bickster Posted February 1, 2018 Moderator Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: The only slight problem I can see with the data above is that it correlates with the polls from before the referendum. And they were wrong. Data is from 7 days after the referendum to now. It's just a graph of what all the polls conducted have said polls are polls, take each individual one with a pinch of salt but im talking about the trend that been indicated by all polls by all companies since th3 middle of last summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 1, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted February 1, 2018 9 hours ago, peterms said: The situation is chamging by the week, or more frequently. New options will emerge, variations on what previously seemed an invariable position. The fragile coalition within the tory party will break up. ..... Both parties have to change their policy. The process of doing so is fraught with difficulty, and has to be handled with extreme sensitivity. So far, Labour is managing that process better than the tories. The downside is that to some people, it looks "indecisive". If I were in their position, that's a criticism I could live with. I think the cracks in the Tory party are more visible, but beyond that I don’t think either party has a “policy”. Both have some words they say, but nothing remotely credible. It’s not so much a look of indecision, but haplessness and cluelessness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, bickster said: How many miles per hour is that implication? I said it was a consistent trend in the polls for remain to be ahead (since last summer to be precise) Not once did I mention speed (or massively either - but that was someone else not you) Since you're subtweeting* me here, I will point out that your initial implication was that this 'trend' would require Labour to alter its policy stance or lose votes. A 'trend' that requires a microscope to observe is hardly sufficient to necessitate a change in major policy plank. *maybe subposting? Not sure on nomenclature Edited February 1, 2018 by HanoiVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 1, 2018 Moderator Share Posted February 1, 2018 19 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Since you're subtweeting* me here, I will point out that your initial implication was that this 'trend' would require Labour to alter its policy stance or lose votes. A 'trend' that requires a microscope to observe is hardly sufficient to necessitate a change in major policy plank. *maybe subposting? Not sure on nomenclature World of difference between would and should. I'm definitely not of the the opinion that Labour will alter its stance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, bickster said: World of difference between would and should. I'm definitely not of the the opinion that Labour will alter its stance Okay, why 'should' Labour change their policy position based on a gain of . . . *attaches monocle and looks at What UK Thinks* . . . 4% in the 'Remain' vote from the lowest point on the chart to today? We aren't talking here about whether it's a good idea generally, you specifically said that they would lose voters unless they changed stance based on this 'trend'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 18 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Okay, why 'should' Labour change their policy position based on a gain of . . . *attaches monocle and looks at What UK Thinks* . . . 4% in the 'Remain' vote from the lowest point on the chart to today? Labour achieved over 50% of remainer voters in the last GE , regardless of those people being Tory , Green or Lib dem etc .... helped presumably by their policy of fence sitting that he still managed to come second , suggests his team were able to carry the balancing act off without alienating too many Labour supporters who want to leave it would seem a huge risk therefore for him to come fully in the leave camp ..or full in the remain camp for the matter Best bet would be for May to get unplugged and a fully committed Brexiter put in charge of the Tory party ... then you'll possibly see a real alternative if Corbyn moved towards remain until that point we are just going around with politicians reacting to polls and the way they wind is blowing and that isn't helping anyone , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 1, 2018 Moderator Share Posted February 1, 2018 8 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Okay, why 'should' Labour change their policy position based on a gain of . . . *attaches monocle and looks at What UK Thinks* . . . 4% in the 'Remain' vote from the lowest point on the chart to today? We aren't talking here about whether it's a good idea generally, you specifically said that they would lose voters unless they changed stance based on this 'trend'. They should change because: The vast majority of their membership are remain The vast majority of their MP's are remain Almost all of the Unions (exception - the RMT), their financial backers are remain Even most of their newer members - Momentum - primarily of a younger demographic are remain Its a more honest reflection of the Party and I'm of the opinion that as time goes on and the Labour leadership, currently completely out of touch with the wishes of its members and backers, will lose votes. They can't hold their current position and not do that IMO The fact that the polls are showing that the country's opinion also seems to have shifted albeit slightly just backs up the assertion that the Labour leadership's stance is somewhat misguided (I'm being generous there) I'm of the opinion that they won't change until it's too late and that their current saying one thing and hinting at something completely different position will bite them on the arse. It has to be better to get ahead of this than to be seen jumping on a bandwagon at a later stage. Add to that that they are the opposition and they are supposed to be opposing the government not backing them at every crucial vote in the Commons on this. The idea that man like Corbyn who supposedly hates the Tories with a passion is backing them on the wanton destruction of the countries economy is actually quite bizarre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 51 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: until that point we are just going around with politicians reacting to polls and the way they wind is blowing and that isn't helping anyone , It's the polls stopping the Government working out what it wants from this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 1, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: Labour achieved over 50% of remainer voters in the last GE , regardless of those people being Tory , Green or Lib dem etc .... helped presumably by their policy of fence sitting that he still managed to come second , suggests his team were able to carry the balancing act off without alienating too many Labour supporters who want to leave it would seem a huge risk therefore for him to come fully in the leave camp ..or full in the remain camp for the matter Best bet would be for May to get unplugged and a fully committed Brexiter put in charge of the Tory party ... then you'll possibly see a real alternative if Corbyn moved towards remain until that point we are just going around with politicians reacting to polls and the way they wind is blowing and that isn't helping anyone , I agree with nearly all of that, except for the underlying factor you are (perhaps) ignoring, which is that there's a ticking clock. Sitting on the fence is kind of an option for a while, but come the fork in the road you need to get off the pot and back one horse or the other. so Labour in particular needs to change its stance because of that. [This post was brought to you in assocciation with mangled metaphors plc.] 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 23 minutes ago, ml1dch said: It's the polls stopping the Government working out what it wants from this? well it's clear they want to get rid of May ... and presumably would replace with a hard liner who could possibly then say to Europe go fornicate with yourself and see how that plays out ( insert planes in sky line here ) trouble is polls are kinda suggesting that may now not be popular with Jo public , hence we carry on with a wishy washy approach that we are currently getting same with labour .. so what I thought I was arguing was , lets stop pissing about and have clear Leave and Remain parties rather than errm what shall we do this week parties of course with a bit more thought that doesn't necessarily help as the next GE would be after Independence Day , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 1, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 1, 2018 I'll happily take a rifle to anyone calling it Independence Day. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) tbf my first choice was Freedom Day but that sounded too much like the Jock thing Edited February 1, 2018 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Solitary Confinement Day? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Naughty step day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 1, 2018 Moderator Share Posted February 1, 2018 Self Harming Awareness Day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Surrender in Europe Day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 1, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 1, 2018 FS Day* ***** Stupid Day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Senpaku day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Quote Farage, Banks and Bannon. They are some of the well-known Bad Boys of Brexit. But there are many more. The Bad Boys of Brexit are an unholy alliance. They are global Money Men, small-state Regulation Burners and people with highly questionable Russian Connections , some of whom have undermined the very foundations of democracy... ... These are the men (for they are predominantly men) who bankrolled and facilitated Brexit – and, in some cases, stood to make very large personal profits from it. They include some of the very wealthiest members of a global elite. The Bad Boys of Brexit alliance came together before and during the referendum campaign. It attracted far-right ideologues, climate change deniers, tax-dodging foreign billionaires, specialists in voter manipulation, a convicted fraudster and a political operative described by David Cameron as “a career psychopath”. Here we have compiled a list of these Bad Boys. Bad Boys Of Brexit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 48 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Senpaku day isn't it Seppuku ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts