Steve Bruce

[MarkLillis]

Old "Arry" has had a chat with Brucie and suggests that he knows he has a difficult job on his hands......

I could see during the derby game that Redknapp had a plan to score and it didn't take long to notice what it was, but he had obviously looked at what he had and said "right this is how we get a result today".as some have you have stated above Bruce doesn't seem to be trying to do that.

The question has to be why?

I mean Steve Bruce knows football and he knows players, he hasn't just forgotten this knowledge lifetime of being around football can give. He CAN see their strengths and weakness's so why has he decided to play this non progressive un attacking anti football when we have some (on paper anyway)good attacking players.

Please don't tell me this man who has been in and around football success all his life is just crap.....

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

Are you confident?  I mean, I agree with the time point... but I'm just not confident.  We should be a much better team than we are.

On the surface, i agree we should be much better than we are.....and equally I am not trying to be holier than thou, by claiming not enough time, for the sake of it.I just happen to think the magnitude of the job and to build team spirit with virtual strangers, needs more time.....irrespective of any manager, being in charge.

There are many factors at play and unanswered

• Steve Bruce is already open enough to question himself, he has come out and said that.
• Did he sign the players or someone else, or a committee?
• He has said that he has faith in the Hogan signing and that he is not being fed the ball during a game.?
• He has admitted the team does not mirror his playing out look, make of that what you will, but it does not suggest to me, he is comfortable with it.
• He has already said that we can't pass a decent ball.

now if that means they are not playing for him or if they can't do what he is asking, it needs to be established.

Wherever the fault lies, it is alarmingly clear, its not good enough.

The midfield is far from right and as soon as Jed is out the centre of defence looks iffy....its just not right.

If it means players going or the managers goes, as long as it is the best future intersts of the club, so be it.

I am absolutely 110% certain there is a case for not good enough, just unsure where the problem lies, assuming its only in one place.

question....have we signed a few more primma donna's or has it all passed him by?

[TRO]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

But he also needs to show something to indicate more time is worth giving. No one expects the finished article, but there should be signs to suggest more time will lead to the results we want. 

There's really nothing to show more time will mean better. 

I am not in a position to argue with that.....but we need to see what he comes up with.....as he agrees.

[markavfc40]

5 hours ago, terrytini said:

Somewhat like an alcoholic, wakes up every morning with a hangover and blames the beer.

It may seem like that at the moment but I don’t think Bruce is stupid and he would have to be to think any of what he is coming out with now will wash next season. He will be fully aware that the finger will be solely pointed at him if we continue to serve up what we have done for much of his time here.

At the moment he does just about have a legitimate out for me. He did inherit an unbalanced squad and we did make a lot of changes in January and I think due to the amount of changes over the last 9 months, something like 35 ins and outs, we have therefore found it difficult to look anything like a team despite on paper appearing to have as good a squad as most in this division.

On the one hand I am reassured that Bruce is seeing what we all see in that we fail to look after the ball and that we struggle to create chances and that without Kodjia we look totally toothless. On the other hand though him telling us what is wrong isn’t enough as he is the man responsible for how we play and despite being willing to acknowledge the fact we have seen an unprecedented turnover of players this season by now I expected much better.

I am still 100% in my belief that we should stick with Bruce though. Another change in manager will only lead to them taking half of preseason to assess the squad, potentially another big overhaul of the squad and gives a readymade excuse to another manager and the potential of another season of transition. Sticking with Bruce gives us the one thing we haven’t had for a while and some stability. I look at the teams in the automatic promotion places and the play offs and the one thing they all have in common is that they have had managers in place for at least two transfer windows and with at least one full pre season with their squads under their belt. It has to make a difference and just basic logic suggests that allowing someone with Bruce’s record of promotions a couple of transfer windows and a full pre season is the better option rather than again gambling with another manager.

Come August we will have a manager who will have been here for 10 months who has four promotions on his CV who will have a squad of players the vast majority of whom will have at least half a season playing together under their belts and a full pre season together behind them. A squad that already on paper looks as good as most in the division and will almost certainly be better with the likely 3 or 4 additions we make over the summer. Contrast that to the beginning of this season when we had a manager who had been in place for 2 months, with one promotion on his CV, a squad of players the majority of whom had yet to play a competitive game together that on paper looked unbalanced and a club overall still with the stench of failure from the previous season.

