StefanAVFC Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, ml1dch said: It's also interesting that all the major points of contention (VAT, level playing field provisions, Stormont consent mechanism, customs border in the Irish Sea), the UK has capitulated on and agreed to the EU position. The difference between political rhetoric and political reality. Facts. Therefore, don't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Awol said: You’re ahead of me mate, do you have a link to the treaty text? There's a link to the text (11:19) on the Grauniad live page: Quote Text of new Brexit agreement published Barnier says the text of the agreement is now available. It is here (pdf) - all 64 pages of it. These are the revisions to the withdrawal agreement. The rest of the agreement as negotiated by Theresa May still stands. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Facts don't matter. And people continue to be fooled by these liars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: Does that dispute anything I said? He led the leave campaign because it was good for his career. He isn't a leaver. He isn't a remainer. He's a Boris'er. I'm incredibly surprised he's suckered you in. I don’t really care what he believes in his heart of hearts, it’s not a theological test. The simple fact is he led the Leave campaign, won the referendum, became PM & now has a deal that - at the least - removed the backstop. Objectively that’s a pretty good effort. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, snowychap said: There's a link to the text (11:19) on the Grauniad live page: Danke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Staggering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: So we should just accept the total shite that BJ gets us, because it's better than No Deal? I'm sorry, but no. There are other options than 'Shit Deal' or 'No Deal'. So you think no deal is better? Thats the worst possible outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Demitri_C said: So you think no deal is better? Thats the worst possible outcome. I have absolute zero idea how you've read what I wrote, and got THAT as your conclusion to my opinion. I even said: Quote There are other options than 'Shit Deal' or 'No Deal'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, Awol said: Not read it yet so can’t offer an informed opinion, but it’s interesting that points that could never be negotiated or removed, like the backstop, clearly have been - confirmed by Barnier. That’s the difference between having a Remainer and a Leaver as PM. Or, the difference between having someone with a reasonable amount of sense versus a reckless, incompetent, egotistical posh tw@t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 got to love the opposition , tie one hand behind the governments back and force them to try and get a deal , get a deal and they say well it's not a deal we can vote for As @Awol says , Sat should put an end to their charade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Or, the difference between having someone with a reasonable amount of sense versus a reckless, incompetent, egotistical posh tw@t. If you prefer. Fact is May said the withdrawal agreement couldn’t be reopened. So did Brussels, Dublin, Paris & Berlin. Not only has it been reopened but the backstop has been removed which the same bunch of people said could never happen. I don’t like Johnson either, he’s a giant bell. But, he’s done the things that for last two years we’ve all been told couldn’t be done. That’s pretty good going, posh boy or not. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 47 minutes ago, bickster said: True, I still cant see it passing though Your right it's not gonna pass so we back to a risk of no deal another period of uncertainess. Personally as I have said before do a referendum on this deal or stay in. Put it to the people and let us decide not these clowns. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Awol said: If you prefer. Fact is May said the withdrawal agreement couldn’t be reopened. So did Brussels, Dublin, Paris & Berlin. Not only has it been reopened but the backstop has been removed which the same bunch of people said could never happen. I don’t like Johnson either, he’s a giant bell. But, he’s done the things that for last two years we’ve all been told couldn’t be done. That’s pretty good going, posh boy or not. Instead, we have a border down the irish sea, which we were told would never happen. But if it means Brexit happens, useful idiots won't care a jot. Ho hum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I have absolute zero idea how you've read what I wrote, and got THAT as your conclusion to my opinion. I even said: What options are these then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: What options are these then? 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Personally as I have said before do a referendum on this deal or stay in. Put it to the people and let us decide not these clowns. Dem, please. You gave two others yourself! Edited October 17, 2019 by StefanAVFC 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Awol said: If you prefer. Fact is May said the withdrawal agreement couldn’t be reopened. So did Brussels, Dublin, Paris & Berlin. Not only has it been reopened but the backstop has been removed which the same bunch of people said could never happen. I don’t like Johnson either, he’s a giant bell. But, he’s done the things that for last two years we’ve all been told couldn’t be done. That’s pretty good going, posh boy or not. Absolutely. I'm not a fan either but he has shown he can do things that couldn't be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: Dem, please. You gave two others yourself! I'm abit confused at what you want stefan? Do you want to say in the EU? I was referring to what deal you think they could do that would be better leaving as that's what I thought you was implying ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I'm abit confused at what you want stefan? Do you want to say in the EU? I was referring to what deal you think they could do that would be better leaving as that's what I thought you was implying ! What are you talking about? I want to remain, or a deal that actually fulfills 52-48 as an outcome (like Norway). I've given up on the 2nd option, but the 1st is possible with a confirmatory vote on this deal. Politicians have been allowed to change their minds numerous times, but we can't have another say, 3.5 years later? This deal is hard Brexit with a border down the Irish sea. Edited October 17, 2019 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Awol said: If you prefer. Fact is May said the withdrawal agreement couldn’t be reopened. So did Brussels, Dublin, Paris & Berlin. Not only has it been reopened but the backstop has been removed which the same bunch of people said could never happen. I don’t like Johnson either, he’s a giant bell. But, he’s done the things that for last two years we’ve all been told couldn’t be done. That’s pretty good going, posh boy or not. Except we've largely gone back, haven't we, to something that was rejected previously by, amongst other people, Johnson himself? It doesn't really add up unless: this is a feint as per the tweet above from the Grauniad lady, or that the intention is to get it voted through initially but to have the Implementation Bill fail, or that the intention is to get it voted through and agreed but for the Implementation Bill to put the WA in to jeopardy straight away. Edited October 17, 2019 by snowychap 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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