Steve Bruce

[Villarocker]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

The season.

Every manager says it's a results business and that's why opinions probably fluctuate from game to game mate, imo. One week he's a Messiah for beating a top team and then when the team fail to win at a bottom team, he's a bottler. 

As you say though, overall, at this stage, Bruce needs to be judged on the result of this season. Promotion is the only way he will have a chance of being here next season. Failure to get us up and I'm sure he himself will be expecting his P45 within a few days of that failure. 

[DCJonah]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

To be honest mate, i have no intention in answering this, because all you are intent in doing is picking flies and creating a case against him.....but i will make a deal with you.

you pick out a few managers of ours in the past that you think where we have had a gameplan and I will tell you what our gameplan is now.

don't keep making negative comments and offer no positives....its cheap.

 

Haha i knew you wouldn't. 

It seems to be your new way of dismissing anyone who criticises the manager. 

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

So ....you be specific.....

people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

do you just change your opinion after ever reversal and keep your powder dry when we win?

I don't really understand your beef.

My opinion changes based on what I see and linked to the goal for the season. 

[TRO]

18 minutes ago, Dave J said:

20 odd years with a yield of 4 promotions I wouldn't think this is too much to hang your hat on. For me I don't think he has ever been capable - I have supported him in recent weeks and will continue to do so but I don't think he will ever be the right man.

Fine

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

My opinion changes based on what I see and linked to the goal for the season. 

But your opinion, just like mine is an interpretation of what you see, not what you know.

you ,like me ,are not privvy to the workings of BMH and what work he does with the players.....He may do everything right according to the coaching manuals.....but the players, for whatever reason have not responded.....thats just my guess.

I am not sure what you mean by the goal of the season, not sure the context.....but let me draw you in to what i saw......I saw 1 maybe 2 of our players "standing off" Josh Murphy and if you do that with professional footballers, they are always liable to do that.

The fact that we did  stand off him and his perfect delivery, results in possibly the goal of the season.

For me, I have no blame towards the manager of that scenario alone.......He employs them to do their job.

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

26 minutes ago, villarocker said:

Every manager says it's a results business and that's why opinions probably fluctuate from game to game mate, imo. One week he's a Messiah for beating a top team and then when the team fail to win at a bottom team, he's a bottler. 

As you say though, overall, at this stage, Bruce needs to be judged on the result of this season. Promotion is the only way he will have a chance of being here next season. Failure to get us up and I'm sure he himself will be expecting his P45 within a few days of that failure. 

Yeah VR, i accept that.

It is a results business, but that does not excuse us from attempting to make sensible assessments of situations.....given our limited intel.

As for a messiah one minute and a bottler the next.....please excuse me from that debate.....its simply too juvenile.

I have no idea what his ultimate fate will be, or the next manager, or the next.

Edited April 8, 2018 by TRO

[Jareth]

If I'll remember Bruce for anything, it is for calling some fan reaction 'hysterical', he keeps getting proved right. 

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Haha i knew you wouldn't. 

It seems to be your new way of dismissing anyone who criticises the manager. 

I am not dismissing anything.......don't be too quick to claim the moral high ground I offered you a deal to encourage you to join in a positive debate.....not just a slagging session......you seem intent in just challenging me for what you see as idly defending the manager......I have said many times on here, i will not defend him unconditionally, but if folk write stuff, i disagree with, i will challenge it.

you are understandably miffed at the way our team has conducted itself in a promotion run in........I 'll let you in to a secret.....so am I.

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

So in the space of a few weeks.....he shows him self to be not capable.

so 20 odd years of football management is concentrated in to a couple of weeks.

Dave.......give me a break.

if you tell me, he has bought the wrong players, i would listen.....but to suggest he can iinfluence a game to the degree you imply, sorry mate....i don't buy that.

why did Pepe's team who should have scored a hatful of goals, succumb to Man Utd and end up losing.......Imo you are completely overrating the ability of any manager to control a given match.....they all rely on their players.

I agree he is a capable Manager.

But in my view you massively underestimate the effect to which a Manager influences things ( whilst, oddly, maintaining that changing one is risky ?).

To use your own example, if the contribution of the Manager is so overrated why do Man City need Pepe ? As they certainly have the best players why not just employ one of us on £50 a week ?

And I don’t understand the logic of your last paragraph at all ? You seem to be ignoring the contribution of BOTH Managers, which would explain the question you pose, namely the reason Pepes Team DIDNT score a hatful of goals ( which were likely because of HIS management) is that United are managed by another terrific Manager who was able to alter the outcome due to HIS talent.

Managers are the single most important contributor to a Clubs success, ahead of budget, ahead of strikers, and certainly ahead of the generality of “ players”.

What happened to Aberdeen and United after Fergie ? Leeds after Revie ? What happened to us after Sir Ron ? In a different way ( because it’s horses for courses, which is why Bruce can both be a capable Manager yet underperform here) what happened to Bolton after Fat SAM.

 

 

[DCJonah]

21 minutes ago, TRO said:

But your opinion, just like mine is an interpretation of what you see, not what you know.

you ,like me ,are not privvy to the workings of BMH and what work he does with the players.....He may do everything right according to the coaching manuals.....but the players, for whatever reason have not responded.....thats just my guess.