Sitting 12th in the Championship at the moment and it may not appear we are making progress but I think going forward this season will have proven to be a useful and necessary tool in getting us into the kind of shape we need to be in come August and that allowing Bruce this season to learn about this squad and to implement the changes needed over the summer will reap its rewards going forwards.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but looking back at it now it was naïve to think we could turn around half a dozen years of mismanagement in one season and I was as guilty as anyone of getting swept away by us throwing around money like confetti last year and thinking that would instantly lead to us competing for promotion. There was so much wrong at this football and failure was so ingrained that I think even those now running the club were surprised at how deep and vast the issues were as Keith Wyness as alluded to. It isn’t a word any football fan likes to hear but I think by being patient now and backing those at the club, including the manager, this time next year we will have been well rewarded for it.

[TRO]

10 hours ago, av1 said:

This is the crux of it for me, and why I'm beginning to change my stance on Bruce. 

He says we need 3/4 additions (which I'd agree with), but he bought quality additions in January and they all look lost (Taylor aside). 

So is adding another 3/4 players going to change anything? He talks about the need to hold onto the ball, but then sets up a midfield to sit 40 yards behind a lone striker. And when players like Hourihane and Lansbury look lost in these set ups, he decides that the answer is to drop them for Leandro Bacuna.   

Let not forget also that the bloke has had 33 games, nearly a full PL season, with resources that most managers in this league could only dream of. 

The squad does need strengthening, but more pressing imo is the coaching team, because unless Bruce changes his style, no amount of "quality" additions will make a difference. 

AV

look it could turn out, you are right.....and I am no more sure of the answers, but....

If its all down to Steve Bruce , why is Taylor ok.

If every player was playing shite it may have a semblance of order, but they are not.

just a "what if"

what if he is telling the players the right way, but they are just not doing it.....Yes he is still responsible, but it raises different questions.....and a different approach to put it right.

I'm just being Devils Advocate.

Edited May 2, 2017 by TRO

[Guest av1]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

AV

look it could turn out you are right.....amd I am no more sure of the answers, but.

If its all down to Steve Bruce , why is Taylor ok.

 

I think that by and large, tactics effect defenders less than players in other areas of the pitch. Taylor is a left back, his job is simply to stop whoever is playing right wing for the opponent. 

Midfield is completely different, see Gerrard and Lampard for England for instance. 

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

just a "what if"

what if he is telling the right way, but they are just not doing it.....Yes he is still responsible, but it raises different questions.....and a different approach to put it right.

I'm just being Devils Advocate.

Lansbury and Hourihane both played in quite advanced postions for their former clubs. I can't believe for one minute that they are both choosing to sit deep inspite of Bruce's instructions to the contrary. 

[TRO]

57 minutes ago, av1 said:

I think that by and large, tactics effect defenders less than players in other areas of the pitch. Taylor is a left back, his job is simply to stop whoever is playing right wing for the opponent. 

Midfield is completely different, see Gerrard and Lampard for England for instance. 

Lansbury and Hourihane both played in quite advanced postions for their former clubs. I can't believe for one minute that they are both choosing to sit deep inspite of Bruce's instructions to the contrary. 

Well Bruce has already said he can't believe the inept performances, that suggests to me that they are not completely playing to instructions.

does it mean if you are playing deeper, you lose the ability to take care of the ball,does it mean you lose your first touch, does it mean your ability to pass the ball deserts you?

If you are struggling in midfield to beat an opponent, the tendency is to retreat, its a natural trait.....and how can we be so sure, the players they had around them,at their previous clubs allowed them to play advanced.....and ours don't.

I am just highlighting the uncertainty surrounding our turgid stuff..... I am not condemning anyone just yet....but i do agree its shit.

I have seen inept performances in the past under the stewardship of other managers and after a poor performance that have completely denied it and said we played well.That is not happening with SB.

i am no more sure of one argument or the other, nothing is clear to me.

