Steve Bruce

[Mjvilla]

13 hours ago, Michael118 said:

He's always been a consistent player but we'll see how it unfolds.

You have more chance of persuading people that kozak should've been a regular starter than Westwood was a consistent performer im afraid. I'm with you though (on Westwood, not kozak)

[DaveAV1]

14 hours ago, skarroki said:

I think the problem for me is that we looked much worse, over a much longer period of time, under Bruce than under Di Matteo. I'm not sure if Di Matteo would have been sacked, and Bruce would have subsequently kept his job, if it wasn't for us hiring Steve Round. It doesn't sit well with me that, at least in my eyes, there's an element of "jobs for the boys" going on at the club, no matter how well qualified those "boys" are.

Steve Round concerns me. He was brought in to give the team an identity. He may well be doing that behind the scenes and the next few weeks may show us what he has in mind. But if we just continue in the same vein as we have since he joined us, I'd like to know, what is the point of Steve Round?

[DCJonah]

8 hours ago, VillaChris said:

There was still a massive losing culture at the club when he came in. Following on from the disastrous last prem season we won 1 of our first 12 championship games and also went out of the league cup in terrible fashion.

A lax summer transfer campaign didn't help either. We hardly shifted anyone out and it took ages for us to sign anyone decent as we started the Sheff Weds game with just Gollini, Elphick, Tishbola and McCormack as signings. Obviously McCormack just hasn't worked out but the other three look laughable now in thinking they were going to get us promoted.

So he came in to all this. Now I'm not saying he's been brilliant but we were still on life support compared to many other clubs when he turned up. The away form has remained a disaster and we have no chance of going up until that is solved but at least we've made VP a tough place to come for visitors to get three points again. 

We lost 3 in 11 league games. That's losing 27% of the time. 

Under Bruce we've lost 14 in 35, that's losing 40% of the time. 

If you want to talk about a massive losing culture well then clearly Bruce has made it worse than RDM. 

The cup game was shit but that was used as a last chance saloon and saw players dropped completely or sold because of it. 

Edited May 13, 2017 by DCJonah

[Michael118]

48 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

You have more chance of persuading people that kozak should've been a regular starter than Westwood was a consistent performer im afraid. I'm with you though (on Westwood, not kozak)

I'd love Kozak to be picked up by Newcastle or another club in the Championship or PL. I have no doubt he'd flourish next to a striker like Dwight Gayle or anybody really if he was given a proper opportunity at the right club.

[Mjvilla]

13 minutes ago, Michael118 said:

I'd love Kozak to be picked up by Newcastle or another club in the Championship or PL. I have no doubt he'd flourish next to a striker like Dwight Gayle or anybody really if he was given a proper opportunity at the right club.

I think 3 years ago, id have agreed with you. Injuries definitely ruined him which was a real shame.

[Michael118]

21 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

I think 3 years ago, id have agreed with you. Injuries definitely ruined him which was a real shame.

Not sure about that. I didn't see the Derby game but he was fine in the Premier League the season before and scored a hat trick for the Under 23's after the Derby game. If anything cuts him down it will be injuries but I'm not convinced he's been ruined by them.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Michael118

[Mjvilla]

10 minutes ago, Michael118 said:

Not sure about that. I didn't see the Derby game but he was fine in the Premier League the season before and scored a hat trick for the Under 23's after the Derby game. If anything cuts him down it will be injuries but I'm not convinced he's been ruined by them.

Like you said, you didn't see the derby game. He was never the quickest but he'd lost nearly all his pace. Genuinely think I could've walked quicker. I'm afraid he is already ruined and he will end up in the Czech league because that is his standard now.

he played 258 minutes in the prem league the season before, without scoring. Spaced over 4 consecutive games. Then got injured again. I'm afraid injuries have ruined him.