I am not sure what you mean by the goal of the season, not sure the context.....but let me draw you in to what i saw......I saw 1 maybe 2 of our players "standing off" Josh Murphy and if you do that with professional footballers, they are always liable to do that.

The fact that we did  stand off him and his perfect delivery, results in possibly the goal of the season.

For me, I have no blame towards the manager of that scenario alone.......He employs them to do their job.

 

Well then that's poor management surely. If you can't get the players to carry out your instructions that is a problem. 

By goal i mean our target of promotion, my opinion of bruce has changed during the season because of this. 

[Dave J]

36 minutes ago, TRO said:

To be honest mate, i have no intention in answering this, because all you are intent in doing is picking flies and creating a case against him.....but i will make a deal with you.

you pick out a few managers of ours in the past that you think where we have had a gameplan and I will tell you what our gameplan is now.

don't keep making negative comments and offer no positives....its cheap.

 

Ron Saunders  - flair & pace aligned with 110%

Big Ron - wonderful passing football 

 Brian - caught between two stools attack/defend.

Gregory - just don't lose - anything else is a bonus 

MON - counter attack 

Houllier over complicated the game ( but at least saw through Gabby )

Lambert - went into his shell - the job was too big - too soon.

Bruce ? You tell me 

[DCJonah]

6 minutes ago, Jareth said:

If I'll remember Bruce for anything, it is for calling some fan reaction 'hysterical', he keeps getting proved right. 

Course he does. 

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

You obviously have not gleaned the true intent of my posts.

I refuse to jump from game to game and have a specific opinion on his career or management abilitity based on results.

ps ask me if there is anything i think he has done wrong and i will tell you.....but most of the criticism is rubbish.

Most of the criticism is rubbish ? 

Im increasingly surprised at your reputation as a moderate voice !

[terrytini]

56 minutes ago, TRO said:

The season.....and improvement.

I distinctly recall you wanting rid of RDM after 11 games ?

[mikeyp102]

3 hours ago, Eastie said:

What kind of message does it send for the manager to claim he’s not given his future any  thought ? 

‘Maybe the fact they haven’t even discussed next season with him would set alarm bells ringing in his head ? 

Your future

“I’ve never given it a thought.

“Obviously it helps me if we go up.

“If we don’t, that’s for others to decide.

“I hope they think that we’re on the right track and let’s have another go, but I really don’t know.”

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-premier-league-excites-14501508#ICID=ios_BMNewsApp_AppShare_Click_Other

I think Bruce knows his target was always promotion. Not going up this season  has always meant he’d be out the door.

[terrytini]

45 minutes ago, TRO said:

So ....you be specific.....

people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

do you just change your opinion after ever reversal and keep your powder dry when we win?

I don't really understand your beef.

In my view the fact that an awful lot of people ( including yourself !) have changed their opinion of Bruce at least once is 

( a) perfectly normal in football, 

and (b) a strong indicator that he hasn’t convinced, yet has also done ok. Why wouldn’t peoples posts reflect that ? I’ve changed my mind on him about 4 times ( and have been in favour for a few months, and still am) but I’m not nutcase villager with a torch. For the most part, neither is anyone else.

[Eastie]

5 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

I think Bruce knows his target was always promotion. Not going up this season  has always meant he’d be out the door.

I agree but maybe going up means out the door too? 

Certainly seems he’s not been told he will here  if we are promoted  and wyness refused to answer that question too .

Edited April 8, 2018 by Eastie

[terrytini]

47 minutes ago, villarocker said:

Every manager says it's a results business and that's why opinions probably fluctuate from game to game mate, imo. One week he's a Messiah for beating a top team and then when the team fail to win at a bottom team, he's a bottler. 

As you say though, overall, at this stage, Bruce needs to be judged on the result of this season. Promotion is the only way he will have a chance of being here next season. Failure to get us up and I'm sure he himself will be expecting his P45 within a few days of that failure. 

I think we should stick with him, but on the criteria you’ve mentioned no Manager could be sacked mid season surely ?

[Eastie]

1 minute ago, terrytini said:

In my view the fact that an awful lot of people ( including yourself !) have changed their opinion of Bruce at least once is 

( a) perfectly normal in football, 

and (b) a strong indicator that he hasn’t convinced, yet has also done ok. Why wouldn’t peoples posts reflect that ? I’ve changed my mind on him about 4 times ( and have been in favour for a few months, and still am) but I’m not nutcase villager with a torch. For the most part, neither is anyone else.

I’ve changed my mind too several times based on performances and results which is surely what a manager is judged on .

[sheepyvillian]

29 minutes ago, TRO said:

But your opinion, just like mine is an interpretation of what you see, not what you know.

you ,like me ,are not privvy to the workings of BMH and what work he does with the players.....He may do everything right according to the coaching manuals.....but the players, for whatever reason have not responded.....thats just my guess.

I am not sure what you mean by the goal of the season, not sure the context.....but let me draw you in to what i saw......I saw 1 maybe 2 of our players "standing off" Josh Murphy and if you do that with professional footballers, they are always liable to do that.

The fact that we did  stand off him and his perfect delivery, results in possibly the goal of the season.

For me, I have no blame towards the manager of that scenario alone.......He employs them to do their job.

 

Maybe it's a question of motivation, which he his also responsible for. You don't achieve anything in football just for being a nice man.