mjmooney Posted March 30, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 30, 2023 I know I've done this before (I've a feeling we had a thread called something like 'Most Overrated Singer') but... I don't get the reputation of Karen Carpenter. People go on about the expressiveness of her singing. I don't hear any. Her voice to my ears is... flat. Not in a pitching sense, obviously - she was technically perfect. Clinically so, in fact. Sterile. Antiseptic. But the very definition of emotionless. The choice of material didn't help, but between the anodyne arrangements and her insipid voice, they managed to make even decent songs sound bland. The original of Ticket to Ride had that chiming Harrison guitar, and Lennon's trademark rasp. The Carpenters version was just pap. The exception that proves the rule? Goodbye to Love. Not because of bland Karen (imagine what a Linda Ronstadt or a Bonnie Raitt could have done with such a desolate heartbreak song), but purely because of Tony Peloso's blistering (one take!) guitar solos. A 'Best of the Carpenters' album would just have that one track, for me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 My favourite version of Ticket To Ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Seat68 said: My favourite version of Ticket To Ride I quite like Hüsker Dü/Bob Mould, but what an awful mix. Drums too high, vocals buried. Was it a live recording? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 minute ago, mjmooney said: I quite like Hüsker Dü/Bob Mould, but what an awful mix. Drums too high, vocals buried. Was it a live recording? It was Mike, I think it was in London, its very muddy, to be polite, but there is something about it I like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2023 Just now, Seat68 said: It was Mike, I think it was in London, its very muddy, to be polite, but there is something about it I like. Yeah. Sounds like an audience recorded bootleg. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 14 hours ago, mjmooney said: I know I've done this before (I've a feeling we had a thread called something like 'Most Overrated Singer') but... I don't get the reputation of Karen Carpenter. People go on about the expressiveness of her singing. I don't hear any. Her voice to my ears is... flat. Not in a pitching sense, obviously - she was technically perfect. Clinically so, in fact. Sterile. Antiseptic. But the very definition of emotionless. The choice of material didn't help, but between the anodyne arrangements and her insipid voice, they managed to make even decent songs sound bland. The original of Ticket to Ride had that chiming Harrison guitar, and Lennon's trademark rasp. The Carpenters version was just pap. The exception that proves the rule? Goodbye to Love. Not because of bland Karen (imagine what a Linda Ronstadt or a Bonnie Raitt could have done with such a desolate heartbreak song), but purely because of Tony Peloso's blistering (one take!) guitar solos. A 'Best of the Carpenters' album would just have that one track, for me. I don't know what the exact expression is but it is something like 'colour', but whatever it is called the great jazz, soul and rock singers had it, and Karen didn't. Karen had a beautiful voice but it lacked emotion. Singing the right notes, hopefully in the right order, is not enough. That is why everyone hated Sing Something Simple, which used to follow Pick Of The Pops, and tolled the knell of parting weekend. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: I don't know what the exact expression is but it is something like 'colour', but whatever it is called the great jazz, soul and rock singers had it, and Karen didn't. Karen had a beautiful voice but it lacked emotion. Singing the right notes, hopefully in the right order, is not enough. That is why everyone hated Sing Something Simple, which used to follow Pick Of The Pops, and tolled the knell of parting weekend. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Exactly what I was trying to articulate. EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I understand why the guitar in GTL makes the record what it is. It's like he's showing Karen what she should be doing. The first solo starts off by simply following the melody. Nice tone, but so far, so Bert Weedon. And then he suddenly whips out a short flurry of more off-piste playing, almost like he's saying "Karen, love, put some emotion into it - like this". And on the outro solo, he really lets rip, showing her what she should be doing with her voice. It's a total study in contrasts. Edited March 31, 2023 by mjmooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 31, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 31, 2023 I suspect some of you will already know this but it is a brilliant cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 1, 2023 Moderator Share Posted April 1, 2023 11 hours ago, bickster said: I suspect some of you will already know this but it is a brilliant cover His cover of shipbuilding is great, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 1, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted April 1, 2023 Like Phil Collins, Robert Wyatt was an excellent drummer. I'd rather they had both stuck to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 1, 2023 Moderator Share Posted April 1, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 1, 2023 Moderator Share Posted April 1, 2023 2 hours ago, blandy said: His cover of shipbuilding is great, too. Now thats actually a bit of a debate. Is it a cover? Written by Langer / McManus for Wyatt and released first by Wyatt too I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 1, 2023 Moderator Share Posted April 1, 2023 50 minutes ago, bickster said: Now thats actually a bit of a debate. Is it a cover? Written by Langer / McManus for Wyatt and released first by Wyatt too I think I wondered if anyone would question it! Costello (McManus) wrote it and he recorded it, so IMO that's the "original" - it might not have been released first by him, but he was the first to sing it etc.... that was my thinking, though I didn't know they wrote it specifically for RW. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 1, 2023 Moderator Share Posted April 1, 2023 Incidentally, I have Shipbuilding by Robert Wyatt on CD. On the same CD is another cover, that (at the time) I didn't know was a cover. (The CD being a Q magazine cover CD). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 1, 2023 Moderator Share Posted April 1, 2023 1 hour ago, blandy said: I wondered if anyone would question it! Costello (McManus) wrote it and he recorded it, so IMO that's the "original" - it might not have been released first by him, but he was the first to sing it etc.... that was my thinking, though I didn't know they wrote it specifically for RW. Not strictly true, only the words are Costello, the tune is Langers and he specifically wrote it for Wyatt. Wyatt’s version was released in 82. Costello didn’t come out til 83 and it was an album track on Punch The Clock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 2 hours ago, blandy said: Incidentally, I have Shipbuilding by Robert Wyatt on CD. On the same CD is another cover, that (at the time) I didn't know was a cover. (The CD being a Q magazine cover CD). As much as I like Public Enemy this to me is the definitive version. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 1, 2023 Moderator Share Posted April 1, 2023 Yes, it's Teen Spirit but it's also Patti Smith. It's a good cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 12 hours ago, blandy said: His cover of shipbuilding is great, too. See, I’ve gone to post this in the Russian thread a few times, and now the moment’s gone. Solid piece and as relevant now as ever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_serpente Posted April 2, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted April 2, 2023 22 hours ago, blandy said: I’m pretty sure I’ve posted this on here before. I love the bit where he plays the 16th century style. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 2, 2023 Moderator Share Posted April 2, 2023 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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