Steve Bruce

[AvfcRigo82]

9 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

@Grasshopper would rather have Dr Venglos in charge with a coaching staff of Mcleish, Sherwood and Garde with Rene Higuita as Goalkeeping coach 

Don't forget Robert Duverne 

[Vive_La_Villa]

28 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Don't forget Robert Duverne 

Nah as fitness coach he would rather have this guy:

[Stevo985]

37 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Now you're just being silly.

Maybe I’ve misunderstood what you meant in your OP. I’ll assume I have and leave it there because why you’re suggesting is nonsense IMO. 

[Grasshopper]

Just for a bit of clarity in this thread.

No avoiding the question

deflecting tactics

irrelevant stats used to back up arguements for arguements sake

views changing which ever way the wind blow

Here‘s my stance

BRUCE OUT

[Vive_La_Villa]

6 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

Just for a bit of clarity in this thread.

No avoiding the question

deflecting tactics

irrelevant stats used to back up arguements for arguements sake

views changing which ever way the wind blow

Here‘s my stance

BRUCE OUT

Cheers for clarifying that. Some of us where a little unsure on how you really felt

[Vive_La_Villa]

10 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

No money left to spend until June (if we are promoted).

Question is that of someones calibre as Rafa's and the squad that we have.. I don't think he would need to spend at all as I believe he would get a lot more out of this squad what Bruce has and ever will.

However, I do not think someone like Rowett or D Smith would have the same impact as what Rafa would.

As stated, the expectation and pressure alone would not be fair on Rowett or Smith.

Someone like Benithez would cope with the pressure.

I would rather act now than say 5 months when it is too late.

What is to say that we don't make promotion or the playoffs even and then Bruce resigned and pissed off in June anyway..

Leaves us with no squad hardly, no money and a big **** mess in this league.

You think we have problems now.. think of the shit we would be in if that where to happen RE: Bruce just resigning after he has failed and leaves us in more shit than he found us.

I will give him until Jan 1st to improve results but if it has not improved then something needs to be done and quickly.

Are you suggestion that sacking Bruce now and replacing him could lead to promotion this season? 

[AvfcRigo82]

11 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Are you suggestion that sacking Bruce now and replacing him could lead to promotion this season? 

Providing that we got a replacement that is better and an improvement than who we currently have then yes, absolutely.

I do not believe a Gary Rowett/Dean Smith esq manager is the answer that we need right now. In my view that would be a sideway step and basically in my eyes would see us jumping from the oven to the fire hypothetically.

If our aim is to keep fannying about in this league then yeah, go for either.

If we are wanting Premier league football again come June 2018 onwards then we need to be looking at a manager with the credentials to be able to work with what we have already, get the best out of them and guide us to promotion with very little to spend come January, then we need to set our stall out better.

There are managers out there capable of this, but not many - granted!

I guess it depends how bad we really want to go up this season I guess.

 

[flashingqwerty]

8 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I don't punish those who work for me for making an occasional mistake. You can interpret that as a lack of accountability if you like. But I can assure you that's not what it is.

If I had an employee performing well and then I punished him/her as soon as he/she made a mistake, I'd be a shit boss.

Punishment is a strong word for benching someone!

Take this example: you're a builder and you built 10 houses when the porch of the 10th house collapses.

Are you saying that the guy who built that porch should just be left to carry on because hes an adult and knows he made a mistake? Cos that would be a bad idea...

You should work with the guy to figure out what went wrong and maybe buddy with him to help him improve.

Say then youve built another 10 houses and now the porch of hiuse 20 falls down.  The guy is still an adult and still knows he done wrong but you didnt punish him by taking him off of building porches so youre at the very least partially responsible as you allowed him to keep building.  In your approach nothing gets said and he goes on to build more porches.  For me he has now shown he is not safe to be building porches so i need to pull him and get someone to fill in.  He can watch his replacement build porches to help him learn how to do it better. 

