OutByEaster? Posted August 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted August 16, 2021 8 hours ago, blandy said: So he hasn't (yet) - he may do, he may not. The party may decide on a different course - but none of that has happened, so IMO calling him a liar is (yet) unfair in the extreme. For many of those ten pledges there's already evidence that he has gone against them. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to call him a liar, but what we were hoping for was Corbyn with competency and I think it's fair to say that's not what we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted August 16, 2021 49 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: For many of those ten pledges there's already evidence that he has gone against them. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to call him a liar, but what we were hoping for was Corbyn with competency and I think it's fair to say that's not what we have. I’ve just refreshed my memory of them. Bluntly 9 are things labour can only really do in government. The other one I’d say is definitely not gone against, but equally is not wholly met. Professional election operation? Unite the party? It’s un- uniteable. Quote Forensic, effective opposition to the Tories in Parliament – linked up to our mass membership and a professional election operation. Never lose sight of the votes ‘lent’ to the Tories in 2019. Unite our party, promote pluralism and improve our culture. Robust action to eradicate the scourge of antisemitism. Maintain our collective links with the unions. https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, blandy said: Keir said: "Robust action to eradicate the scourge of antisemitism" "By expelling all the Jewish members" Edited August 16, 2021 by darrenm Dodgy quoting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted August 16, 2021 31 minutes ago, darrenm said: "By expelling all the Jewish members" If you genuinely believe that, then you really should step out of your political bubbble a bit You realise of course that his wife and children are Jewish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 17, 2021 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2021 The definition of insanity is located in this and many of the replies. People have been radicalised on the left as well as the right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 I genuinely do not understand what many labour supporters currently want with their rush to attack Starmer. In the last GE Labour were trounced and had the humiliation of losing many of their traditional seats in the north - the red wall - swing to Conservatives. Labour were being rejected by not only the country but also their traditional support. And yet, many are asking for Labour to go back to trying to appeal to their traditional support and not take the party back towards the centre. the very support that deserted them in 2019. Labour was borne out of the frustration of the working-classes not being able to field candidates for political elections, and so through the Trade Union movement made a party that allowed them to do so, and with it they worked from a socialist agenda. That is the roots. But if we look at today's Britain, or England/Wales, the political landscape and opportunities for working people has changed. There are more freedoms than at the turn of the 19th/20th century with almost universal suffrage guaranteed. The strength of the union has also diminished with around 6% of the current workforce in an affiliated union compared to 18% in 1918. The unions still have a strong grip on Labour especially when the Party lurches back to the left. However, the unions do not necessarily reflect the majority of the labour parliamentary party, the wider Labour membership, or the even larger Labour support. What was a 'working person' in 1900 is very different to a working person in 2021. Expenditure, expendable income, and possibilities and opportunities have all increased. yes, there have always been those that are lesser well off and at the bottom end of the income scale, but that demographic traditionally do not vote and have never been a traditional Labour vote to attract. However, it is part of the Labour doctrine to look after the less well of in society and I have seen nothing from Keir Starmer to suggest him retaking the centre-ground is moving Labour from that core tenet of looking after the worst off in society. There is also some in-fighting over how Starmer should be regarding Brexit and Johnson's shit show. Again, I'm confused as to why. 2019 and the loss of many seats in the north were as a direct result of the Tories running on the 'get brexit Done' ticket. Numerous reports done since from those voters were shown that they thought Labour weren't listening to them. Or that they didn't trust Corbyn. He certainly did go into bat for the Remain cause, but he was never totally convincing. However, that is nota criticism of him during the referendum campaign as the Labour vote generally held up. But there is currently no mileage in Starmer banging a rejon drum for now. Whilst Brexit is still get a long way to run, stating an aim to rejoin will alienate those lost voters, those middle of the political spectrum voters, and give Johnson and the Tories a free shot at Labour and Starmer and pointing out that only they (the Tories) are still listening to the people. in this moment of history doing nothing is better than doing something. The other problem for Starmer is that the media and population adore Johnson. The see his buffoonery act and take it that he is this lovable rogue or scamp who is actually quite a laugh and a dear chap. The more time he has to be exposed to the general running of the country on a day-to-day basis the more that mask will slip and Labour can pounce then. As it stands the government still have some of the vaccine bounce that is carrying through some tricky months. Throughout this period anything serious Starmer tries to say gets a schoolboy 'yah, boo sucks, you're just a poo poo' type response and everyone laughs. because its Boris. Dear Boris. So loved he gets just a first name, so pally are we. So, personalised have we become. So, again, Starmer has to sit this wave of popularity to wane and then the country will see Johnson for the ineptitude; bombast he is or doesn't even really want the job. he is about making money and has had to give up a lot of money making jobs and consultancies to this job. Which he is bored of. Its easy to forget hat until vaccinations that Starmer was constantly holding a higher approval rating than Johnson. I agree with the earlier comment that he may be the Kinnock to the next incumbents Blair, but that's what Labour need at the moment. Consolidation and rebuild. Not in-fighting and yearning for a time that all but the unions and left of the party believe in. The working person and the general Labour support has moved on. if it wants power it once again has to show 'middle-england' that it can represent them, and not just try and prove its always fighting the just cause of the poor. