Popular Post TrentVilla Posted June 19, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2016 1 hour ago, backofthenet said: Wow well I can see I'm in the minority about having concerns about who is gonna be running our football club, will use have to wait an see if I'm still in the minority in a years time especially if we don't get promoted first time I doubt you are actually, I think a lot of fans will have a few concerns about or question marks against our new owner and his crew. I'm not sure how you couldn't. I guess some people internalise them, some express them and some opt to suppress them and wait and see. I guess others are just in the 'anyone but Lerner camp' which I was getting pretty close to joining. I think given the tenure of the well meaning but ultimately idiotic Lerner a degree of scepticism or wariness is to be expected. Especially given the assorted backgrounds of the new board or in the case of the owner the outlandish ambitions. I guess though after 6 years of abject misery following Villa most people are ready for and in need of a bit of optimism at least until August. Despite a few reservations about the owner, board and manager I'm very much in that camp right now. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 I wouldn't be surprised if Samuelson's here because of his involvement in football club sales. Either because Xia's going to buy other clubs like rumoured or he's going to try and get us promoted and then as soon as he can sell us on for a profit. I imagine Samuelson would be a useful person to have around in that scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 19, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, useless said: I wouldn't be surprised if Samuelson's here because of his involvement in football club sales. Either because Xia's going to buy other clubs like rumoured or he's going to try and get us promoted and then as soon as he can sell us on for a profit. I imagine Samuelson would be a useful person to have around in that scenario. The former might make sense but the later doesn't really when there is no guarantee of a quick return. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 2 hours ago, TrentVilla said: I doubt you are actually, I think a lot of fans will have a few concerns about or question marks against our new owner and his crew. I'm not sure how you couldn't. I guess some people internalise them, some express them and some opt to suppress them and wait and see. I guess others are just in the 'anyone but Lerner camp' which I was getting pretty close to joining. I think given the tenure of the well meaning but ultimately idiotic Lerner a degree of scepticism or wariness is to be expected. Especially given the assorted backgrounds of the new board or in the case of the owner the outlandish ambitions. I guess though after 6 years of abject misery following Villa most people are ready for and in need of a bit of optimism at least until August. Despite a few reservations about the owner, board and manager I'm very much in that camp right now. This, basically. And as I've said on the previous page, some people give the impression that they are far more learned than me on the subject of Samuelson, so I'd just like to know what it is they appear to know. So I can start to piece it together myself. The internet turns up a whole load of conjecture that seems to snowball via blogs and social media with very little (no) evidence to back it up. I am concerned, but only because others seem to be and I tend to want to know stuff before I go off the deep end. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sidcow Posted June 19, 2016 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2016 When you think about it it's a little odd that people can come out with comments along the line of "he is dodgy so I don't want him anywhere near my club" therefore putting themselves in a camp that says they are honest decent people who don't like people who do wrong However all the issues surrounding Samuelson are rumor and speculation. Nothing proven or even accused formally. What kind of society condems people as guilty of wrongdoing without proper trial and convict them on hearsay and rumor? Answer an evil and corrupt society. How can they see themselves as honest and decent people yet conduct trial by mob? All a bit odd really and certainly highly hypocritical. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Godders Posted June 19, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2016 1 hour ago, sidcow said: What kind of society condems people as guilty of wrongdoing without proper trial and convict them on hearsay and rumor? The internet. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwj Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 4 hours ago, TrentVilla said: The former might make sense but the later doesn't really when there is no guarantee of a quick return. So the same as every other investment then... (Although apparently not London housing *cough*) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofthenet Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: This, basically. And as I've said on the previous page, some people give the impression that they are far more learned than me on the subject of Samuelson, so I'd just like to know what it is they appear to know. So I can start to piece it together myself. The internet turns up a whole load of conjecture that seems to snowball via blogs and social media with very little (no) evidence to back it up. I am concerned, but only because others