AvfcRigo82 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 28 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I'm not sure at all. I just think getting a new manager in and changing the way we play could take time. Time we do not have. Whereas with Bruce we have slightly found a way to win enough games to keep in contention so I'm praying it will be enough. If we sack him now and gamble on another manager I'd be more than upbeat about it. But we all know that isn't going to happen no matter how often we repeat posts about how shit Bruce is. On that note I've spent far too much to time repeating the same thing on this thread. So I'll leave that to you guys until the club does something to change it. Only if the right appointment is made, otherwise yes. I agree and as much as I don't want him here and disagree with his style and negative play etc. sacking him to be replaced with a sideways or worse choice would be my fear, - if a better manager where at the ready who could continue and improve then absolutely. For now I think it is a better the devil you know rather than playing devils advocate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 49 minutes ago, VillaChris said: I can only think how SB would approach a similar game... Actually we know how, Spurs last year was a prime example. I believe the goal was not to concede too much that it'd look ugly, cus it's okay to loose, being the lesser team and all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 21 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: You know he scraped relegation. Wagner did too. It takes time for even good managers to get their ideas across. Sometimes it can get worse before it gets better. By all means the club can sack Bruce now and in the long term it could really benefit us. But if people think it will improve our chances this season then they would probably be disappointed. Yes I know all that, let's remember SB also has had a terrible run like them starting from this point last year. The point is when you see Bristol play like that (and in most of the championship games) you realise how shortchanged we are by SB's tactics of continually setting us out to keep it tight and nick a goal and then maybe another in the second half. It seems we can only play in a dominating manner against bottom 6 teams like Barnsley and Burton. As we see in our continual struggle to beat the teams around us you need more in your approach to get promoted. I just wish we could train all week in the manner of being on the front foot and then come out and play like that from the first minute on a matchday. Is that really too much to ask? Instead we have mind numbing games when even shots on target are hard work. I've been broadly positive this season on our prospects but stopping winning and playing negatively just when top 2 was in sight isn't a good sign imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 18 minutes ago, 7392craig said: I do agree with you that those players could and should be playing with a more attacking mindset. My point is that you'd be asking too much of any manager to change much in terms of a style and make it successful in half a season. If you want to change Bruce now then I get it, but you're then looking at promotion more than likely next season. I do think that Bruce could get us up, but I do admit it wouldn't be pretty. However if we don't go up then I know he has to go. I also think that if we do go up, I wouldn't be apposed to bringing in a new manager straight away. It's harsh but it's been done before. My point of changing now is two fold. Yes, it‘s a BIG ask to change the way a team plays. BUT! With this squad of players, there has been signs that we can play football if and when we‘ve tried. (I’ll start from the back) 1 - If we play out from the back with our MF having more movement off the ball we could pass and move a little better. 2 - If our MF is a little more mobile and creative the whole team could push up the field. 3 - playing players in their best positions and with more licence to „have a go“ be that carrying, pass and move, running on to balls or through channels. Thats achievable through training and I believe we have the players with enough ability to have a good go. However, my Major reason for thinking a change in approach would be possible in a short time is. The players I believe, SJ Chester Terry Jedi Snod Lansbury Hourihane Adomah Hogan Davis & Kodjia really would break their Balls to give it one almighty push for 2nd with the reward of PL football next season. No-one would question Huttons desire and commitment, Taylors steady-eddy approach. So a new manager would have more than a core to build a team with. Add the ability of Grealish, Onomah, O’Hare, Green and maybe 1 or 2 new faces (ffp permitting) and the challenge should definately be more than enough motivation for players manager & fans. Add the Home & AWAY support from Villa fans and no teams other than Wolves or a Warnock team would feel they can take us on. If it all failed, we‘d have the comfort of a headstart for next season whoever stays or goes. Keeping Bruce till he fails, then looking for a new manager sometime in April/May would mean starting completely from scratch next season. Next season will be hard enough as it is as we‘ll be looking at 3 from the likes of Swansea, CP, WBA, Toon, Stoke, Bournemouth hoping to return to PL plus our own squad overhaul on a lesser budget 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: My point of changing now is two fold. Yes, it‘s a BIG ask to change the way a team plays. BUT! With this squad of players, there has been signs that we can play football if and when we‘ve tried. (I’ll start from the back) 1 - If we play out from the back with our MF having more movement off the ball we could pass and move a little better. 