ender4 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: If only football worked like that. yeah, fair enough. But better to have someone who's done it 4 times, than someone who hasn't. one thing is for certain, sacking a manager after a handful of games is definitely the road to ruin. Edited February 20, 2017 by ender4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, mykeyb said: If in his first 12 games we had seen more than an odd half of decent to good football maybe, if we had seen signs that he knew what had gone wrong and had a method to putting it right, if he showed that he had some understanding of how to improve whats wrong on the pitch or that he could tweak the tactics during the game to counter what the opposition do or if he made some substitutions which made some semblance of sense then he would get my backing. he didnt do any of that in his first 12 games and hasnt done so since. Without wishing to be churlish any improvement tonight may well be down to the re-introduction of Jedinak rather any kind of masterplan by the manager. Well I think you underestimate the size of the task. If Jedinak does improve things tonight, would you not deduce from that, that might be the player SB was missing. Masterplan what is this mythical thing I keep hearing Masterplan...Blue print .......its a bloody simple game. 1 x Goalkeeper 2 x Full backs 2 x Centre backs 1 x DM 2 x AM 1 x winger 2 x Strikers/Forwards maybe a few personal alternatives of course......Master Plan......This is Villa Park, not Cape Canaveral. Edited February 20, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, ender4 said: I agree next year is make or break for Villa's foreseeable future. I think Steve Bruce is the perfect manager to get us promoted next year, based on his track record in the Championship. Here is the thing, we royally screwed up this season by appointing RDM who left us so far adrift it was almost impossible for Steve to do anything but consolidate and build for next season. We cannot afford to make the same mistake next season or we are likely to be a Wolves or Birmingham and never get out of this league. The onus is on the manager to build a strong finish to earn the right of having a crack at it next season, below mid table and he can go at the end of the season for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, ender4 said: yeah, fair enough. But better to have someone who's done it 4 times, than someone who hasn't. one thing is for certain, sacking a manager after a handful of games is definitely the road to ruin. Is it? How many teams in the top 6 currently have managers that have done it? Would they all swap their manager for Bruce because he's done it before? So we should have stuck with RDM? Eric Black? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) Quote Steve Bruce desperate for Aston Villa win at Newcastle Aston Villa boss Steve Bruce admits he would take any kind of win from Monday night's huge Sky Bet Championship clash with Newcastle. Bruce's side go into the game at St James' Park, which you can see live on Sky Sports 1, on a run of four successive defeats and down in 17th place in the table. ... "I'm not bothered about the performance - we need a result. In fact, we need a couple of good results. That's where we are." ... Full Article Link:http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11677/10775279/steve-bruce-desperate-for-aston-villa-win-at-newcastle That's been the problem since you arrived. Generally performing well is how you get results. Edited February 20, 2017 by villa89 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, ender4 said: I agree next year is make or break for Villa's foreseeable future. I think Steve Bruce is the perfect manager to get us promoted next year, based on his track record in the Championship. I thought that about this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, TRO said: Well I think you underestimate the size of the task. If Jedinak does improve things tonight, would you not deduce from that, that might be the player SB was missing. Masterplan what is this mythical thing I keep hearing Masterplan...Blue print .......its a bloody simple game. 1 x Goalkeeper 2 x Full backs 2 x Centre backs 1 x DM 2 x AM 1 x winger 2 x Strikers/Forwards maybe a few personal alternative of course......Master Plan......This is Villa Park, not Cape Canaveral. If Jedinak is so instrumental in our success then I would ask what is Bruces back-up plan? we havent seen anything that has worked so far have we. I agree with your selection above and maybe if he gets the right players in the right positions he may have a chance of getting results, lets hope so. If he doesnt have a "game plan" for how he would like us to play then maybe that explains alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Just now, mykeyb said: If Jedinak is so instrumental in our success then I would ask what is Bruces back-up plan? we havent seen anything that has worked so far have we. I agree with your selection above and maybe if he gets the right players in the right positions he may have a chance of getting results, lets hope so. If he doesnt have a "game plan" for how he would like us to play then maybe that explains alot. