Stevo985 Posted July 29, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 29, 2018 4 hours ago, Jareth said: With the news from Nixon that Bruce is not handling transfers you do wonder how long it will be before they draft in a manager they have chosen. Bruce will ned to get the team up and winning pronto. It’s 2018. Managers don’t handle transfers. I’d wager Bruce hasn’t handled transfers since he got here. He’ll be part of the team that decides on transfers and someone else will go out and get it done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, villa89 said: He couldn't do anything last season and he'll have a much worse squad this season so it's impossible to see us achieving anything of note while he's in charge. I could understand this if we had finished mid table but the facts are we finished 4th and in the end got as close to getting promoted as you could with out doing so. I get that some don't like his style of football and there is no argument for me that we fell short last season of what was achievable given the resources we had and the squad Bruce had put together. In the end though whilst we failed it wasn't by much. Doom and gloom was warranted a couple of weeks ago when the club looked up shit creek but now I personally think we should come together and back this club, and that includes the manager for now, as if the squad stays pretty much as it is, with a couple of players coming in and going out, and we retain our best players then we will be well in the mix for promotion. Last season we were without Grealish for half the season and Kodjia for pretty much all of it and if those had been fit all the season I think we'd have been promoted. There will be no Wolves this season running away with things and although Stoke will be strong I think we can be more than a match for the rest. The ball could well be in Bruce's court again as he could well have a squad good enough for promotion. That wasn't an expectation I thought I would be putting on any managers shoulders 10 days ago. He then has to go one step further than he did last year and deliver and despite the reservations some have I think he is capable. Edited July 29, 2018 by markavfc40 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DaveAV1 Posted July 29, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 29, 2018 I don’t think it’s a question of players not being coached or ignoring the system etc. I think that the belief in the system/tactics is quite fragile. I’m not suggesting that the players don’t listen, or don’t believe in Bruce and the coaches, but it’s just that the belief isn’t imbedded in their minds. I think the reason for this is that Steve Bruce isn’t 100% sure of his best approach either. So that when things go well and confidence is high we go on good runs of games. Unfortunately the exact opposite happens when things go a bit pear shaped, and we have a run of poor results. The 3 teams that got promoted didn’t suffer from the same problem of having runs of poor results. They quickly recovered from set backs. One, but not the only reason for this, is that they had a settled style of play that worked for them and they had confidence in. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I could understand this if we had finished mid table but the facts are we finished 4th and in the end got as close to getting promoted as you could with out doing so. I get that some don't like his style of football and there is no argument for me that we fell short last season of what was achievable given the resources we had and the squad Bruce had put together. In the end though whilst we failed it wasn't by much. Doom and gloom was warranted a couple of weeks ago when the club looked up shit creek but now I personally think we should come together and back this club, and that includes the manager for now, as if the squad stays pretty much as it is, with a couple of players coming in and going out, and we retain our best players then we will be well in the mix for promotion. Last season we were without Grealish for half the season and Kodjia for pretty much all of it and if those had been fit all the season I think we'd have been promoted. There will be no Wolves this season running away with things and although Stoke will be strong I think we can be more than a match for the rest. The ball could well be in Bruce's court again as he could well have a squad good enough for promotion. That wasn't an expectation I thought I would be putting on any managers shoulders 10 days ago. He then has to go one step further than he did last year and deliver and despite the reservations some have I think he is capable. I totally get that. However,I have reservations as it is right now, in terms of the team.....I believe we have players capable of promotion and others that are not quite there. I suspect players will come in and I am hoping they fulfill my aspirations to the point that I am as confident as you in mounting another challenge. Things will change for the better,in general, I am just unsure how quick they can realistically take. Edited July 29, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: I don’t think it’s a question of players not being coached or ignoring the system etc. I think that the belief in the system/tactics is quite fragile. I’m not suggesting that the players don’t listen, or don’t believe in Bruce and the coaches, but it’s just that the belief isn’t imbedded in their minds. I think the reason for this is that Steve Bruce isn’t 100% sure of his best approach either. So that when things go well and confidence is high we go on good runs of games. Unfortunately the exact opposite happens