The Tim Sherwood Thread

[DCJonah]

 

I haven't even really seen him being criticized for yesterday. Most people just seem to be saying that it was a bad day at the office and that they hope he learns from his mistakes.

Exactly. That's literally all it is.

 

 

I said numerous times go ahead, I just find it strange that people want to.  I'd much rather focus on the brilliant job he's done and what we might be able to achieve with him for the future.

Again, which is ironic because that's mainly what people were doing, despite pointing out the negatives of yesterday's game, until you threw your toys out of the pram and decided we weren't allowed to say anything bad about the manager after we got humped 6-1

 

I asked why you'd want to be critical?  Same thing i'd ask if people were being critical of benteke, grealish, delph or cleverly after yesterdays game.  

[Stevo985]

I saw a few posters, including myself, pointing out that some of those players had a bad game, whilst maintaining their overall positive opinion of said players.

 

Absolutely mental, I know. But that's a true story.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Stevo985

[romavillan]

 

 

I haven't even really seen him being criticized for yesterday. Most people just seem to be saying that it was a bad day at the office and that they hope he learns from his mistakes.

Exactly. That's literally all it is.

 

 

I said numerous times go ahead, I just find it strange that people want to.  I'd much rather focus on the brilliant job he's done and what we might be able to achieve with him for the future.

Again, which is ironic because that's mainly what people were doing, despite pointing out the negatives of yesterday's game, until you threw your toys out of the pram and decided we weren't allowed to say anything bad about the manager after we got humped 6-1

 

I asked why you'd want to be critical?  Same thing i'd ask if people were being critical of benteke, grealish, delph or cleverly after yesterdays game.  

 

 

6 - 1.

 

SIX - ONE

 

3 minute hat-trick maybe?

p.s. I think Sherwood has done an incredible job so far and long may it continue.

[HanoiVillan]

Okay, I'll try to answer 'why would you want to be critical'?

 

1) Because we were shit, it was embarrassing to watch, and I know both manager and players can do better than that,

 

2) Because we are playing in the FA Cup Final in 2 weeks and I'm very concerned about what yesterday means. I mean, if Arsenal score a couple of quick goals in the first half (we know they can, because they did so at Villa Park last autumn) are we just going to give up in that game? Will we continue playing a formation that isn't working, because the manager isn't reacting to the game? If I'm being brutally honest, of course I expect that Arsenal are more likely to win than we are. I can accept losing, as long as we really push them for it. But I don't want to see a capitulation like yesterday, and I want the manager to try, as best he can, to change things when they're going wrong. 

[Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring]

Okay, I'll try to answer 'why would you want to be critical'?

 

1) Because we were shit, it was embarrassing to watch, and I know both manager and players can do better than that,

 

2) Because we are playing in the FA Cup Final in 2 weeks and I'm very concerned about what yesterday means. I mean, if Arsenal score a couple of quick goals in the first half (we know they can, because they did so at Villa Park last autumn) are we just going to give up in that game? Will we continue playing a formation that isn't working, because the manager isn't reacting to the game? If I'm being brutally honest, of course I expect that Arsenal are more likely to win than we are. I can accept losing, as long as we really push them for it. But I don't want to see a capitulation like yesterday, and I want the manager to try, as best he can, to change things when they're going wrong. 

 

Exactly.

[DCJonah]

I saw a few posters, including myself, pointing out that some of those players had a bad game, whilst maintaining their overall positive opinion of said players.

 

Absolutely mental, I know. But that's a true story.

No mental would be saying you'd want anyone but Sherwood or even wanting Lambert to continue ahead of Sherwood but we can't mention past posts.  And I don't think i've questioned anyone who said it was a bad game, it was, it would be daft to say otherwise.

 

But i'd be surprised if any of those players had comments like

 

today is tactically the worst performance from a manager I've ever seen at any level of football

 

 

Pathetic stuff from Sherwood.  

 

 

It's all well and good setting us up to attack but when you're shipping goals for fun you have to **** change and Sherwood has been too god damn stupid to do that today, pig-headed ignorance of the highest order.  

 

 

Today we come to appreciate his "Tactics Tim" nickname.

 

 

Absolute tosh from the team today, which of course lays squarely at his feet.

