Steve Bruce

[TRO]

26 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Well you can have your opinion, I’ve tried to calmly set out what lies behind mine. As I said I’m aware it’s not a widely held view, but it’s my view.

 I was against us sacking RDM after 11 games as I thought the case against him was unproven....I thought at times we played some very good football....but... I saw a fair bit of fragile, characterless, shambolic  football though, so I can se why he was sacked

If Bruce is sacked I will see why, but as I say I have those reasons why I’d take a different view.

thats more than reasonable, except I was not privvy to what was going on behind the scenes, but that aside, I can concur with you.

[Villarocker]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

I think we should stick with him, but on the criteria you’ve mentioned no Manager could be sacked mid season surely ?

I'm saying that it's gone too far to change Bruce now. Sacking him mid season was maybe a possibility at one stage and who knows what that would have meant for us? We could be top two now if we had parted company with him. On the flip side, we may have dropped out of the play-offs. 

[Guest av1]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

Thats your view, but let me be sure you are viewing it as to how I really see it.

I think a manager is the most important person in a football club.....and the most significant.

However, I have a different view to you in HOW much he can influence a game that is in play.....that is not to say he can't influence it at all.

For my sins.....I see a managers major influence over a given period of time....Set the tone, to organise the discipline and create the format of play.....I see a managers influence dilute in a game when they cross that line, they just hope the tuition has registered .....  in relation to a players desire, His energy level or will to win, He cannot make them fight for the ball or make them chase lost causes or close down opponents, he can only encourage them to do so or take them off.

However, I understand the notion that they are ultimately responsible for achieving targets.

I do not share your view on the day, I think you over estimate that.

Let me give you an example of my position.

• When Ron Saunders left Villa....He said " this team will run itself for 12 months, such was his confidence in how the footballing side of the club had been set up, that meant he wasn't there during our finest 90 odd minutes.
• When Gary Neville was interviewed recently and asked what did SAF say typically before a game, he said " On many occasions he said nothing, He just left us to it.....He also said on another occasion when asked did you blame the manager after a defeat he said " Never, we just blamed ourselves"

Now, I am not trying to influence anyone in to my thinking,they have their own thoughts, just trying to explain where some of my thoughts come from....its not exclusive, but just a taster

 

 

 

Our biggest problem is that we don't have a style of play, thats why we look like headless chickens when a couple of players are out of form.  

By your own admission that is on Bruce. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

In my view the fact that an awful lot of people ( including yourself !) have changed their opinion of Bruce at least once is 

( a) perfectly normal in football, 

and (b) a strong indicator that he hasn’t convinced, yet has also done ok. Why wouldn’t peoples posts reflect that ? I’ve changed my mind on him about 4 times ( and have been in favour for a few months, and still am) but I’m not nutcase villager with a torch. For the most part, neither is anyone else.

I think I have already chastised myself on here for over reacting during December.....but I accept, its everyones choice to do as they please.

I am much more pissed off with our recent capitulation than maybe I am expressing, but trying to focus on why......thats probably where we differ.

However, I am not saying I know the answer, with any conviction, just speculating like the rest.

[DCJonah]

25 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Aye, but I've had it twice in a row from the same source on different subjects, it's a pattern of goading behaviour and it's entirely the stuff of playgrounds. 

Its in response to your petty posts towards those who have held and expressed a different opinion to yours. They made me laugh, hence use of a laughing emoji. 

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, av1 said:

Our biggest problem is that we don't have a style of play, thats why we look like headless chickens when a couple of players are out of form.  

By your own admission that is on Bruce. 

I see a team that sets up 4-3-3 or 4-1-4-1 or 4-5-1.....on occasions it morphs, between them all.

depending how the dynamics of the game are being played out and the strength of the oppositions play.

More often than not.....I see 2 wingers that are central to our attacking format with 3 central midfielders......2 full backs, 2 central defenders and a striker.

• One operating as a DM
• One recycling the ball in midfield and supporting the offence, possibly, box to box
• One taking up the offensive role and supporting the wingers.

Other than all of that, I'm not sure what is specifically meant.....I think every team has a style of some sort.

What I also see at times is certain players not dominating their position and other players coming to the rescue e.g just recently Jack playing way too deep.....The knock on effect of that is leaving gaps in our gameplan and helping to pull it asunder

Steve Bruce has to be responsible.....whether the players are inconsistent, not good enough or have lost form.....but some things can't always be fixed on the day or night.

Edited April 8, 2018 by TRO

[Jareth]

Just now, DCJonah said:

Its in response to your petty posts towards those who have held and expressed a different opinion to yours. They made me laugh, hence use of a laughing emoji. 