Markavfc40, sums up my opinion, i guess

Edited May 2, 2017 by TRO

[thabucks]

I keep hearing people post that Bruce has said he is unhappy with our performances and playing style etc. Praising his honesty as if that is a reason to keep him on.  It's a sly trick. A false narrative  

I see it as self preservation and lip service personally. He is playing the old chums media game.  He is passing the buck to the players whilst appearing to take part of the blame on without actually really doing so. Some lap it up and see it as a sign he will miraculously change his ways  and has a new plan and things will be different if we give this footballing dinosaur a whole summer. As if he couldn't of slowly implemented it during the season. I don't buy it all. 

He is the one who sets them up, he is the one who picks the team. He is the one who sets the tactics. He is the one who has not gotten the best from his disposal. We have had nothing to play for, for weeks now so if individuals are ignoring him then surely they would be frozen out the 1st team for good. 

Di Matteo was the wrong appointment but I believe given the season he would of had us around where we are now and playing more attractive football. That's not saying we were wrong to dispose of him but given where we are and  who we have ended up. Would things be that different?

 I'm sorry but I'm not willing to accept mid table mediocrity this season as stability that Bruce has supposedly brought to us. He has failed due to his own limitations and imo it's not the players who are at fault but the system implemented from Bruce. 

Edited May 2, 2017 by thabucks

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, thabucks said:

I keep hearing people post that Bruce has said he is unhappy with our performances and playing style etc. Praising his honesty as if that is a reason to keep him on.  It's a sly trick. A false narrative  

I see it as self preservation and lip service personally. He is playing the old chums media game.  He is passing the buck to the players whilst appearing to take part of the blame on without actually really doing so. Some lap it up and see it as a sign he will miraculously change his ways  and has a new plan and things will be different if we give this footballing dinosaur a whole summer. As if he couldn't of slowly implemented it during the season. I don't buy it all. 

He is the one who sets them up, he is the one who picks the team. He is the one who sets the tactics. He is the one who has not gotten the best from his disposal. We have had nothing to play for, for weeks now so if individuals are ignoring him then surely they would be frozen out the 1st team for good. 

Di Matteo was the wrong appointment but I believe given the season he would of had us around where we are now and playing more attractive football. That's not saying we were wrong to dispose of him but given where we are and  who we have ended up. Would things be that different?

 I'm sorry but I'm not willing to accept mid table mediocrity this season as stability that Bruce has supposedly brought to us. He has failed due to his own limitations and imo it's not the players who are at fault but the system implemented from Bruce. 

So unless he walks, where do we go from here......he will be given further financial support in the summer.....to bring in players that will do it it for him or that is the plan.

unless of course that is fake news and he gets no money and he resigns.

[thabucks]

He has bought in his own players and look how that has turned out.  He hasn't got a performance of note out of them collectively but jets not blame Bruce for that. And yeah let's give him more money and more time and things will be different, even though it has proven to be the opposite to date. Did I dream the 7 signings happening in Jan, with only one proving to be effective and utilised properly by Bruce.  Let's waste more money on this doomed project all for the sake of stability or whatever buzz word we are using as an excuse for him this week. 

Edited May 2, 2017 by thabucks

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, thabucks said:

He has bought in his own players and look how that has turned out. But yeah given more money and time things will be different even though it has proven to be the opposite to date. 

just as a matter of interest.....who do you fancy in his place.

[thabucks]

I'm not employed to make these decisions I pay through buying tickets etc to have an opinion. All managers have a risk factor attached and pros and cons. I can't see any pros with Bruce. 

Edited May 2, 2017 by thabucks

[TRO]

1 hour ago, av1 said:

I think that by and large, tactics effect defenders less than players in other areas of the pitch. Taylor is a left back, his job is simply to stop whoever is playing right wing for the opponent. 

Midfield is completely different, see Gerrard and Lampard for England for instance. 

Lansbury and Hourihane both played in quite advanced postions for their former clubs. I can't believe for one minute that they are both choosing to sit deep inspite of Bruce's instructions to the contrary. 

I would agree its hard to believe they are sitting deep out of choosing.....but there are still options to the cause.

It seems strange to me that Jed is out again and bang.....defensive errors creep in to what we believe is a solid defence.

