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Villa Park redevelopment


Phumfeinz

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9 minutes ago, Rich192 said:

Seeing as we can no longer claim that it’s a fortress, can we get cracking on the North Stand in the summer please, Christopher?

Nah. We need to max out that Champions League revenue.......

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FWIW I took a Stoke fan to the game yesterday (i know I know)

He was amazed at how nice the concourse was in the upper trinity, and how nice the ground was in general. He also couldn't believe how good the atmosphere was.

 

We compare ourselves to big clubs with huge grounds, and rightly so because that's where we need to aim.
But it's also worth remembering that compared to the vast majority of english football clubs, we have an incredible stadium and should be proud of it

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45 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

FWIW I took a Stoke fan to the game yesterday (i know I know)

He was amazed at how nice the concourse was in the upper trinity, and how nice the ground was in general. He also couldn't believe how good the atmosphere was.

 

We compare ourselves to big clubs with huge grounds, and rightly so because that's where we need to aim.
But it's also worth remembering that compared to the vast majority of english football clubs, we have an incredible stadium and should be proud of it

We do, but we're also targeting finishing in the top 4 places in England. Or, as prior to the season, at the very least the top 6. The stadium needs to be compared against those clubs, not Stoke's (no offence to the friend).

The Trinity being the newest of all our old stands also helps with its space. Take him to the North or the Holte and he wouldn't be as impressed with the space, although the atmosphere point is valid. It was good yesterday, as was the performance generally.

I remain in the group of people that want us to stay where we are and improve what we have, without losing the feel of Villa Park.  The space is there, we just have to be smarter with it, and accept playing with stands out of action for a while. With infrastructure spending rumoured to be coming into FFP calcs (confirmed?) it would be a shame for us to miss the boat before that happens. 

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57 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

We do, but we're also targeting finishing in the top 4 places in England. Or, as prior to the season, at the very least the top 6. The stadium needs to be compared against those clubs, not Stoke's (no offence to the friend).

 

 

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

We compare ourselves to big clubs with huge grounds, and rightly so because that's where we need to aim.

 

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We have and we were very close. I am still gutted about this decision from us.

Edit, and we have Way, way more space behind the North Stand than they had to work with.

Our renderings looked more impressive also.

Edited by Captain_Townsend
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3 hours ago, villan-scott said:

Liverpool have smashed their development and expansions haven’t they… we can only dream as the can gets kicked further down the road again. Wish we have ability to do this with what we have.

IMG-4253.jpg

 

We do have the ability- we have the land, and the approved plans ready to go, and yet for some reason, it's been pulled. In the time it's taken for Villa to rebuild the Trinity (which I noticed is now starting to rust) and procrastinate on the North Stand at least three times, Liverpool has gone from planning an entirely new stadium, buying out the neighborhood and building two new massive stands.

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34 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

We do have the ability- we have the land, and the approved plans ready to go, and yet for some reason, it's been pulled. In the time it's taken for Villa to rebuild the Trinity (which I noticed is now starting to rust) and procrastinate on the North Stand at least three times, Liverpool has gone from planning an entirely new stadium, buying out the neighborhood and building two new massive stands.

Buying out the neighbourhood and leaving properties empty to go derelict, decreasing the value of houses on the area,  and encourage others in the road to sell up and move out.

It's commendable that they've converted a stadium so massively in that timeframe, but how they've done it isn't something we want to emulate. 

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On 12/02/2024 at 08:37, Stevo985 said:

FWIW I took a Stoke fan to the game yesterday (i know I know)

He was amazed at how nice the concourse was in the upper trinity, and how nice the ground was in general. He also couldn't believe how good the atmosphere was.

 

We compare ourselves to big clubs with huge grounds, and rightly so because that's where we need to aim.
But it's also worth remembering that compared to the vast majority of english football clubs, we have an incredible stadium and should be proud of it

I travelled to and from the game with a Man Utd supporting friend and his son, they thought the atmosphere in the second half was amazing (his son said it was the best he'd heard), and they said that facilities were on a par with what they get at Old Trafford. I was very surprised to learn that they also struggle to get a drink and food at half time and have similar issues with the lack of space (they were in with the away fans and so comparing the Doug Ellis with their ground)

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6 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

Buying out the neighbourhood and leaving properties empty to go derelict, decreasing the value of houses on the area,  and encourage others in the road to sell up and move out.

It's commendable that they've converted a stadium so massively in that timeframe, but how they've done it isn't something we want to emulate. 

The point being we have even more space behind the North Stand, that's the whole point.

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4 hours ago, villan-scott said:

Liverpool have smashed their development and expansions haven’t they… we can only dream as the can gets kicked further down the road again. Wish we have ability to do this with what we have.

IMG-4253.jpg

 

They started with similar capacity to ours as well I believe right, then expanded again 

How long did it take them to get up to 60k in total, and did they achieve it with just one stand?

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16 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said:

The point being we have even more space behind the North Stand, that's the whole point.

This is why I asked the question above.

