The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[one_ian_taylor]

On 13/02/2023 at 08:35, Genie said:

I was wondering last night why Sunak is pushing for this now. They are already dead at the next election so why rock the boat?

I came to the conclusion they believe Labour will rebuild our relationship with the EU and dine out on the inevitable improvement in our economy. I guess if the Tories get the ball rolling before being booted out they can spend their time in opposition saying the economic benefits the UK are seeing is down to them.

Was thinking about this today. In some ways it feels politically risky for the Tories. Row back now and they are the ones who have "betrayed Brexit", also opening the door for Labour to cash in. Whereas if they leave it to Labour, then they can use it to political advantage  - "Labour  never backed leave, blah, blah, blah". But it's  maybe that the numbers have changed that  much and everything is so **** that they have no other choice

[Genie]

10 hours ago, one_ian_taylor said:

Was thinking about this today. In some ways it feels politically risky for the Tories. Row back now and they are the ones who have "betrayed Brexit", also opening the door for Labour to cash in. Whereas if they leave it to Labour, then they can use it to political advantage  - "Labour  never backed leave, blah, blah, blah". But it's  maybe that the numbers have changed that  much and everything is so **** that they have no other choice

I think the Tories know that public opinion has changed on Brexit now. Of course there are the real hardcore who enjoy shooting themselves in the feet but the majority are aligned with the fact it was a bad idea that needs to be rectified.

The Tories know if they don’t do it then Labour will, and also get the kudos for correcting the stranded ship.

I can see Sunak as opposition leader already at the dispatch box talking about how it was the Tories who fixed the economy (conveniently forgetting they broke it in the first place) and Labour were going to do nothing.

[one_ian_taylor]

51 minutes ago, Genie said:

I think the Tories know that public opinion has changed on Brexit now. Of course there are the real hardcore who enjoy shooting themselves in the feet but the majority are aligned with the fact it was a bad idea that needs to be rectified.

The Tories know if they don’t do it then Labour will, and also get the kudos for correcting the stranded ship.

I can see Sunak as opposition leader already at the dispatch box talking about how it was the Tories who fixed the economy (conveniently forgetting they broke it in the first place) and Labour were going to do nothing.

I'm  not sure how much kudos they get when it's  a situation they've created. But once trust in economic competency goes, it takes a long time to rebuild. It often feels like Labour get a lot of credit for late 90s/early 00s economic upturn (when things were on the up anyway after the 92 recession). Similarly, we've had years of tiresome  rhetoric about why the global crash of 2008 and subsequent increase in  borrowing means that Labout should never run the economy again. 

[Genie]

Whilst we know many people backed it from all parties, Brexit is very much linked to this Tory government. Whoever comes in and reverses some of the harmful impacts of it will rightly get some credit.

I think what is happening in the Tory party now is an attempt to avoid/reduce Labour being able to claim this.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Genie

[Stevo985]

22 minutes ago, Genie said:

Whilst we know many people backed it from all parties, Brexit is very much linked to this Tory government.

I agree.

And I think public opinion is shifting from "Got Brexit done" to "**** Brexit up"

[Genie]

4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I agree.

And I think public opinion is shifting from "Got Brexit done" to "**** Brexit up"

It’s finally being talked about openly in the printed press, on social media and on the TV news. Brexit has been a disaster with  fewer and fewer people attempting to suggest otherwise.

It’s taken a long time to get here.

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

It’s finally being talked about openly in the printed press, on social media and on the TV news. Brexit has been a disaster with  fewer and fewer people attempting to suggest otherwise.

It’s taken a long time to get here.

Imagine this 4 second video slowed down and stretched out over 7 years and that's pretty much a good representation on how it's gone.

 

[chrisp65]

There was nothing wrong with the concept of Brexit. It’s just been derailed by the left wing economic establishment and Steve Bray.

 

[bickster]

34 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

There was nothing wrong with the concept of Brexit. It’s just been derailed by the left wing economic establishment and Steve Bray.

 

And Michael Heseltine if you believe Elizabeth Oakshite and Richard Louse

[Genie]

I’d love to hear more about “Brexit has failed because of the remainers”.

Its a hilariously pathetic excuse I hope they stick with it. 

[chrisp65]

A cabal of shadowy remainers and trans kids pulling all the strings behind the Bank of England, Channel 4, and the London Stock Exchange.

I bet half of them never even fought in the war, not that we get any thanks for that anyway.

Can’t even say Lilt anymore.

Love to the family.

 

 

 

[sidcow]

26 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Can’t even say Lilt anymore.

**** me, are you putting me in with that group now?

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

A cabal of shadowy remainers and trans kids pulling all the strings behind the Bank of England, Channel 4, and the London Stock Exchange.

I bet half of them never even fought in the war, not that we get any thanks for that anyway.

Can’t even say Lilt anymore.

Love to the family.

 

 

 

Glad I went to Barry Island Butlins in 1984 now. Helped keep it going for a couple more years when it was on its knees. 

[tonyh29]

28 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Glad I went to Barry Island Butlins in 1984 now. Helped keep it going for a couple more years when it was on its knees. 

I think you were paying over the odds , that sort of thing was much cheaper round the back of Safeway on Dock view road 

[chrisp65]

2 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Glad I went to Barry Island Butlins in 1984 now. Helped keep it going for a couple more years when it was on its knees. 

Butlins ‘84, jeesh those were mad old days, formative years for me.

The town was being closed down by old strokey face, the miners’ strike was properly kicking in and impacting what was left of the docks. Police from outside the area cruising around looking for people to fight.

I mentioned BIRA a couple of days ago, a couple of the nutters were still in to that and got caught by the police with a milk crate full of Molotov cocktails. When they were asked what they were doing, you’d expect them to say they’d just found them and were handing them in, no no ‘we’re gonna bomb Butlins again’. Dickheads.

 

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

I think you were paying over the odds , that sort of thing was much cheaper round the back of Safeway on Dock view road 

No Safeway on Dock View Road. But there was a milk depot. I can confirm this, because I stole a milk float. The thing could either go ‘surprisingly fast’ or it could turn corners. But it couldn’t do both at the same time, and I ended up in someone’s garden covered in gold top.

 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Butlins ‘84, jeesh those were mad old days, formative years for me.

Same for me,  I was there in 1984 or 85.  Loved it.  Never ever ever bored.

I started playing Snooker and Pool there and never stopped and ended up really good at both.

As a 12 year old I thought it was an amazing place.  Brilliant memories.

[sidcow]

10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

No Safeway on Dock View Road. But there was a milk depot. I can confirm this, because I stole a milk float. The thing could either go ‘surprisingly fast’ or it could turn corners. But it couldn’t do both at the same time, and I ended up in someone’s garden covered in gold top.

 

Cream always rises to the top. 

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Same for me,  I was there in 1984 or 85.  Loved it.  Never ever ever bored.

I started playing Snooker and Pool there and never stopped and ended up really good at both.

As a 12 year old I thought it was an amazing place.  Brilliant memories.

Christ, we may have been there at the same time.  The Los Angeles Olympics were on. 

I just rode in The Bumper Cars and the cake mixer fairground ride endlessly. 

I recall holding the bar at the side of the swimming pool, looking at my hand and it was covered in black tar. 

Oh, and Christopher Reeves Superman was on at the Cinema seemingly every day. 

[tonyh29]

14 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

No Safeway on Dock View Road. But there was a milk depot. I can confirm this, because I stole a milk float. The thing could either go ‘surprisingly fast’ or it could turn corners. But it couldn’t do both at the same time, and I ended up in someone’s garden covered in gold top.

 

that sounds very similar to sidcow's Barry Island experience