[skarroki]

1 hour ago, Mjvilla said:

But we can use hindsight now because it's happened and the proof of the pudding was in the eating. Tshibola failed. Elphick has struggled. Gollini isn't here anymore. As you rightly said McCormack has been a huge failure.

kodjia, Chester, Adomah and jedinak have been good signings. So, a 50% success rate. I think to say that it's a myth that there were bad signings last summer because we're aren't allowed to use hindsight is very narrow minded because we can only judge signings on what they've done for avfc. 

In my opinion, it is not a myth that we made a lot of bad signings, it's a fact.

The signings haven't worked out. That doesn't mean they were bad signings. Richards is a bad signing because we all knew his fitness issues and fat contract. Tshibola and Gollini were highly regarded young players, McCormack was THE player to sign in the championship and Elphick was the exact kind of player and attitude the club had been crying out for. They didn't work out but that doesn't make them bad.

Gollini and Tshibola could still come back and play for us, McCormack could fire us to promotion and Elphick could have a solid pre season and show the promise he had in his first few games. Will it then be a good summer window again? If you don't judge it on what it was at the time then your opinion will just continually shift until they've all left the club. 

[AntrimBlack]

1 hour ago, DaveAV1 said:

Steve Round concerns me. He was brought in to give the team an identity. He may well be doing that behind the scenes and the next few weeks may show us what he has in mind. But if we just continue in the same vein as we have since he joined us, I'd like to know, what is the point of Steve Round?

What is the point of Calderwood. We have gone backwards since he came in.

[Mjvilla]

4 minutes ago, skarroki said:

The signings haven't worked out. That doesn't mean they were bad signings. Richards is a bad signing because we all knew his fitness issues and fat contract. Tshibola and Gollini were highly regarded young players, McCormack was THE player to sign in the championship and Elphick was the exact kind of player and attitude the club had been crying out for. They didn't work out but that doesn't make them bad.

Gollini and Tshibola could still come back and play for us, McCormack could fire us to promotion and Elphick could have a solid pre season and show the promise he had in his first few games. Will it then be a good summer window again? If you don't judge it on what it was at the time then your opinion will just continually shift until they've all left the club. 

Id never heard of tshibola or gollini before we signed them. How do I judge them then? I can only judge based on what I've seen of them. That hasn't been good enough. I think McCormack, despite being talented, always has had a bit of an attitude. Fulham were happy to get rid as far as I remember. Look where Fulham have gone now without him. It was a gamble at the time in my opinion and he has struggled massively. Elphick had missed most of the season before through injury and again I hadn't really see him play before so can only judge him on what I've seen! Which hasn't been good enough! 

whichever way you dress it up, those players haven't done it for avfc ergo, they are bad signings for avfc.

[skarroki]

2 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

whichever way you dress it up, those players haven't done it for avfc ergo, they are bad signings for avfc.

We're just going to end up arguing over how we both define a good or bad signing. So I'm just agreeing to disagree with you on this.

I take issue with you saying McCormack was a gamble and Fulham wanted rid of him. The rumours of the Fulham players not wanting him back were never proven and by all accounts it looks like he's had some personal issues to get over this season. Fulham didn't want him to leave in the summer and every club that had £12 million to spend were looking to spend it on McCormack. I can't remember there being anybody complaining about him signing for us. The only hiccup was the fee for someone of his age. Not his attitude problem because nobody knew about it.

It looks like Bruce will give him a chance now anyway and hopefully he flourishes 

 

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Michael118 said:

I'd love Kozak to be picked up by Newcastle or another club in the Championship or PL. I have no doubt he'd flourish next to a striker like Dwight Gayle or anybody really if he was given a proper opportunity at the right club.

No premier league or championship club would be that daft. 

Against derby he looked like he'd won a competition to get on the pitch. It was an awful display from someone who was meant to be a professional in this sport. 

 

[Guest av1]

20 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

What is the point of Calderwood. We have gone backwards since he came in.

Bruce has commented many times on the need to hold onto the ball better, and the fact that we aren't playing how he wants us to. Now having purchased players that where comfortable on the ball at there previous clubs, the common denominator has to be the coaching. 

