The Tim Sherwood Thread

[StanBalaban]

Newcastle winning...

So we're in the bottom 2 as it stands. Marvs.

[useless]

I think Newcastle were always likely to pull away. I think they'll end up about 15th.

[dudevillaisnice]

Norwich equalise

[OneNightInRotterdam]

Could prompt the board to act. 

[StanBalaban]

Newcastle winning...

I think Newcatle and Norwich drawing would be a kind result for us, but surely Newcastle will be sounding out potential new candidates.

They've spent a lot of money and are still a big draw - although I'd say both jobs are poisoned chalices.

Edited October 18, 2015 by StanBalaban

[terrytini]

OK to just laugh at people too now is it ?

[Godders]

II dont think being called bizarre, unreal,  'plucking hypothetical from thin air' or being repeatedly wrongly told I am defending Sherwood constitutes debate.

I think the reason your posts have generated so much debate is because your argument, as far as I can tell, is based on the assumption that a 4 win swing over the course of a 38 game season is statistically insignificant enough for the two managers' respective records to be considered almost identical. 

A 4 win swing, in my opinion, and in the opinion of a number of others here from what I see, is definitely not insignificant. In fact, it is very significant over the course of a season. Therefore, Moyes is a better manager and is rightly recognised as such.

Would you consider Sherwood to be able to have done a better job at Sociedad if it was he that was taken on there instead of Moyes?

Edited October 18, 2015 by Godders

[dudevillaisnice]

Newcastle back in front..

[StanBalaban]

There's a definite risk that we could be cut adrift by the end of November, and no one will want to manage a doomed ship by then. 

I think unless the result is a draw tonight, leaving it until after the Swansea game is leaving it too late to be sack Sherwood.

[Dr_Pangloss]

For those who want Moyes, Sociedad are not doing a lot better than we are this season.

For those who want Sherwood to stay, please note that we are currently 18th with 4 points and 4 points cut off from 17th place.

[Mantis]

Not sure why people think we will win loads of games in the division below, we won't . There are a few teams in that league who have beaten us recently and that's when we've had better players . It would be very competitive and I can see us down for a few years

Nobody knows what will happen.

[OneNightInRotterdam]

We are so screwed. 

[OneNightInRotterdam]

We are deep in trouble.

[pacbuddies]

For those who want Moyes, Sociedad are not doing a lot better than we are this season.

For those who want Sherwood to stay, please note that we are currently 18th with 4 points and 4 points cut off from 17th place.

Currently we are 19th with 4 points.

[Stevo985]

II dont think being called bizarre, unreal,  'plucking hypothetical from thin air' or being repeatedly wrongly told I am defending Sherwood constitutes debate.

I think the reason your posts have generated so much debate is because your argument, as far as I can tell, is based on the assumption that a 4 win swing over the course of a 38 game season is statistically insignificant enough for the two managers' respective records to be considered almost identical. 

A 4 win swing, in my opinion, and in the opinion of a number of others here from what I see, is definitely not insignificant. In fact, it is very significant over the course of a season. Therefore, Moyes is a better manager and is rightly recognised as such.

Would you consider Sherwood to be able to have done a better job at Sociedad if it was he that was taken on there instead of Moyes?

exactly. 

And if its such an insignificant swing, then as I pointed out, surely it's just as likely to swing the other way. In which case Moyes is 8 wins better off. 

Theres no difference. Arguing that Moyes and Sherwood have similar records because if Moyes lost two more and Sherwood won two more they'd be level, is the same as me saying Moyes has a much better record because if he'd won two more and Sherwood had lost two more then Moyes would have won 8 more games. 

 

At theend of the day, the fact is Moyes record at sociedad is 4 wins and 12 points better than Sherwood's here. For a team that wins as few games as we do, that's a huge difference. 

[terrytini]

II dont think being called bizarre, unreal,  'plucking hypothetical from thin air' or being repeatedly wrongly told I am defending Sherwood constitutes debate.

I think the reason your posts have generated so much debate is because your argument, as far as I can tell, is based on the assumption that a 4 win swing over the course of a 38 game season is statistically insignificant enough for the two managers' respective records to be considered almost identical. 

A 4 win swing, in my opinion, and in the opinion of a number of others here from what I see, is definitely not insignificant. In fact, it is very significant over the course of a season. Therefore, Moyes is a better manager and is rightly recognised as such.

Would you consider Sherwood to be able to have done a better job at Sociedad if it was he that was taken on there instead of Moyes?