when things go a bit pear shaped, and we have a run of poor results. The 3 teams that got promoted didn’t suffer from the same problem of having runs of poor results. They quickly recovered from set backs. One, but not the only reason for this, is that they had a settled style of play that worked for them and they had confidence in. Now that's interesting to me....and most of it, I get. not as sure of the reasons why,......but I dig the rest. Wolves and Cardiff did show a durable side to their play despite their differences in style. Fulham, like us had a poor start, but Mitrovic added that durable edge to their game and the run ensued from there. I think we are close to it.....we just need a couple of the right additions....No 9 in the main and we will be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post markavfc40 Posted July 29, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, TRO said: I totally get that. However,I have reservations as it is right now, in terms of the team.....I believe we have players capable of promotion and others that are not quite there. I suspect players will come in and I am hoping they fulfill my aspirations to the point that I am as confident as you in mounting another challenge. Things will change for the better,in general, I am just unsure how quick they can realistically take. That is probably where we and a few others differ in that I don't think things have to improve for us to get promoted. If things stayed as they were from last season we'd be in with a great shout. From last season of the main players we have lost Johnstone, Terry, Snoddy and Grabban (for a half a season). On the other hand we hopefully get Grealish and Kodjia fit for the whole season and also Green who was out for much of last season and looks more than capable of being a handful for opposing teams at this level. We have also brought in a new keeper and I'd now expect we will also see a couple more come in Whilst we can debate till the cows come home why we fell just short last season be it the players, the manager, the system, fatigue, being too negative the facts are we got with in a whisker of going up. It was so close that for me it isn't really worth going around in circles as to why we did fall short. Edited July 29, 2018 by markavfc40 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 15 minutes ago, TRO said: Now that's interesting to me....and most of it, I get. not as sure of the reasons why,......but I dig the rest. Wolves and Cardiff did show a durable side to their play despite their differences in style. Fulham, like us had a poor start, but Mitrovic added that durable edge to their game and the run ensued from there. I think we are close to it.....we just need a couple of the right additions....No 9 in the main and we will be there. Glad to see your optimism is returning ( genuinely)....you needed at least 4 players the other day now it’s just one ! Up The Villa ! Let The Lion Roar ! Bring It On ! Supercalifragilisticexpialidotious ! Let Loose The Dogs Of War ! Im Ready ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Villa Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: That is probably where we and a few others differ in that I don't think things have to improve for us to get promoted. If things stayed as they were from last season we'd be in with a great shout. From last season of the main players we have lost Johnstone, Terry, Snoddy and Grabban (for a half a season). On the other hand we hopefully get Grealish and Kodjia fit for the whole season and also Green who was out for much of last season and looks more than capable of being a handful for opposing teams at this level. We have also brought in a new keeper and I'd now expect we will also see a couple more come in Whilst we can debate till the cows come home why we fell just short last season be it the players, the manager, the system, fatigue, being too negative the facts are we got with in a whisker of going up. It was so close that for me it isn't really worth going around in circles as to why we did fall short. ^^ Very much this, I know it's a dull, damp afternoon and therefore the perfect time for a VT debate but I equally think we were so close to going up that over analysis will indeed lead to paralysis (to quote the old pun). We have a good core of players, albeit lacking pace (and one or two much older than we'd like) and with no consistent team style but I feel confident that things will come together. That's not a reflection of the manager or any given player, it's simply that we now have owners who know what they're doing. Steve Bruce will get a final chance to deliver, if he fails then he'll be gone. No messing, no doubt, just decisive leadership - I'm not sure we can ask for more than that? Edited July 29, 2018 by Darth Villa Typo fix 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Weirdly I find myself embracing the attitude I couldn't last year - Of Bruce's time to either shit or get off the pot. If we can keep the core of players together we all want and get snodders back we'll be a couple of good loans and a CB away from competing imo. And the relegated clubs, despite their money have got to shake that knack of losing or it will cost them. Good start is a must though and I'm sure Bruce has been made well aware of it. Everyone should be pretty happy if we aren't selling the crown jewels after all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 49 minutes ago, terrytini said: Glad to see your optimism is returning ( genuinely)....you needed at least 4 players the other day now it’s just one ! Up The Villa ! Let The Lion Roar ! Bring It On ! Supercalifragilisticexpialidotious ! Let Loose The Dogs Of War ! Im Ready ! Shakespeare meets Disney in a Villa call to arms. Unstoppable! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Bruce will not get us up and every week he is here is another week that the club is being held back from joining modern football. Fortune favours the brave and we bottled it when we could have got Henry/Bould in. Instead of a season of progress, we have another season of “meh”! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 2 hours ago, TRO said: Now that's interesting to me....and most of it, I get. not as sure of the reasons why,......but I dig the rest. Wolves and Cardiff did show a durable side to their play despite their differences in style. Fulham, like us had a poor start, but Mitrovic added that durable edge to their game and the run ensued from there. I think we are close to it.....we just need a couple of the right additions....No 9 in the main and we will be there. We need a CB too. We’re very thin in central defence. Obviously I don’t include Chris Samba in that statement, he could never be described in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 2 hours ago, terrytini said: Glad to see your optimism is returning ( genuinely)....you needed at least 4 players the other day now it’s just one ! Up The Villa ! Let The Lion Roar ! Bring It On ! Supercalifragilisticexpialidotious ! Let Loose The Dogs Of War ! Im Ready ! I did say a couple Terry, we have already signed a keeper. but with the younger players coming of age anything can happen. but you are right....my optimism is returning. note ......optimism, not expectation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 1 hour ago, DaveAV1 said: We need a CB too. We’re very thin in central defence. Obviously I don’t include Chris Samba in that statement, he could never be described in that way. I agree.....a big powerful one for me....one that loves aerial duels and can double up at corners for.....like Laursen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 5 hours ago, Stevo985 said: It’s 2018. Managers don’t handle transfers. I’d wager Bruce hasn’t handled transfers since he got here. He’ll be part of the team that decides on transfers and someone else will go out and get it done. Agrer with the first sentence mate, can't agree entirely with the second. Bruce may very well have been "part of a team" that decided on transfers, but current speculation suggests he has no imput at all, something i don't believe he is used to, nor will enjoy. If true, i can't see him being here beyond Xmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 29, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, av1 said: Agrer with the first sentence mate, can't agree entirely with the second. Bruce may very well have been "part of a team" that decided on transfers, but current speculation suggests he has no imput at all, something i don't believe he is used to, nor will enjoy. If true, i can't see him being here beyond Xmas. I very much doubt that is true. Obviously happy to be proved wrong. But it would make zero sense. It’d be the first big mistake from the new owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I very much doubt that is true. Obviously happy to be proved wrong. But it would make zero sense. It’d be the first big mistake from the new owners. Whilst not 100% disagreeing with this, it's a model that works for many big clubs both here and across Europe. Edited July 29, 2018 by av1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, macandally said: Bruce will not get us up and every week he is here is another week that the club is being held back from joining modern football. Fortune favours the brave and we bottled it when we could have got Henry/Bould in. Instead of a season of progress, we have another season of “meh”! I can understand not wanting Bruce, but I think we dodged a bullet in the Henry thing. I mean the guy is far less qualified than even OGS. Hiring Thierry Henry wouldn't have just been brave, it would have been positively courageous, in the Yes Prime minister sense of the word. I should add I think Bruce will be gone before the new year anyways. I have no evidence or heard anything, just looking at the numbers. Usually when a club gets new owners they change manager fairly quickly. No reason to think our new owners are going to be any different. They are just in the middle of cleaning up the financial fire at the club. Let them get their feet under the table for a bit and I am sure they will start to look at who they want as manager. Edited July 29, 2018 by ciggiesnbeer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 29, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 29, 2018 51 minutes ago, av1 said: Whilst not 100% disagreeing with this, it's a model that works for many big clubs both here and across Europe. It is, but it's not something that gets introduced at the drop of a hat a few days before the new season, without the proper structure in place. Plus I don't think managers in that setup usually have zero input into the transfers. I'm happy for us to have a DOF style set up, but it needs to be done properly. Retaining Bruce and then changing his working arrangements is a sure fire way to waste a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiltorken Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 @ciggiesnbeer totally agree, especially the Yes Prime minister reference. Hopefully Bruce hits the ground running this season though, capitalise on and continue the feel good factor around the club at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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