Glad you acknowledge what you're doing. My 7 year old knows better. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

The only bright point of Saturday was I bumped into Sir Brian before the game and exchanged a few words. My idol when I was 10 years old and through the 70’s.

I don’t think as our Manager he got caught between two stools, I always thought we played good attacking football. And it really aggravates me to hear people talk as if Pep invented three at the back in the Premier League !!

 

Terry, I thought you might have asked him his view of the job SB has done?....is doing.

Edited April 8, 2018 by TRO

[DCJonah]

10 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Glad you acknowledge what you're doing. My 7 year old knows better. 

Haha what? 

I found it funny, i expressed that with the use of a function of the forum designed to express such a thought. 

Goodnight. 

[Jareth]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

Haha what? 

I found it funny, i expressed that with the use of a function of the forum designed to express such a thought. 

Goodnight. 

Why off to bed? It's Easter hols, school's shut tomorrow. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Eastie said:

I agree but maybe going up means out the door too? 

Certainly seems he’s not been told he will here  if we are promoted  and wyness refused to answer that question too .

Well, has that had any affect on us?

[terrytini]

24 minutes ago, TRO said:

Terry, I thought you might have asked him his view of the job SB has done?....is doing.

There’s only one way he could answer that though....... and I didn’t want to detain him ! ..thanked him for the memories, .mentioned my earliest memory of him, (his goal in the rain against Torquay), and the Cardiff game the night before how he’d been up yelling at the TV .

At that point, two hours before kick off, the world felt just right.........

[srsmithusa]

6 hours ago, TRO said:

So ....you be specific.....

people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

do you just change your opinion after ever reversal and keep your powder dry when we win?

I don't really understand your beef.

TBF TRO. I have complained about performance flaws after wins and been told to “give it a rest” and that I should learn to enjoy life.    So it’s wrong to complain after win’s, and is someone complain’s after loses they’re only looking at match by match, not over the season.  I see one thread. Complaining about the magic Bruce will get criticized, sometimes by the Bruce himself

it’s not fair of me to address this to you.  You are generally quite reasonable (no matter how wrong you are  ).  But it does get tiring on this side to have complaints greet opposition not on their merit but on their timing, no matter what that timing may be.  

[ciggiesnbeer]

Right so the conclusion of the thread is Bruce should be judged on results, but his results are also meaningless or misleading. 

Bizarre.

[sheepyvillian]

6 hours ago, TRO said:

Thats your view, but let me be sure you are viewing it as to how I really see it.

I think a manager is the most important person in a football club.....and the most significant.

However, I have a different view to you in HOW much he can influence a game that is in play.....that is not to say he can't influence it at all.

For my sins.....I see a managers major influence over a given period of time....Set the tone, to organise the discipline and create the format of play.....I see a managers influence dilute in a game when they cross that line, they just hope the tuition has registered .....  in relation to a players desire, His energy level or will to win, He cannot make them fight for the ball or make them chase lost causes or close down opponents, he can only encourage them to do so or take them off.

However, I understand the notion that they are ultimately responsible for achieving targets.

I do not share your view on the day, I think you over estimate that.

Let me give you an example of my position.

• When Ron Saunders left Villa....He said " this team will run itself for 12 months, such was his confidence in how the footballing side of the club had been set up, that meant he wasn't there during our finest 90 odd minutes.
• When Gary Neville was interviewed recently and asked what did SAF say typically before a game, he said " On many occasions he said nothing, He just left us to it.....He also said on another occasion when asked did you blame the manager after a defeat he said " Never, we just blamed ourselves"

Now, I am not trying to influence anyone in to my thinking,they have their own thoughts, just trying to explain where some of my thoughts come from....its not exclusive, but just a taster

 

 

 

Ron Saunders may of said that , but he had done what Bruce hasn't, and that is to motivate his players to give ,in his word's, 110% every game, otherwise if they failed to give that regardless of a player's talent, he would find himself out the side, hence the selling of Gidman,one of the finest right backs I've had the privilege of watching,and Andy Gray, who could ever forget him ? Gray questioned the manager's  training methods, can't be easy running up and down the grass banks of Bodymore Heath at ten in the morning, especially when you've danced the night before  away at Holy City Zoo. For all the talent those two players possessed it didn't compensate for their disdain for discipline, as far as Saunders was concerned they weren't team orientated , they were more for themselves , in his view, so off they went to the disenchantment of many a Villa fan, but history showed it was the right decision. My point is that Saunders himself was responsible for instilling that work ethic. A manager doesn't have to say a lot when his team is successful, it takes care of itself, but the manager is responsible for instilling that belief. I don't see Steve Bruce having that managerial ability, and ultimately that will be his downfall, he lacks that special something that the really good managers have, and that is what we require most of all . A manager with that special something. And, trust me, he's out there somewhere. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by sheepyvillian

[sheepyvillian]

On 07/04/2018 at 18:11, Eastie said:

More chance of mick McCarthy being here next season than Brendan  Rodgers .

wouldn't be surprised to see Bruce at the Albion .

