tonyh29 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 2 hours ago, bickster said: Won't be much need for homes when we leave the EC anyway, there'll be no hard working European labour coming here to need new homes to rent and the rest will leave giving us plenty of empty properties to fill. Don't forget all the remainers who threatened / promised to leave as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted June 18, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2017 36 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Don't forget all the remainers who threatened / promised to leave as well Yeah, we probably won't be allowed after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 19th June ladies and gents, let negotiation commence 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 30 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: 19th June ladies and gents, let negotiation commence He does look rather German Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 19, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 19, 2017 From a Swiss newspaper, today: Quote This article in a Swiss newspaper today is so ruthlessly clear-sighted in its assessment of just how screwed we are that I just had to translate it for the non-German speakers. Hold on to your hats: THE LAUGHING STOCK OF EUROPE [Translation by Paula Kirby] If it weren't so serious, the situation in Great Britain would almost be comical. The country is being governed by a talking robot, nicknamed the Maybot, that somehow managed to visit the burned-out tower block in the west of London without speaking to a single survivor or voluntary helper. Negotiations for the country’s exit from the EU are due to begin on Monday, but no one has even a hint of a plan. The government is dependent on a small party that provides a cozy home for climate change deniers and creationists. Boris Johnson is Foreign Secretary. What in the world has happened to this country? Two years ago David Cameron emerged from the parliamentary election as the shining victor. He had secured an absolute majority, and as a result it looked as if the career of this cheerful lightweight was headed for surprisingly dizzy heights. The economy was growing faster than in any other industrialised country in the world. Scottish independence and, with it, the break-up of the United Kingdom had been averted. For the first time since 1992, there was a Conservative majority in the House of Commons. Great Britain saw itself as a universally respected actor on the international stage. This was the starting point. In order to get from this comfortable position to the chaos of the present in the shortest possible time, two things were necessary: first, the Conservative right wingers’ obsessive hatred of the EU, and second, Cameron’s irresponsibility in putting the whole future of the country on the line with his referendum, just to satisfy a few fanatics in his party. It is becoming ever clearer just how extraordinarily bad a decision that was. The fact that Great Britain has become the laughing stock of Europe is directly linked to its vote for Brexit. The ones who will suffer most will be the British people, who were lied to by the Brexit campaign during the referendum and betrayed and treated like idiots by elements of their press. The shamelessness still knows no bounds: the Daily Express has asked in all seriousness whether the inferno in the tower block was due to the cladding having been designed to meet EU standards. It is a simple matter to discover that the answer to this question is No, but by failing to check it, the newspaper has planted the suspicion that the EU might be to blame for this too. As an aside: a country in which parts of the press are so demonstrably uninterested in truth and exploit a disaster like the fire in Grenfell Tower for their own tasteless ends has a very serious problem. Already prices are rising in the shops, already inflation is on the up. Investors are holding back. Economic growth has slowed. And that’s before the Brexit negotiations have even begun. With her unnecessary general election, Prime Minister Theresa May has already squandered an eighth of the time available for them. How on earth an undertaking as complex as Brexit is supposed to be agreed in the time remaining is a mystery. Great Britain will end up leaving its most important trading partner and will be left weaker in every respect. It would make economic sense to stay in the single market and the customs union, but that would mean being subject to regulations over which Britain no longer had any say. It would be better to have stayed in the EU in the first place. So the government now needs to develop a plan that is both politically acceptable and brings the fewest possible economic disadvantages. It’s a question of damage limitation, nothing more; yet even now there are still politicians strutting around Westminster smugly trumpeting that it will be the EU that comes off worst if it doesn’t toe the line. The EU is going to be dealing with a government that has no idea what kind of Brexit it wants, led by an unrealistic politician whose days are numbered; and a party in which old trenches are being opened up again: moderate Tories are currently hoping to be able to bring about a softer exit after all, but the hardliners in the party – among them more than a few pigheadedly obstinate ideologues – are already threatening rebellion. An epic battle lies ahead, and it will paralyse the government. EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier has said that he now expects the Brits to finally set out their position clearly, since he cannot negotiate with himself. The irony of this statement is that it would actually be in Britain’s best interests if he did just that. At least that way they’d have one representative on their side who grasps the scale of the task and is actually capable of securing a deal that will be fair to both sides. The Brits do not have a single negotiator of this stature in their ranks. And quite apart from the Brexit terms, both the debate and the referendum have proven to be toxic in ways that are now making themselves felt. British society is now more divided than at any time since the English civil war in the 17th century, a fact that was demonstrated anew in the general election, in which a good 80% of the votes were cast for the two largest parties. Neither of these parties was offering a centrist programme: the election was a choice between the hard right and the hard left. The political centre has been abandoned, and that is never a good sign. In a country like Great Britain, that for so long had a reputation for pragmatism and rationality, it is grounds for real concern. The situation is getting decidedly out of hand. After the loss of its empire, the United Kingdom sought a new place in the world. It finally found it, as a strong, awkward and influential part of a larger union: the EU. Now it has given up this place quite needlessly. The consequence, as is now becoming clear, is a veritable identity crisis from which it will take the country a very long time to recover. Link 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 24 minutes ago, mjmooney said: From a Swiss newspaper, today: Link It's a good read, albeit a bit over the top. The UK is still Europe's second largest economy and our negotiators need to remember that. We shouldn't be putting our tails between our legs because the trade that the EU does with us is also significant. I wasn't for brexit but I still think it's important that we gather as a country and remain strong in these negotiations, be that for a soft or a strong break. The EU needs to understand that reform is needed. People