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The now-enacted will of (some of) the people


blandy

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4 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

It's also interesting that all the major points of contention (VAT, level playing field provisions, Stormont consent mechanism, customs border in the Irish Sea), the UK has capitulated on and agreed to the EU position. 

The difference between political rhetoric and political reality. 

Facts. Therefore, don't matter.

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2 minutes ago, Awol said:

You’re ahead of me mate, do you have a link to the treaty text? 

There's a link to the text (11:19) on the Grauniad live page:

Quote

Text of new Brexit agreement published

Barnier says the text of the agreement is now available.

It is here (pdf) - all 64 pages of it. These are the revisions to the withdrawal agreement. The rest of the agreement as negotiated by Theresa May still stands.

 

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1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

Does that dispute anything I said?

He led the leave campaign because it was good for his career.

He isn't a leaver. He isn't a remainer.

He's a Boris'er.

I'm incredibly surprised he's suckered you in.

I don’t really care what he believes in his heart of hearts, it’s not a theological test. The simple fact is he led the Leave campaign, won the referendum, became PM & now has a deal that - at the least - removed the backstop. 

Objectively that’s a pretty good effort. 
 

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1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

So we should just accept the total shite that BJ gets us, because it's better than No Deal?

I'm sorry, but no. There are other options than 'Shit Deal' or 'No Deal'.

So you think no deal is better? Thats the worst possible outcome.

 

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Just now, Demitri_C said:

So you think no deal is better? Thats the worst possible outcome.

 

I have absolute zero idea how you've read what I wrote, and got THAT as your conclusion to my opinion.

I even said:

Quote

There are other options than 'Shit Deal' or 'No Deal'.

 

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21 minutes ago, Awol said:

Not read it yet so can’t offer an informed opinion, but it’s interesting that points that could never be negotiated or removed, like the backstop, clearly have been - confirmed by Barnier. 
 

That’s the difference between having a Remainer and a Leaver as PM.

Or, the difference between having someone with a reasonable amount of sense versus a reckless, incompetent, egotistical posh tw@t.

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got to love the opposition  , tie one hand behind the governments back and force them to try and get a deal   , get a deal and they say well it's not a deal we can vote for 

As @Awol  says , Sat should put an end to their charade  

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3 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Or, the difference between having someone with a reasonable amount of sense versus a reckless, incompetent, egotistical posh tw@t.

If you prefer. Fact is May said the withdrawal agreement couldn’t be reopened. So did Brussels, Dublin, Paris & Berlin. Not only has it been reopened but the backstop has been removed which the same bunch of people said could never happen. 
 

I don’t like Johnson either, he’s a giant bell. But, he’s done the things that for last two years we’ve all been told couldn’t be done. That’s pretty good going, posh boy or not. 

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47 minutes ago, bickster said:

True, I still cant see it passing though

Your right it's not gonna pass so we back to a risk of no deal another period of uncertainess. 

Personally as I have said before do a referendum on this deal or stay in. Put it to the people and let us decide not these clowns.

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Just now, Awol said:

If you prefer. Fact is May said the withdrawal agreement couldn’t be reopened. So did Brussels, Dublin, Paris & Berlin. Not only has it been reopened but the backstop has been removed which the same bunch of people said could never happen. 
 

I don’t like Johnson either, he’s a giant bell. But, he’s done the things that for last two years we’ve all been told couldn’t be done. That’s pretty good going, posh boy or not. 

Instead, we have a border down the irish sea, which we were told would never happen.

But if it means Brexit happens, useful idiots won't care a jot.

Ho hum.

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1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

What options are these then? 

 

2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Personally as I have said before do a referendum on this deal or stay in. Put it to the people and let us decide not these clowns.

Dem, please. You gave two others yourself! 

Edited by StefanAVFC
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3 minutes ago, Awol said:

If you prefer. Fact is May said the withdrawal agreement couldn’t be reopened. So did Brussels, Dublin, Paris & Berlin. Not only has it been reopened but the backstop has been removed which the same bunch of people said could never happen. 
 

I don’t like Johnson either, he’s a giant bell. But, he’s done the things that for last two years we’ve all been told couldn’t be done. That’s pretty good going, posh boy or not. 

Absolutely. I'm not a fan either but he has shown he can do things that couldn't  be done.

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1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

 

Dem, please. You gave two others yourself! 

I'm abit confused at what you want stefan? Do you want to say in the EU? 

I was referring to what deal you think they could do that would be better leaving as that's what I thought you was implying !

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2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I'm abit confused at what you want stefan? Do you want to say in the EU? 

I was referring to what deal you think they could do that would be better leaving as that's what I thought you was implying !

What are you talking about? :D 

I want to remain, or a deal that actually fulfills 52-48 as an outcome (like Norway). I've given up on the 2nd option, but the 1st is possible with a confirmatory vote on this deal. Politicians have been allowed to change their minds numerous times, but we can't have another say, 3.5 years later?

This deal is hard Brexit with a border down the Irish sea.

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11 minutes ago, Awol said:

If you prefer. Fact is May said the withdrawal agreement couldn’t be reopened. So did Brussels, Dublin, Paris & Berlin. Not only has it been reopened but the backstop has been removed which the same bunch of people said could never happen. 
 

I don’t like Johnson either, he’s a giant bell. But, he’s done the things that for last two years we’ve all been told couldn’t be done. That’s pretty good going, posh boy or not. 

Except we've largely gone back, haven't we, to something that was rejected previously by, amongst other people, Johnson himself?

It doesn't really add up unless:

this is a feint as per the tweet above from the Grauniad lady,

or that the intention is to get it voted through initially but to have the Implementation Bill fail,

or that the intention is to get it voted through and agreed but for the Implementation Bill to put the WA in to jeopardy straight away.

Edited by snowychap
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