 

 

Sherwood messed up and deserves criticism today for it.  

 

slight difference in attitude wouldn't you agree?  

[darrenm]

I refuse to use purely hindsight to criticise managers, especially when it comes to tactics.

 

I always afforded Lambert the benefit of the doubt with tactics because, to me, while I've got a right to question what he was doing, I could never claim to know more than a Premier League manager. Therefore Sherwood gets the same treatment.

 

However, yesterday, while I was watching it was painfully obvious to me that our defence was far too high. They had fast forward players and it was more than obvious what was going to happen. This wasn't hindsight, it was shockingly obvious.

 

I also don't buy the 'this is what will sometimes happen with Sherwood's attacking philosophy' because playing the defence so high up isn't just a side-effect of attacking, it's naive and negligent. Bolton came to Villa Park a few years ago and played a high line against us. They did well to only lose 4-0 because we kept getting in behind them in exactly the same way as Southampton did yesterday. It shouldn't have been that much of a surprise that as the only teams who win there do it with very little possession (including us a couple of years ago), we needed to sit back and attack on the break.

 

I didn't know enough about him before he came to posit much of an opinion. I've been massively impressed in the upturn so far which has kept us up and saved our season. It looks like Lambert was sacked just in time and the right man was brought in.

 

Ultimately yesterday doesn't really matter. But he needs to make sure he learns from yesterday because that was horrendous.

Edited May 17, 2015 by darrenm

[Daweii]

I didn't see the team giving up yesterday.. We went 5-0 down and scored. What I saw was a case of damage limitation as Southampton about 5-10 minutes into the second half sat back hoping we'd give them a game. In an ideal world where counter attacking wasn't a thing I'd love to have seen Villa smash them, but had we chased the game like a rabid dog we'd have conceded another 4 or 5 as we'd have been hit on the counter time and time again. It may look defeatist but we like everyone knew the game was over after 30 minutes.. 

[Stevo985]

 

I saw a few posters, including myself, pointing out that some of those players had a bad game, whilst maintaining their overall positive opinion of said players.

 

Absolutely mental, I know. But that's a true story.

No mental would be saying you'd want anyone but Sherwood or even wanting Lambert to continue ahead of Sherwood but we can't mention past posts.  And I don't think i've questioned anyone who said it was a bad game, it was, it would be daft to say otherwise.

 

But i'd be surprised if any of those players had comments like

 

 

 

slight difference in attitude wouldn't you agree?  

 

I've admitted plenty of times that I was completely wrong about Sherwood's appointment (including a number of posts in this very conversation, but I assume that's comething else you're choosing to ignore). I understand you thrive on point scoring, but continually bringing my posts up from 4 months ago doesn't really work when I already fully acknowledge how wrong they were, especially when they're completely irrelevant to the conversation. In fact, it comes across as incredibly petty.

 

As for the rest, you haven't really said anything that hasn't already been said. Sherwood deservedly got flak after yesterday's game, as did many of the players (if you look at the Vlaar thread for example you'll see plenty of posts like that).

 

That doesn't mean people don't appreciate what a great job the manager has done. But we're going round in circles now.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Stevo985

[romavillan]

I refuse to use purely hindsight to criticise managers, especially when it comes to tactics.

 

I always afforded Lambert the benefit of the doubt with tactics because, to me, while I've got a right to question what he was doing, I could never claim to know more than a Premier League manager. Therefore Sherwood gets the same treatment.

 

However, yesterday, while I was watching it was painfully obvious to me that our defence was far too high. They had fast forward players and it was more than obvious what was going to happen. This wasn't hindsight, it was shockingly obvious.

 

I also don't buy the 'this is what will sometimes happen with Sherwood's attacking philosophy' because playing the defence so high up isn't just a side-effect of attacking, it's naive and negligent. Bolton came to Villa Park a few years ago and played a high line against us. They did well to only lose 4-0 because we kept getting in behind them in exactly the same way as Southampton did yesterday. It shouldn't have been that much of a surprise that as the only teams who win there do it with very little possession (including us a couple of years ago), we needed to sit back and attack on the break.

 

I didn't know enough about him before he came to posit much of an opinion. I've been massively impressed in the upturn so far which has kept us and saved our season. It looks like Lambert was sacked just in time and the right man was brought in.

 

Ultimately yesterday doesn't really matter. But he needs to make sure he learns from yesterday because that was horrendous.

 

Ah some sense.

Yup, also I'd add that you can be compact without pushing up the back 4 to the halfway line to compress the game. You can be compact and leave Benteke upfield and play out from the back and move up the field as a unit, so you don't leave wide green acres for pacey forwards to gallop into. I think we could have played a possession game at their place as we have been passing it beautifully.

 

Now, this is contructive criticism in my view, Sherwood will hopefully have had a chat with Koeman too after the game. He clearly is an intelligent man and as such will be looking to learn from it. He's been amazing for us, so hopefully long term it makes AVFC a better unit with him at the helm.

[Keyblade]

Most of those posts apart from perhaps the Tactics Tim one are fair game imo. They're all just a less diplomatic way of saying "Sherwood messed up and deserves criticism today for it." (because that's obviously how you would word your criticism after witnessing a demoralizing 6-1 loss).

[Stevo985]

 

 

I also don't buy the 'this is what will sometimes happen with Sherwood's attacking philosophy' because playing the defence so high up isn't just a side-effect of attacking, it's naive and negligent. 

I don't mind that opinion.

If you play an attacking game then it comes with the territory. Some games you're going to get surprised.

 

What I was bothered about was persisting with a tactic that clearly wasn't working for 90 minutes.

 

If that game had gone on for another 90 minutes we'd have just fallen further and further behind. At no point did we look like we were changing anything.

That was the disappointing thing.

 

But I think Tim will learn from that.

[PieFacE]

I hate the fact it now feels like everyone has to qualify their opinion by saying "Sherwood has been amazing" after every criticism. 

[Stevo985]

I hate the fact it now feels like everyone has to qualify their opinion by saying "Sherwood has been amazing" after every criticism. 

I think if we all put it in our signature then the DCJonah police will let us off.

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

Even Fergie would've copped criticism after Utd lost 6-1 to City a few years back!

 

It doesn't matter how well you're doing as a manager, it doesn't matter if you're the best manager to grace the game, if you lose 6-1 the fans are rightfully going to criticise you and question you're tactics/set up.

Edited May 17, 2015 by MessiWillSignForVilla

[DCJonah]

 it comes across as incredibly petty.

 

Well i thought i'd respond in the same manor as your sarcastic 'absolutely mental, i know'

 

 

 

(if you look at the Vlaar thread for example you'll see plenty of posts like that).

 

Vlaar is a good example, he's not someone that's been fantastic time and time again so I can understand why someone would be critical of that performance, I was myself.  But then contrast that to the attitudes towards poor performances from cleverly and delph, nothing like it because why would you when it's a one off.  And that's my whole point with Sherwood.  Anyway like you said it's going round in circles and is becoming more and more pointless.

 

I don't see the point in being overly critical towards him after one bad result, if others do that's their choice and a forum like this allows them to do so.  

Edited May 17, 2015 by DCJonah

[Stevo985]

So we're allowed to be critical of certain players and not others?

Could you maybe publish a list so that we know where we can and can't post after a loss?

 

Hopefully we'll win the Burnley game and we'll be allowed to discuss the manager's performance in here then

Edited May 17, 2015 by Stevo985

[DCJonah]

So we're allowed to be critical of certain players and not others?

Could you maybe publish a list so that we know where we can and can post after a loss?

 

Hopefully we'll win the Burnley game and we'll be allowed to discuss the manager's performance in here then

You keep saying you're not allowed yet that's never been said but well done for repeating it.

 

Yes hopefully we do and he keeps making your ridiculous comments towards him before he even got the job continue to look foolish.  

[Stevo985]

 

Yes hopefully we do and he keeps making your ridiculous comments towards him before he even got the job continue to look foolish.  

 

 

I think this is what you're looking for

 

[DCJonah]

Not sure what's so hilarious, unless you had a look at some of the things you said and how wrong you were? I could imagine that could have you rolling around laughing.

 

Anyway i'm sure this is pretty boring for everyone else so I'll leave it there.