From here i would gradually increase the amount of work i allow him to do on builds until he regains my (and his own) confidence.

This is how management should work. Fail once fine, lets review what happened, understand why and work on putting something in place to prevent a future ocurrance.  Fail again, then i need you to take a step back to gain some perspective and do more work on improving your focus.  I will gradually increase your level or responsibility assuming you dont continue to fail, until you show you can do it on your own. 

Its not a punishment to have someone take a step back for perspective after multiple mistakes, its a guidance and training task.  If he sees being dropped as a punishment when he has made multiple serious errors then id say he is probably not cut out for the job.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Providing that we got a replacement that is better and an improvement than who we currently have then yes, absolutely.

I do not believe a Gary Rowett/Dean Smith esq manager is the answer that we need right now. In my view that would be a sideway step and basically in my eyes would see us jumping from the oven to the fire hypothetically.

If our aim is to keep fannying about in this league then yeah, go for either.

If we are wanting Premier league football again come June 2018 onwards then we need to be looking at a manager with the credentials to be able to work with what we have already, get the best out of them and guide us to promotion with very little to spend come January, then we need to set our stall out better.

There are managers out there capable of this, but not many - granted!

I guess it depends how bad we really want to go up this season I guess.

 

@DCJonah

I agree if we sacked him now the appointment would need to be perfect. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by Vive_La_Villa

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

Punishment is a strong word for benching someone!

Take this example: you're a builder and you built 10 houses when the porch of the 10th house collapses.

Are you saying that the guy who built that porch should just be left to carry on because hes an adult and knows he made a mistake? Cos that would be a bad idea...

You should work with the guy to figure out what went wrong and maybe buddy with him to help him improve.

Say then youve built another 10 houses and now the porch of hiuse 20 falls down.  The guy is still an adult and still knows he done wrong but you didnt punish him by taking him off of building porches so youre at the very least partially responsible as you allowed him to keep building.  In your approach nothing gets said and he goes on to build more porches.  For me he has now shown he is not safe to be building porches so i need to pull him and get someone to fill in.  He can watch his replacement build porches to help him learn how to do it better. 

From here i would gradually increase the amount of work i allow him to do on builds until he regains my (and his own) confidence.

This is how management should work. Fail once fine, lets review what happened, understand why and work on putting something in place to prevent a future ocurrance.  Fail again, then i need you to take a step back to gain some perspective and do more work on improving your focus.  I will gradually increase your level or responsibility assuming you dont continue to fail, until you show you can do it on your own. 

Its not a punishment to have someone take a step back for perspective after multiple mistakes, its a guidance and training task.  If he sees being dropped as a punishment when he has made multiple serious errors then id say he is probably not cut out for the job.

Bruce seems like an old school manager and is the reason many are not too happy with him from a tactical and approach to games perspective.

But one thing is for sure is an old school manager will have told Whelan what he felt about that mistake and what would happen if he made a mistake like that again.

I'm sure Bruce would have done this. 

[AvfcRigo82]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Maybe I’ve misunderstood what you meant in your OP. I’ll assume I have and leave it there because why you’re suggesting is nonsense IMO. 

I think you have my friend and taken it a tad out of context a wee bit.

Terry is Bruces buddy we are led to understand, correct?

So on that note then of course he is going to praise him, my point being; what is he praising him for?

It could also be a case of reverse psychology by JT too.  

Feel free to have a giggle if you must but football can be a funny old game.

As I have said, time will tell eventually.

[AvfcRigo82]

9 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Bruce seems like an old school manager and is the reason many are not too happy with him from a tactical and approach to games perspective.

But one thing is for sure is an old school manager will have told Whelan what he felt about that mistake and what would happen if he made a mistake like that again.

I'm sure Bruce would have done this. 

I don't think he's got it in him.

I have seen Bruce with more black eyes and broken noses than a Bully Beef and Chips sketch in a Dandy comic!

[flashingqwerty]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I'm 100% sure we do those things.