If Bruce persists with the same coaching staff over pre season, his cries of 'they aren't doing what I'm telling them' will quickly fall on deaf ears next season. 

 

[jon_c]

2 minutes ago, av1 said:

 

If Bruce persists with the same coaching staff over pre season, his cries of 'they aren't doing what I'm telling them' will quickly fall on deaf ears next season. 

 

As far as I'm concerned it's already past that point. We are seriously lacking in the coaching department.

[Guest av1]

7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

No premier league or championship club would be that daft. 

Against derby he looked like he'd won a competition to get on the pitch. It was an awful display from someone who was meant to be a professional in this sport. 

 

Any player that's behind Rudy Gestede in the pecking order must struggle to keep a straight face when describing himself as a professional football player. 

[Michael118]

1 hour ago, Mjvilla said:

Like you said, you didn't see the derby game. He was never the quickest but he'd lost nearly all his pace. Genuinely think I could've walked quicker. I'm afraid he is already ruined and he will end up in the Czech league because that is his standard now.

he played 258 minutes in the prem league the season before, without scoring. Spaced over 4 consecutive games. Then got injured again. I'm afraid injuries have ruined him.

So he was fine in January but ruined in August?

In those 4 Premier League games we won against Crystal Palace, drew with Leicester and drew with West Brom. The first match he was involved in was a loss to Sunderland but he was a late substitute coming on after 76 mins. This was in our worst season ever where we only managed 3 wins and 8 draws over the whole season. Before he came in we hadn't won in 19 matches and after he got injured we lost 13 of the next 15. He's the kind of player who has an impact even if he doesn't necessarily get on the scoresheet.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Michael118

[Guest av1]

1 minute ago, jon_c said:

As far as I'm concerned it's already past that point. We are seriously lacking in the coaching department.

Agreed. Watching the games, and listening to Bruce post match, its almost like Bruce and the coaching staff are singing from different hymn sheets.

Bruce claims he wants one thing, and the coaching staff are working on something completely different. 

[Lerner's Driver]

23 hours ago, Michael118 said:

 

Idrissa Gueye - best tackler in Europe who is being compared with N'Golo Kante?

Ciaran Clark who was just voted Newcastle fans player of the season?

Ashley Westwood is impressing as well -

http://www.espnfc.com/club/burnley/379/blog/post/3120950/sam-vokes-confidence-boost-in-burnley-draw-with-west-brom

 

They all play for better teams than us now, so are fairly likely to look and actually perform better. That and quite simply, a change is sometimes what is needed to reimagine and rediscover your potential.

However, whilst the change it up approach can and does work for individual players, it sadly, never does with instant success when applied wholesale to failing organisations.

An organisation doesn't suddenly rediscover it's mojo after major restructuring. First is stopping the rot, then they have to go back to basic principles, identify the future direction and invest in the weak areas of the operation before they can even think about selling themselves as sexy and vital again.

There is no clinical perfect solution when dealing with macro level failure because every element from planning to execution and evaluation is assessed by human beings, so is prone to imperfection, meaning despite the best will in the world, any slight problem can set the recovery back even further.

It has been criticised on here, but sometimes, in fact no, all of the time, there does have to be some blind faith placed in those tasked with delivering change, or else, nothing would ever get done. And that is ultimately my point, we were the basket case we became under Lerner because there was no hope, no plan and ultimately no faith placed by him in his team to deliver on the objective.

In fact in the end, there was no objective, but there is now and despite his obvious faults, Bruce is pursuing those objectives to the best of his ability. He won't lead us to Premiership glory, but I fully believe he will get us up next year with a mix of some ugly and some half decent performances.

[DaveAV1]

5 hours ago, AntrimBlack said:

What is the point of Calderwood. We have gone backwards since he came in.

He's also on my rapidly lengthening worry list!

[Demitri_C]

7 hours ago, AntrimBlack said:

What is the point of Calderwood. We have gone backwards since he came in.

Hmm calderwood was a defender and we have had more clean sheets with him than before him

I think there is no foundation to this whatsoever