2 - If our MF is a little more mobile and creative the whole team could push up the field. 3 - playing players in their best positions and with more licence to „have a go“ be that carrying, pass and move, running on to balls or through channels. Thats achievable through training and I believe we have the players with enough ability to have a good go. However, my Major reason for thinking a change in approach would be possible in a short time is. The players I believe, SJ Chester Terry Jedi Snod Lansbury Hourihane Adomah Hogan Davis & Kodjia really would break their Balls to give it one almighty push for 2nd with the reward of PL football next season. No-one would question Huttons desire and commitment, Taylors steady-eddy approach. So a new manager would have more than a core to build a team with. Add the ability of Grealish, Onomah, O’Hare, Green and maybe 1 or 2 new faces (ffp permitting) and the challenge should definately be more than enough motivation for players manager & fans. Add the Home & AWAY support from Villa fans and no teams other than Wolves or a Warnock team would feel they can take us on. If it all failed, we‘d have the comfort of a headstart for next season whoever stays or goes. Keeping Bruce till he fails, then looking for a new manager sometime in April/May would mean starting completely from scratch next season. Next season will be hard enough as it is as we‘ll be looking at 3 from the likes of Swansea, CP, WBA, Toon, Stoke, Bournemouth hoping to return to PL plus our own squad overhaul on a lesser budget If we had a manager that got us passing the ball then Hogan and even Mccormack may find the form that got us to buy them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 hour ago, 7392craig said: I don't think us being Aston villa makes much of a difference in the way things work in this league. We might be Aston Villa but we're Aston Villa in the championship with a Championship level squad. The teams you mention doing it the 'right' way all spent several seasons in the lower leagues. Saints in particular going all the way down before they climbed back up. The fact is that while many people don't like the way we play, it's either going up that way or not at all. Because none of the managers available to us will perform miracles or implement a style of football in half a season. HUGE and unprovable assumption. Here’s an equally valid and equally unprovable assumption. “It’s not going to happen with Bruce this season. So we might as well start the rebuild early and give a new manager the January window. We might even get lucky and make it up through playoffs this year!” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 minute ago, dn1982 said: If we had a manager that got us passing the ball then Hogan and even Mccormack may find the form that got us to buy them. That possibilty begs the questions 1 - is it worth that gamble alone? compensating Bruce with no budget to buy = effectively 2 „new players“ in Hogan and McC 2 - if a said someone could get half a tune out of those 2, what would he be able to get out of (more effectively than Bruce has) Bree, RDL, Elmo, Snod, Lansbury Onomah, Hourihane, Grealish & O‘Hare? Maybe Whelan & Jedi‘s levels could also improve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 I only see positive things possible with the removal of Bruce. Both Short, medium & long term. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, VillaChris said: Yes I know all that, let's remember SB also has had a terrible run like them starting from this point last year. The point is when you see Bristol play like that (and in most of the championship games) you realise how shortchanged we are by SB's tactics of continually setting us out to keep it tight and nick a goal and then maybe another in the second half. It seems we can only play in a dominating manner against bottom 6 teams like Barnsley and Burton. As we see in our continual struggle to beat the teams around us you need more in your approach to get promoted. I just wish we could train all week in the manner of being on the front foot and then come out and play like that from the first minute on a matchday. Is that really too much to ask? Instead we have mind numbing games when even shots on target are hard work. I've been broadly positive this season on our prospects but stopping winning and playing negatively just when top 2 was in sight isn't a good sign imo. Yep as I said it takes time for good managers to get their ideas across. Unfortunately we didn't get one that was as good as those managing clubs around him. We all share your frustration my friend. Edited December 21, 2017 by Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Swansea sack Clement. Go go go get him. They sell their best player and results suffer accordingly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 36 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Swansea sack Clement. Go go go get him. They sell their best player and results suffer accordingly No thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Well it will be very interesting now 1 - Will they approach Bruce? 