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 20, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: I thought that about this season. I hoped it. But history tells us the odds were not in our favour, and sadly that's how it has played out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 TRO you appear to believe that Bruce is the right man to return us to the top flight, what is the minimum requirement you would have for him this season to be given the chance to manage us next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: I thought that about this season. It was a massive ask for Bruce to come in after 10 games with 11 points and expect promtion. True it has not exactly improved that much since but even then it was more of a rebuild job than getting to the top 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: Is it? How many teams in the top 6 currently have managers that have done it? Would they all swap their manager for Bruce because he's done it before? So we should have stuck with RDM? Eric Black? .....but they have had their managers a tad longer Not had the indignity of picking up 13 points in the higher league and being dumped in this one.....not lost most of their team and had the heart ripped out......not had a rebuild go wrong and for that to fall down. I think you need to take stock of just how difficult this task really is. What has caused Bruce most of his problems is the minor miracle he presided over in the first 12 games when he had a win ratio of 41% to say the football was not convincing was picky ( IMO )and unappreciative of the size of the task. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BOF Posted February 20, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, mykeyb said: TRO you appear to believe that Bruce is the right man to return us to the top flight, what is the minimum requirement you would have for him this season to be given the chance to manage us next season? Why the insistence on always putting a cold hard number on something though? It's making a rod for the poster's back and it's not really constructive IMO. For me it's more a case that you can get a feel for whether things are beginning to turn around or not. For example if he was to say '12th' and we end up 13th then people say "ah then you want him gone". It's not that simple. For me, while the past month with this new squad has seen poor results, the last 2 matches have seen improved performances, so hopefully that's the first step and the results can quickly follow - because as we know, they need to follow. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, TRO said: .....but they have had their managers a tad longer Not had the indignity of picking up 13 points in the higher league and being dumped in this one.....not lost most of their team and had the heart ripped out......not had a rebuild go wrong and for that to fall down. I think you need to take stock of just how difficult this task really is. What has caused Bruce most of his problems is the minor miracle he presided over in the first 12 games when he had a win ratio of 41% to say the football was not convincing was picky ( IMO )and unappreciative of the size of the task. I completely acknowledge how difficult this job is. That's why I've changed my mind about Bruce. He seemed perfect for the club I thought we were, he looks out of his depth for the club we really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 20, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20, 2017 17 minutes ago, villa89 said: That's been the problem since you arrived. Generally performing well is how you get results. Yeah that's crap. This means we will be playing a very deep 4-5-1 formation barely going forward trying to nick a goal on the break. We'll concede and have no idea how to get back into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 20, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20, 2017 17 minutes ago, villa89 said: That's been the problem since you arrived. Generally performing well is how you get results. Yeah that's crap. This means we will be playing a very deep 4-5-1 formation barely going forward trying to nick a goal on the break. We'll concede and have no idea how to get back into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 20 minutes ago, mykeyb said: His points per game ratio here so far his 2nd worst with his period of time at Sunderland only slightly more crap. Despite his 4 promotions his average points per game during his managerial career is 1.4 which would give us a points total of 64.4 which is not even enough for the playoffs. Meaningless stats yes I agree Just for balance is average over the 3 and a bit seasons in this division with Birmingham and Hull he would average about 82 points which I would have only been good enough for automatic promotion in the 2012-13 season and play-offs for the following 3 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 20, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20, 2017 17 minutes ago, villa89 said: That's been the problem since you arrived. Generally performing well is how you get results. Yeah that's crap. This means we will be playing a very deep 4-5-1 formation barely going forward trying to nick a goal on the break. We'll concede and have no idea how to get back into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, BOF said: Why the insistence on always putting a cold hard number on something though? It's making a rod for the poster's back and it's not really constructive IMO. For me it's more a case that you can get a feel for whether things are beginning to turn around or not. For example if he was to say '12th' and we end up 13th then people say "ah then you want him gone". It's not that simple. For me, while the past month with this new squad has seen poor results, the last 2 matches have seen improved performances, so hopefully that's the first step and the results can quickly follow - because as we know, they need to follow. Where did I ask for a cold hard number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 20, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, mykeyb said: Where did I ask for a cold hard number? I suppose I just interpreted "minimum requirement" to be an attempt to quantify what to me is an intangible thing. The turning of the tide. The gradual improvement of a squad and team. I used your post but I could have used many many others to say the same thing, because I read similar sentiments a lot. No offence intended! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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