My point was Glenn Whelan doesn't have to sit down and watch a video of his backpass to know he's made a mistake. He doesn't need to be told it was an error or analyse how it happened.

So youre contradicting yourself?

As a team we do analyze games and errors but whelan doesnt have to? Why?

Just because its a glaringly obvious error ( and not the 1st time he has made that same error i might add) does not give him a free pass to not review and work on things to prevent it happening again.

A much cleverer man than me once said that the definition of insanity was to repeat the same scenario without changing anything and to expect a different result.

Not having whelan review, address and work on this error is the very apitomy (sp?) of this.

[flashingqwerty]

On 12/18/2017 at 21:05, TRO said:

And while I am not in a position to disagree, because I can only speculate and we have all done enough of that, unless we are at BMH every day, we can only voice our opinion.

However, just remember ( and its not a counter argument, but) Steve Bruce is highly though off in amongst his peers, so They may have an opinion on why that is too.

sounds like there is valid arguments on both sides....But.

If they were all right.

We would be sitting at the top now.

ps Don't forget Middlesbrough was the favourites.....shows what opinions count for.

Tro i dont think we are saying too much different here (for once) 

I do believe that Bruce is a good manager.

I dont believe he (if indeed it was him) has signed the correct type of players to suit the way he wants us to play.

So as we are in a situation where our ability to make new signings is very limited, it seems to me that it would make more sense to look to bring in a manager whose footballing philosophy more closely matches the abilities/talents within the squad rather than persisting with bruces square pegs in round holes approach (yes its harsh and overly simplistic, but its how it appears to me from the outside).

Like grasshopper i am clearly a brouter, but just wanted to add that no matter whether he stays or goes, i do not see us getting promoted this season.  I just dont think our squad runs deep enough to compete in such a physically demanding league.

Edited December 20, 2017 by flashingqwerty

[TRO]

13 hours ago, vreitti said:

I've been following Villa for the better part of thirty years now, so yes I am well aware of our recent struggles from a result perspective. I always thought the ROT was something else though, more than just failing managers and poor results. Something fundamentally wrong behind the scenes and what not. Perhaps my view on a manager, as some sort of sole responsible entity in regard to football clubs is unfair, I dunno. Perhaps the Dr. was in fact the one that stopped the ROT 

could be.....but i thought we was talking directly football.

[Lerner's Driver]

5 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

So it all becomes irrelevant then anyway?  

'It' is always irrelevant anyway.

[Lerner's Driver]

4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Cheers for clarifying that. Some of us where a little unsure on how you really felt

Funny how Xmas lightens the mood...

I've gone from finding @Grasshopper's dogged pursuit of Steven Bruce's balls on a plate unpalatable at best, to perceiving it and him as perhaps the most gifted comedian Villa Talk has ever witnessed. 

And I mean that sincerely.

Your unyielding repetition now has me cracking up as I deck the halls with boughs of holly, mate.

[srsmithusa]

12 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I don't punish those who work for me for making an occasional mistake. You can interpret that as a lack of accountability if you like. But I can assure you that's not what it is.

If I had an employee performing well and then I punished him/her as soon as he/she made a mistake, I'd be a shit boss.

So, this was the first blind pass you’ve seen him make that went to an opponent?

if it were, I might agree with you.  

[Grasshopper]

1 hour ago, Lerner's Driver said:

Funny how Xmas lightens the mood...

I've gone from finding @Grasshopper's dogged pursuit of Steven Bruce's balls on a plate unpalatable at best, to perceiving it and him as perhaps the most gifted comedian Villa Talk has ever witnessed. 

And I mean that sincerely.

Your unyielding repetition now has me cracking up as I deck the halls with boughs of holly, mate.

I‘m surprised Bruce isn‘t doing it for you

[Villarocker]

8 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Are you suggestion that sacking Bruce now and replacing him could lead to promotion this season? 

To be fair, it could go either way so it is possible that could be the outcome.