seem to be and I tend to want to know stuff before I go off the deep end. the concern for me is does dr xia really have any great wealth and also the fact that it appears our board will be made up entirely of people that are either involved in samuelsons swiss company or that have some association with samuelson, no one on the board will be from recon (apart from xia) which ever way you look at the samuelson thing he dosnt have any actual great wealth himself (unless he borrows it) and he does seem to leave a trial of destruction behind himself this makes me wonder who it is that has actually bought our club, is it xia or is he just here to look like the squeaky clean billionaire and that actually the person behind this sale is samuelson (remember lerner was desperate to get rid of villa, did he just sell us to the first buyer that came along) this is only rumour but some people have suggested that samuelson has borrowed money to buy villa with xia as the front man and that any parachute payments and player sales would be funding us going forward, if promotion is then not achieved we could find ourseleves in alot of financial trouble in 18-24 months time of course this is all just rumour and us as fans will probably not know a thing until the dirty stuff hits the fan at the end of next season, it will be interesting though to see how much money is actually spent between now an then on players i should also add that i have been told that samuelson headed a swiss consortium that attempted to buy us 12-18 months ago, that deal aaparantly collapsed due to the fact they couldnt prove they had the funds to complete the takeover Edited June 19, 2016 by backofthenet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godders Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 25 minutes ago, backofthenet said: this is only rumour but some people have suggested that samuelson has borrowed money to buy villa with xia as the front man and that any parachute payments and player sales would be funding us going forward, if promotion is then not achieved we could find ourseleves in alot of financial trouble in 18-24 months time Who please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney_avfc Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) 38 minutes ago, backofthenet said: the concern for me is does dr xia really have any great wealth and also the fact that it appears our board will be made up entirely of people that are either involved in samuelsons swiss company or that have some association with samuelson, no one on the board will be from recon (apart from xia) which ever way you look at the samuelson thing he dosnt have any actual great wealth himself (unless he borrows it) and he does seem to leave a trial of destruction behind himself this makes me wonder who it is that has actually bought our club, is it xia or is he just here to look like the squeaky clean billionaire and that actually the person behind this sale is samuelson (remember lerner was desperate to get rid of villa, did he just sell us to the first buyer that came along) this is only rumour but some people have suggested that samuelson has borrowed money to buy villa with xia as the front man and that any parachute payments and player sales would be funding us going forward, if promotion is then not achieved we could find ourseleves in alot of financial trouble in 18-24 months time of course this is all just rumour and us as fans will probably not know a thing until the dirty stuff hits the fan at the end of next season, it will be interesting though to see how much money is actually spent between now an then on players I suppose he borrowed a few hundred million for a few days just to show the football league Tony had the cash and then gave it back. Then faked the entire RECON group? Edited June 19, 2016 by Barney_avfc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted June 19, 2016 Administrator Share Posted June 19, 2016 39 minutes ago, backofthenet said: i should also add that i have been told that samuelson headed a swiss consortium that attempted to buy us 12-18 months ago, that deal aaparantly collapsed due to the fact they couldnt prove they had the funds to complete the takeover How exactly does this reflect negatively on Samuelson? In this story, it's the buyers who failed to come up with the money, that's nothing to do with him. I'm calling it a story because there are no facts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofthenet Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, limpid said: How exactly does this reflect negatively on Samuelson? In this story, it's the buyers who failed to come up with the money, that's nothing to do with him. I'm calling it a story because there are no facts. you dont think any of the stuff you have read about chris samuelson reflects badly on him? i find that remarkable if im honest he may not have done a thing wrong but the fact he already had 2 failed attempts to gain control over football clubs concerns me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofthenet Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 25 minutes ago, Barney_avfc said: I suppose he borrowed a few hundred million for a few days just to show the football league Tony had the cash and then gave it back. Then faked the entire RECON group? chris samuelson moves money around for a living, not beyond the realms of possibility he could move money from one bank account to another without xia owing any of it, there is no doubt RECON group exists but the wealth of the company is completely unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Nothing to be gained by guesswork. Happy to see what pans out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Quote this is only rumour but some people have suggested that samuelson has borrowed money to buy villa with xia as the front man and that any parachute payments and player sales would be funding us going forward, if promotion is then not achieved we could find ourseleves in alot of financial trouble in 18-24 months time Thing is, even if this were to be proven to true ( and there is virtually no circumstantial evidence to suggest it would, and absolutely no actual evidence), I'm not sure I'd complain. After all, if they alternative was ' no risk Lerner ' who has managed to lose loads of his own money and wreck us in the process, I'd take the above scenario which does after all include a desire to get promoted. Also, it doesn't appear (confirmed) there were many/any alternatives where some multi billionaire has been itching to squander his wealth on us, so the chances are that some form of leveraged finance could have been involved in any circumstances. Let's face it, whoever bought us, a failure to get promoted within the next two years could (have ) brought problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted June 19, 2016 Administrator Share Posted June 19, 2016 15 minutes ago, backofthenet said: you dont think any of the stuff you have read about chris samuelson reflects badly on him? i find that remarkable if im honest he may not have done a thing wrong but the fact he already had 2 failed attempts to gain control over football clubs concerns me Show me EVIDENCE not things people are repeating on the internet. There is nothing to "reflect" on anyone unless we know some facts. Please share the facts you've found about these two other bids. Assuming they actually exist, was he anything more than a middleman? How do you know he was trying to take control? Everything I've read suggests he's a middleman. Even if he was trying to take control, what exactly is wrong with that? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofthenet Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 8 minutes ago, limpid said: Show me EVIDENCE not things people are repeating on the internet. There is nothing to "reflect" on anyone unless we know some facts. Please share the facts you've found about these two other bids. Assuming they actually exist, was he anything more than a middleman? How do you know he was trying to take control? Everything I've read suggests he's a middleman. Even if he was trying to take control, what exactly is wrong with that? this is taken from the liverpool echo about chris samuelson He was conjured up by Bill Kenwright in 2004 when the Swiss based financier was head of a body called the Fortress Sports Fund, which promised to invest £12.8m in the Blues but ultimately failed to deliver a single penny. Paraded at an Everton AGM and introduced as a lifelong Evertonian, one doubting fan declared: “Who scored the winning goal in the 1966 FA Cup final?” Clearly stumped, Samuelson stuttered: “Errr, I was a student in Munich in 1966.” The promised investment proved equally as vague. On December 22 2004, Samuelson said: “Cash transfers can take three or four days and I hope it is with Everton by Christmas.” However the money had not materialised by January, and in February 2005, then chief executive Keith Wyness stated that the club had begun to look for other potential investors. Almost a decade later Samuelson became a director of Reading, but left the club in 2014 when the Royals became embroiled in serious financial difficulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted June 19, 2016 Administrator Share Posted June 19, 2016 1 minute ago, backofthenet said: this is taken from the liverpool echo about chris samuelson He was conjured up by Bill Kenwright in 2004 when the Swiss based financier was head of a body called the Fortress Sports Fund, which promised to invest £12.8m in the Blues but ultimately failed to deliver a single penny. Paraded at an Everton AGM and introduced as a lifelong Evertonian, one doubting fan declared: “Who scored the winning goal in the 1966 FA Cup final?” Clearly stumped, Samuelson stuttered: “Errr, I was a student in Munich in 1966.” The promised investment proved equally as vague. On December 22 2004, Samuelson said: “Cash transfers can take three or four days and I hope it is with Everton by Christmas.” However the money had not materialised by January, and in February 2005, then chief executive Keith Wyness stated that the club had begun to look for other potential investors. Almost a decade later Samuelson became a director of Reading, but left the club in 2014 when the Royals became embroiled in serious financial difficulties. Can you highlight how this answers any of my questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofthenet Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 6 minutes ago, limpid said: Can you highlight how this answers any of my questions? you asked for facts did you not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, backofthenet said: you asked for facts did you not? I think he was looking for facts to back up the wild accusations that he's the actual owner and Xia is just a front man. Sounds like something Shelley Ozzy might conjure up in one of her wilder moments. Edit - that and these two other bids. Edited June 19, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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