II dont think being called bizarre, unreal,  'plucking hypothetical from thin air' or being repeatedly wrongly told I am defending Sherwood constitutes debate.

I think the reason your posts have generated so much debate is because your argument, as far as I can tell, is based on the assumption that a 4 win swing over the course of a 38 game season is statistically insignificant enough for the two managers' respective records to be considered almost identical. 

A 4 win swing, in my opinion, and in the opinion of a number of others here from what I see, definitely not insignificant. In fact, it is very significant over the course of a season. Therefore, Moyes is a better manager and is rightly recognised as such.

Would you consider Sherwood to be able to have done a better job at Sociedad if it was he that was taken on there instead of Moyes?

Thanks for your reasoned reply.

It is indeed my point that the difference is, not insignificant, but less than one might at first have supposed. It is certainly a difference which, in my view, does not require a great leap of imagination to be eliminated. So yes, the points are significant, but statistically insignificant and not out of the bounds of plausibility.

I can'certainly picture 2 games we could have won, and im sure if we watched Moyeses games wed see two he coukd have lost.

(Thefact that the opposite is also true is nether here nor there for this partivular point).However that doesn't mean I rate the two Managers the same. Whilst I don't like Moyes either as a character or his style he cannot be compared to Sherwood, he had a decent record over a long period, Sherwood has an average record and only over a short period.

I was making the observation in respect of a post which simply talked about points tallies, in an effort to show how unreliable such things can be.

As an aside I don't agrthat one manager getting more points than the other makes them a better manager !

As to your question, I have no idea. And nobody knows whether Moyes will do better than Sherwood.

A lot said anyone could do better than McLeish, then Lambert....they are often the same people who now say it again about Sherwood.

That doesn't make those statements untrue, but it means certainty about such things is often misplaced.l

[Arj Guy]

So according to Collymore, Sherwood getting the sack would be an absolute joke. Laughable

[useless]

There's no positive to relegation whatsoever. It would set us back years and would be a black mark on our history forever. Not just a disaster for the club but for football in general.

[terrytini]

Not sure why people think we will win loads of games in the division below, we won't . There are a few teams in that league who have beaten us recently and that's when we've had better players . It would be very competitive and I can see us down for a few years

Nobody knows what will happen.

I wouldn't be thethe least surprised to sesee us plummet straight through like wolves.

But at least wed finallend up in a league where we could win a few games !

[Villan4Life]

So according to Collymore, Sherwood getting the sack would be an absolute joke. Laughable

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tim-sherwood-getting-aston-villa-6654893

 

If Tim Sherwood gets the bullet from Aston Villa in the coming days or weeks it will be an absolute joke.

What’s blatantly obvious is that there are more than a couple of players whose recruitment he had absolutely no say in, meaning he’s being forced to stand or fall by other people’s decisions.

That’s a problem facing so many young managers these days, as more and more clubs add ever greater numbers to their management structures.

You can bet your life Sam Allardyce told Sunderland owner Ellis Short: “These are my salary demands and this is what I want – complete control over everything. Give me the money to let me do my job and leave me to do it. I don’t want or need layers and layers of management.”

Tony Pulis will have said the same when he took over at West Brom .

But, unfortunately, there’s a younger group of managers who have had their heads filled with the idea that the only way they can work is with at least five or six layers around them, including a transfer committee like the one Brendan Rodgers had to work with at Liverpool.

These set-ups can work at places like Bournemouth and Swansea, because there’s no real expectation from the fans.

But at the bigger clubs there will always be an expectation, which is why managers who take those roles on should be given carte blanche to live or die by their decisions.

Of course, your Jose Mourinhos, Arsene Wengers and Sir Alex Fergusons would have set-ups around them, but they would ultimately have the final say on everything.

Villa have brought in a director of football when club supremos Randy Lerner and Tom Fox should simply have said to Sherwood at his interview, ‘If we give you the backing to come in and buy all of the players you want, to train them, put in your own scouts, what will you do for us?’

If they had been satisfied with his answers they should then have given him the job and just let him get on with it.

nstead, we’ve got Aston Villa basically operating as a development football club, which they have never been in more than 140 years and, as a supporter, that’s embarrassing.

I don’t expect us to win the Premier League or be in the top four, but I do expect to be in the top half of the table competing, with good management, good backing and being run among those six or seven premium clubs as, for the most part, Villa always have been throughout their history.