No one does dour like Mick McCarthy, so please, not him,ever.

I wouldn't mind Brendan though. Good old Catholic boy, who likes his teams to play good football. Be nice to see some of that down Villa park.

[Vincenzo]

What has happened since the Wolves game? We looked the real deal that night! It’s as though they thought we’d won promotion after that victory

Since then, quite frankly they’ve bottled it imo. We’ve relied too much on flashes of brilliance from different players rather than playing as a team for most of this season

After this season, no matter what, the club should be planning a long term football strategy with Dean Smith as manager. Move quickly before the baggies snap him up

UTV!

[TRO]

8 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

Ron Saunders may of said that , but he had done what Bruce hasn't, and that is to motivate his players to give ,in his word's, 110% every game, otherwise if they failed to give that regardless of a player's talent, he would find himself out the side, hence the selling of Gidman,one of the finest right backs I've had the privilege of watching,and Andy Gray, who could ever forget him ? Gray questioned the manager's  training methods, can't be easy running up and down the grass banks of Bodymore Heath at ten in the morning, especially when you've danced the night before  away at Holy City Zoo. For all the talent those two players possessed it didn't compensate for their disdain for discipline, as far as Saunders was concerned they weren't team orientated , they were more for themselves , in his view, so off they went to the disenchantment of many a Villa fan, but history showed it was the right decision. My point is that Saunders himself was responsible for instilling that work ethic. A manager doesn't have to say a lot when his team is successful, it takes care of itself, but the manager is responsible for instilling that belief. I don't see Steve Bruce having that managerial ability, and ultimately that will be his downfall, he lacks that special something that the really good managers have, and that is what we require most of all . A manager with that special something. And, trust me, he's out there somewhere. 

sorry to digress and go off topic, but that is not true about Andy Gray, he had an issue with injections, but not Rons training methods......and its not why he left.

Selfish.....its subjective, but you could be right.

you are right about the work ethic, but if you remember he had derisory remarks made about that at the time......He was called a Dinosaur too by those that wallowed in the pure football of Ipswich.

There is not that much new in football it all gets recycled.....I guess the pace of the game is the main thing.

[TRO]

13 hours ago, terrytini said:

There’s only one way he could answer that though....... and I didn’t want to detain him ! ..thanked him for the memories, .mentioned my earliest memory of him, (his goal in the rain against Torquay), and the Cardiff game the night before how he’d been up yelling at the TV .

At that point, two hours before kick off, the world felt just right.........

I went to a sports forum once with him at the top table, it was at the villa leisure centre.i was in the front row.

The  Fiesty crowd challenged him quite vociferously for signing Curcic and the questions were getting very pointed......I put my hand up to speak.....I got up and turned around and faced the crowd.....I said " stand up the man who wouldn't have signed Sasa Curcic.....I was expecting tomatoes to be thrown at me or a few pints, but instead i was met with a stoney few seconds of silence, before a raptuous applause, much to my surprise.....when I sat down, Brian said " Thanks mate"......He resigned that week IIRC, not because of that obviously.

I will defend any manager if i think the criticism is unfair......or player for that matter.

I think Steve Bruce gets things wrong, like any manager does.....and the next manager, will have the critics, similar to what happens now.....unless we win every game and we know the chances of that.

[sheepyvillian]

51 minutes ago, TRO said:

sorry to digress and go off topic, but that is not true about Andy Gray, he had an issue with injections, but not Rons training methods......and its not why he left.

Selfish.....its subjective, but you could be right.

you are right about the work ethic, but if you remember he had derisory remarks made about that at the time......He was called a Dinosaur too by those that wallowed in the pure football of Ipswich.

There is not that much new in football it all gets recycled.....I guess the pace of the game is the main thing.

My point was, that Saunders was responsible for instilling that work ethic. That was his imprint stamped on the team. His players were always motivated, because if they wasn't questions would of been asked of him, why ? Because at the end of the day, no matter how you slice it up, the buck stops with the manager, and there can be no excuses for players not being up for it.