I am not trying to guide anyone down a certain route, I am merely asking questions, but what if the midfield doesn't trust the defence or in fact they are getting beaten in " ring craft" ( pardon the boxing term) by the opposition midfield and its that that forces them to retreat.

How can we be sure we know?

[TRO]

2 hours ago, thabucks said:

I keep hearing people post that Bruce has said he is unhappy with our performances and playing style etc. Praising his honesty as if that is a reason to keep him on.  It's a sly trick. A false narrative  

I see it as self preservation and lip service personally. He is playing the old chums media game.  He is passing the buck to the players whilst appearing to take part of the blame on without actually really doing so. Some lap it up and see it as a sign he will miraculously change his ways  and has a new plan and things will be different if we give this footballing dinosaur a whole summer. As if he couldn't of slowly implemented it during the season. I don't buy it all. 

He is the one who sets them up, he is the one who picks the team. He is the one who sets the tactics. He is the one who has not gotten the best from his disposal. We have had nothing to play for, for weeks now so if individuals are ignoring him then surely they would be frozen out the 1st team for good. 

Di Matteo was the wrong appointment but I believe given the season he would of had us around where we are now and playing more attractive football. That's not saying we were wrong to dispose of him but given where we are and  who we have ended up. Would things be that different?

 I'm sorry but I'm not willing to accept mid table mediocrity this season as stability that Bruce has supposedly brought to us. He has failed due to his own limitations and imo it's not the players who are at fault but the system implemented from Bruce. 

I think you are miscontruing the situation.

Or a bona fide remark from a manager that has openly commented on what we are complaining about......is that so bad?.....you make it sound like we are dealing with the presidente of Columbia fighting the drug barons.

There is a list of managers who are deemed no good and gone on to do decent things.....folk are quoting Gary Monk, it makes me laugh. Swansea wasn't so convinced was they.

Steve Bruce has already agreed with you, that mid-table is no good, so I doubt HE will settle for that.

Edited May 2, 2017 by TRO

[thabucks]

He can say all he he wants about not settling for it. Just because he says it doesn't mean anything will change. You do realise how the footballing media works dont you. In after match interviews it's all about sound bites and speaking in cliches. 

I Won't change my view that he is the issue here. 

 

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

So unless he walks, where do we go from here......he will be given further financial support in the summer.....to bring in players that will do it it for him or that is the plan.

unless of course that is fake news and he gets no money and he resigns.

That worries me.  I don't think he should get more money to throw at it.  I'm really worried about our financial stability and throwing another £20m+ at it isn't the answer.

[Dr_Pangloss]

8 minutes ago, bobzy said:

That worries me.  I don't think he should get more money to throw at it.  I'm really worried about our financial stability and throwing another £20m+ at it isn't the answer.

Not just the actual fees but also the wages. We are playing average players far too much money for this division, it can only lead to a mercenary mentality. 

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, thabucks said:

I keep hearing people post that Bruce has said he is unhappy with our performances and playing style etc. Praising his honesty as if that is a reason to keep him on.  It's a sly trick. A false narrative  

I see it as self preservation and lip service personally. He is playing the old chums media game.  He is passing the buck to the players whilst appearing to take part of the blame on without actually really doing so.

I personally think this a load of nonsense, and if it were true he'd have lost the dressing room a long time ago.

Bruce should be criticised for not getting the players to play the way he wants them to.

Stuff like this shouldn't be invented though. I mean are you actually saying the team ARE playing how he wants them to play, yet he's still coming out to the media and saying they're not playing how he wants them to play to deflect blame from himself (consider he was saying the same things when we were winning games)

Do you not see how convoluted that is?

[AshVilla]

Instead of spending 30 mill + again in the summer how about we get a manager who can get the best out of the players we already have

They were all tearing it up at their previous clubs before they come here

Transfers such as Hogan for example seem more and more ridiculous the more i see them play under this manager

I really do hope we just need "to give him a preseason" 

 

Edited May 2, 2017 by AshVilla

[TRO]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

That worries me.  I don't think he should get more money to throw at it.  I'm really worried about our financial stability and throwing another £20m+ at it isn't the answer.

I don't think it's the answer either, but have you any other idea's.

Edited May 2, 2017 by TRO