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Ah excellent news. The managers are back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted August 17, 2021 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted August 17, 2021 I was curious... Quote What are agile ceremonies? The utmost purpose of agile ceremonies is to foster and facilitate team communication. They enable the agile team to be effective as they improve the feedback loop. Plus, they're a sort of guideline for agile development, in which product solutions are created through team collaboration. They help the team stick to agile practices and benefit from them. The name is quite fancy, but agile ceremonies are four events that occur during a Scrum sprint. These are Sprint Planning, Daily Stand-Up, Sprint Review, and Sprint Retrospective. Without them, agile development could survive, but it couldn't live well. Now, don't take some kind of agile meetings and add them to a waterfall project to call it an agile project. That's not agile at all, and you wouldn't benefit from it. The ceremonies apply to the Scrum framework. However, other forms of agile development such as Kanban and Lean have similar kinds of practices. Once you master Scrum, you'll have the means to solve complex problems in a lightweight manner. Nonetheless, you should have a systematic approach to agile ceremonies. We'll explore the kinds of attendees, timing, duration, goals, and outcomes for each step of a sprint. We'll also give you some free yet powerful advice to improve the quality of agile ceremonies. easyagile.com This is a different language to what I learned at school. I think its called Horseshit 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, bickster said: I was curious... easyagile.com This is a different language to what I learned at school. I think its called Horseshit It’ll get you to the top in the NHS though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 17, 2021 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just now, Ingram85 said: It’ll get you to the top in the NHS though. Yes, my missus tells me all about NHS managers. They mostly need to be jumped up the queue before umbrella manufacturers come the glorious day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 I am currently living that horseshit every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 17, 2021 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just now, Seat68 said: I am currently living that horseshit every day On the plus side, it's saved you a fortune at the barbers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 'Agile Ceremonies' sounds like it should be the title of a dark techno LP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) There are a number of agile implementations that can be a highly effective methodology to more quickly deliver quality software so long as you have a highly skilled, empowered team motivated to continually improve. Unfortunately a lot of companies don't understand the highly skilled, empowered part, and follow this new modern thing that means you don't plan or document anything, then wonder why shit hits the fan. I'm also unsure how well it lends itself to preparing for long-term election goals. Edited August 17, 2021 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 I've never encountered this language before, literally no idea what 'agile' means in this context. Probably no surprise; working in a university, the only 'agility' anyone shows (in any sense of the word) is when they need to do some arse-covering. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I've never encountered this language before, literally no idea what 'agile' means in this context. Probably no surprise; working in a university, the only 'agility' anyone shows (in any sense of the word) is when they need to do some arse-covering. It's not really one thing, it's a broad range of methodologies, that aim to put implementation detail around the original Agile Manifesto (https://agilemanifesto.org/) which is honestly really good stuff compared to how software development tended to work until the last 10-15 years. The problem is companies taking an "agile framework" because they went to some talk and it's the cool new way to work, and have no idea about the original underpinning principles, and have no interest in adhering to them ("Build projects around motivated individuals. Give them the environment and support they need, and trust them to get the job done.", 90% of managers just screamed in horror). It certainly wasn't intended to be an approach to general running of a business or organisation so why Labour have suddenly decided they're "agile" is a bit of a mystery, a "product mindset" to delivering elections? WTF does that mean? Edited August 17, 2021 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 17, 2021 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: literally no idea what 'agile' means in this context. They have "agile" at our place. Can't be doing with it. Load of ol' bollex. My sympathies are with the Labour folk it is inflicted upon. It's people who make things work well and be flexible and responsive, not management tools (and yes, read management tools both ways, please do). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, blandy said: It's people who make things work well and be flexible and responsive, not management tools That's one of the key driving principles "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools". In other words, hire good people, get them talking to and working with other good people and get the hell out of their way to let them do their job. It certainly wasn't intended to be another layer of management bullshit to wade through. I have little but praise for the broad principles of agile working, and in the right team, it leads to success (I'd argue in those teams, success was inevitable, but it certainly helps, in my experience). I have little but condemnation for shite managers wanting to fit in by copying buzzwords they heard at the latest rocket polisher summit. I've certainly worked at a couple of places that essentially just had "agile theatre" and that tends to be a disorganised mess where nobody knows what anyone else is doing. I'd hate to speculate on how Labour might get on. Edited August 17, 2021 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Xela Posted August 17, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 17, 2021 Only time i'm agile at work is when i've got to lay some cable and i've already got a turtles head developing. I'm then more agile than a gibbon doing parkour. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 17, 2021 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2021 51 minutes ago, Davkaus said: That's one of the key driving principles "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools". In other words, hire good people, get them talking to and working with other good people and get the hell out of their way to let them do their job. It certainly wasn't intended to be another layer of management bullshit to wade through. Well, in my (perhaps jaded) experience the thing is that hiring good people and having an environment where these people naturally communicate and are free and able to be left largely alone to get on with it doesn't need a management buzzword name appending to it, nor does it need some kind of template introduced, nor does it require codifying. It absolutely ends up being a layer of stuff imposed by management, because if they don't, they haven't "rolled out" "agile". If your plan includes (and it should) hiring good people, that's called "hiring good people". If your plan involves not micromanaging, but setting targets, giving them the tools to do the job and then getting out of the way, unless help is asked for - that's called "good management". Agile my arse. (apologies to any management consultants, brand creators, synergistic architects or other such folk out there). Labour, maybe they're proper old school and need a bit of modernisation in their practices, but buzzword bingo is unlikely to encourage change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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