I wanted to know how they did it, how long it took and if they had the similar " space issues " etc .. but you've answered that I guess.

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7 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

They started with similar capacity to ours as well I believe right, then expanded again 

How long did it take them to get up to 60k in total, and did they achieve it with just one stand?

They did two stands, the old main stand and the Anfield Road end. They were very hemmed in on all sides but yes did it in an unethical way buying up houses and leaving them vacant.

 

Edited by Captain_Townsend
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Honestly the problems at Villa Park are very different to Anfield, I drive to games from Staffordshire (it takes me about 75 minutes), and i think that compared to teams like Liverpool we have a very high proportion of fans that drive to games due on the whole to terrible public transport in the area. This isn't something that Villa can fix, but everything relies on fans having easy and safe access to the ground. Parking in and around Villa park is an absolute joke, and it's unmanageable with the capacity as it is. In order to securely park my car i need to leave the house at least 2 1/2 hours before kick off. We supposedly have a season ticket waiting list in excess of 25,000 people, that means we could easily sell out 60,000 at home games, but our location makes that an impossible dream.

If we had some sustained success, it's not unreasonable to therefore think we could fill 70,000 seats, thats 20,000 over the planned capacity. 20,000 tickets at £50 per ticket is £1M per game in ticket income alone, add in a few pies and pints and you easily get into £1.3M per game.

Add also the cost of building stands while keeping the ground open, and i do wonder if the redevelopment of the ground might be having a total re-think. I can see us moving to a new ground near to the NEC (as Doug Ellis once wanted), or being held back more and more by our desire to stay at our spiritual home (none of which is even the same as when i was a kid, and hence nothing to be nostalgic about)..

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40 minutes ago, dukes said:

Honestly the problems at Villa Park are very different to Anfield, I drive to games from Staffordshire (it takes me about 75 minutes), and i think that compared to teams like Liverpool we have a very high proportion of fans that drive to games due on the whole to terrible public transport in the area. This isn't something that Villa can fix, but everything relies on fans having easy and safe access to the ground. Parking in and around Villa park is an absolute joke, and it's unmanageable with the capacity as it is. In order to securely park my car i need to leave the house at least 2 1/2 hours before kick off. We supposedly have a season ticket waiting list in excess of 25,000 people, that means we could easily sell out 60,000 at home games, but our location makes that an impossible dream.

If we had some sustained success, it's not unreasonable to therefore think we could fill 70,000 seats, thats 20,000 over the planned capacity. 20,000 tickets at £50 per ticket is £1M per game in ticket income alone, add in a few pies and pints and you easily get into £1.3M per game.

Add also the cost of building stands while keeping the ground open, and i do wonder if the redevelopment of the ground might be having a total re-think. I can see us moving to a new ground near to the NEC (as Doug Ellis once wanted), or being held back more and more by our desire to stay at our spiritual home (none of which is even the same as when i was a kid, and hence nothing to be nostalgic about)..

If you think traffic is bad in a 40,000 stadium in our current location with 2 railway stations,  near the city centre and M6, what would a 70,000 stadium look next to the NEC? Totally unsustainable location.

I don't see any big plans for us now, just gonna squeeze more revenue  out of the current set up. Basically big price rises for the same facilities.

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1 hour ago, dukes said:

I travelled to and from the game with a Man Utd supporting friend and his son, they thought the atmosphere in the second half was amazing (his son said it was the best he'd heard), and they said that facilities were on a par with what they get at Old Trafford. I was very surprised to learn that they also struggle to get a drink and food at half time and have similar issues with the lack of space (they were in with the away fans and so comparing the Doug Ellis with their ground)

Old Trafford is a decaying stadium that is desperately in need of an upgrade so it’s not a great barometer to judge our current facilities by. 

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1 hour ago, MrBlack said:

Buying out the neighbourhood and leaving properties empty to go derelict, decreasing the value of houses on the area,  and encourage others in the road to sell up and move out.

It's commendable that they've converted a stadium so massively in that timeframe, but how they've done it isn't something we want to emulate. 

Pretty sure that they started buying some of the properties well before 2014 too.  So the timeline stated in the picture is pretty obsolete.  The way they went about buying up properties is really not something that should be applauded or repeated if we do want to expand our current site.  They've also had to convert some of the surrounding houses into business properties because those are not impacted by light restriction measures.  If we do what Liverpool did then it is safe to say that most of Aston will despise Villa.

Edited by allani
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40 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

If you think traffic is bad in a 40,000 stadium in our current location with 2 railway stations,  near the city centre and M6, what would a 70,000 stadium look next to the NEC? Totally unsustainable location.

I don't see any big plans for us now, just gonna squeeze more revenue  out of the current set up. Basically big price rises for the same facilities.

It doesn't have to be the NEC, although i'd say the infrastructure there can handle it better than most. Theres plenty of space for additional parking, theres a large train station and plenty of buses that already head in that direction, theres hotels and an airport for those that have need. 

Absolutely nothing that these owners have done up until now has been anything other than first class, to think that they are just here to sit back and count the money from here on in seems frankly crazy.

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