2 - Who will they go for? 3 - IF they do appoint someone of either repute or a progressive style would that Manager have been interested in us, given the direct choice. Swansea = Relegation candidates PL->Ch over Aston Villa = Promotion candidates Ch->PL ???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 I would not be suprised if Swansea go for Johnson after last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 9 hours ago, Grasshopper said: My point of changing now is two fold. Yes, it‘s a BIG ask to change the way a team plays. BUT! With this squad of players, there has been signs that we can play football if and when we‘ve tried. (I’ll start from the back) 1 - If we play out from the back with our MF having more movement off the ball we could pass and move a little better. 2 - If our MF is a little more mobile and creative the whole team could push up the field. 3 - playing players in their best positions and with more licence to „have a go“ be that carrying, pass and move, running on to balls or through channels. Thats achievable through training and I believe we have the players with enough ability to have a good go. However, my Major reason for thinking a change in approach would be possible in a short time is. The players I believe, SJ Chester Terry Jedi Snod Lansbury Hourihane Adomah Hogan Davis & Kodjia really would break their Balls to give it one almighty push for 2nd with the reward of PL football next season. No-one would question Huttons desire and commitment, Taylors steady-eddy approach. So a new manager would have more than a core to build a team with. Add the ability of Grealish, Onomah, O’Hare, Green and maybe 1 or 2 new faces (ffp permitting) and the challenge should definately be more than enough motivation for players manager & fans. Add the Home & AWAY support from Villa fans and no teams other than Wolves or a Warnock team would feel they can take us on. If it all failed, we‘d have the comfort of a headstart for next season whoever stays or goes. Keeping Bruce till he fails, then looking for a new manager sometime in April/May would mean starting completely from scratch next season. Next season will be hard enough as it is as we‘ll be looking at 3 from the likes of Swansea, CP, WBA, Toon, Stoke, Bournemouth hoping to return to PL plus our own squad overhaul on a lesser budget Surley that depends on who we appoint. Lets say we appoint Dean Smith - and he doesn't get us promoted and does average - Going into 2018/19 with Dean Smith doesn't represent a brave new world for me - so by making a hasty appointment now we could effectively write off next season as well. Give it until the end of the season then we have a larger pool of managers to choose from - more chance of getting it right going into 2018/19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Grasshopper said: Well it will be very interesting now 1 - Will they approach Bruce? 2 - Who will they go for? 3 - IF they do appoint someone of either repute or a progressive style would that Manager have been interested in us, given the direct choice. Swansea = Relegation candidates PL->Ch over Aston Villa = Promotion candidates Ch->PL ???????? It will be Pullis won't it ? Why would they go for Bruce when the master of relegation battles is available for free ? Clement not so long was muted as the progressive type, which is fast becoming the kiss of death for managers , it was Jovanic and Jaap Stam in September ! Edited December 21, 2017 by hippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 13 minutes ago, hippo said: It will be Pullis won't it ? Why would they go for Bruce when the master of relegation battles is available for free ? Clement not so long was muted as the progressive type, which is fast becoming the kiss of death for managers , it was Jovanic and Jaap Stam in September ! Yeah it will be Pulis you can see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 20 minutes ago, hippo said: Surley that depends on who we appoint. Lets say we appoint Dean Smith - and he doesn't get us promoted and does average - Going into 2018/19 with Dean Smith doesn't represent a brave new world for me - so by making a hasty appointment now we could effectively write off next season as well. Give it until the end of the season then we have a larger pool of managers to choose from - more chance of getting it right going into 2018/19 But then surely it will be a case of right manager in.. but then he only has half a squad and no real money to build a new one with.. Catch 22 really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Yeah it will be Pulis you can see it Yeah I think so too myself. No doubt Giggs will be menetioned ... again too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: But then surely it will be a case of right manager in.. but then he only has half a squad and no real money to build a new one with.. Catch 22 really. Agreed. Its not a certainty but we have more chance of getting that right manager in June next year - rather than late December. (now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, hippo said: Agreed. Its not a certainty but we have more chance of getting that right manager in June next year - rather than late December. (now) With very little funds due to FFP I do not see hoe it is more attractive considering half of the squad will have gone too. We need to act soon if results do not improve or we are definately another Boro/Leeds/Coventry/Forest waiting to happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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