like Junker and Verhofstadt need to be removed and replaced with proper politicians who know a thing or two about solidarity. The reaction to EU wasn't only based on the brexit media campaigns and Nigel Farage, it was also based on a lot of disdain for a system that have shown no ability to reform and keep up with the systems around them for over 30 years. The EU has a very clear challenge with its richer members. There is huge sentiments of frustration in Netherlands, France, Denmark, Sweden and Norway (I know, not an EU member but part of the single market). There has to be a balance adopted to make sure that everyone gets heard instead of this forced system that we are currently seeing. Germany will not be able to carry the load it is carrying for much longer - and the issues that Merkel has left that country with are bigger than most people think. In my eyes an approach like that of Norway would probably be best for our country. It would still leave us with some of the EU legislation but we'd be able to control it to a bigger extent. We need to make deals with America, Australia, India, Pakistan and the bigger Asian blocks asap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 41 minutes ago, mjmooney said: From a Swiss newspaper, today: Meh “500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 19, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: Meh “500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.” You of all people forgetting Toblerone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: Meh “500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.” Also, coming from a country that isn't a member of the EU and never would be it's a bit rich. The irony of the most protected economy in the world telling someone who's trying to do something similar that they're stupid is a good joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, bickster said: You of all people forgetting Toblerone yeah I know , but it's a famous quote from a film and I just wanted to use it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Also, coming from a country that isn't a member of the EU and never would be it's a bit rich. The irony of the most protected economy in the world telling someone who's trying to do something similar that they're stupid is a good joke. they had a finance minister a few years back who "out Borised" Boris by calling a German minister a jackbooted Nazi , so not even sure they have the right to go after us on the Boris front either Edited June 19, 2017 by tonyh29 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 19, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) Who is 'they'? It wasn't a statement by the Swiss government, it was an opinion piece by a journalist who happens to be Swiss. Does that make it any less valid? Edited June 19, 2017 by mjmooney 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 19, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 minute ago, magnkarl said: Also, coming from a country that isn't a member of the EU and never would be it's a bit rich. The irony of the most protected economy in the world telling someone who's trying to do something similar that they're stupid is a good joke. We are not by any stretch of any imagination trying to do something similar to Switzerland They have full access to the single market and as a result, have to accept free movement of people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) Switzerland also gives their own workers advantage over EU applicants when people apply for jobs. They're more Eurosceptic than we are by far. It's a miracle to me that they're even allowed to remain in the customs union with the amount of negativity their politicians spout about EU. Swiss law: Quote The new law, to which the EU is expected to respond formally next week, requires employers in sectors or regions with above-average unemployment to advertise vacancies at job centres and give locals priority before recruiting from abroad. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/16/switzerland-u-turn-quotas-on-eu-workers-immigration Edited June 19, 2017 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 minute ago, bickster said: We are not by any stretch of any imagination trying to do something similar to Switzerland They have full access to the single market and as a result, have to accept free movement of people Free movement, yeah, but preferential treatment of their own workers over EU workers. If there's no jobs for EU migrants they don't really show up as much. The EU has a hard argument to have with the UK about why they let Switzerland do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 19, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, magnkarl said: Free movement, yeah, but preferential treatment of their own workers over EU workers. If there's no jobs for EU migrants they don't really show up as much. The EU has a hard argument to have with the UK about why they let Switzerland do that. You know the EU haven't actually responded to that but are about to Here's a prediction for you... EU says No, Switzerland say OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, bickster said: You know the EU haven't actually responded to that but are about to Here's a prediction for you... EU says No, Switzerland say OK It all depends on how our negotiations go. Switzerland have been given a good run by the EU for a long time. I wouldn't be surprised if it was allowed to do this either. They'll argue about capital and investment. It's a really interesting twist to the whole brexit picture, essentially almost a hard border concept by pushing job availability for immigrants out of the picture. What our negotiators will ask for, even if Maybot stays in power, is a good a question as any. No one really knows what they want. Maybe we should hire in some Swiss negotiators and have them hold the same line they do with their internal negotiations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, mjmooney said: From a Swiss newspaper, today: Link I wouldn't deny the Swiss the right to slag us off but you have to give such a piece about as much credence as a column by Clarkson having a go at the French or Germans. It should be objected to on the grounds that comparing present divisions within the UK with the Civil War, where one in ten of the male population died, is hyperbolic to say the least. It is clear that we have always been divided ethnically, regionally, and more importantly, by class. And you can't help laughing at the Swiss ridiculing the UK for creating 'chaos' using the same direct democracy (the referendum) which is at the heart of the Swiss political system. I think the assumption that criticism by foreigners should be given more weight than our own, is wrong. But it has to be said that the Swiss do have an axe to grind because in the interest of trade they have meekly accepted most of the demands of the EU, which have had a negative affect on their country, and it would really upset the political apple cart if the UK got all the privileges without the social costs imposed by the EU. So probably a satisfying read for the Swiss but nothing knew for the Brits, really. Edited June 19, 2017 by MakemineVanilla 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NurembergVillan Posted June 19, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2017 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: The EU typically hiding their problems and coming to the table looking organised but without the blessing/support of many member states. It's a bit like the 'Health of the EU' survey! Edited June 19, 2017 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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