Paul Lambert

[BG_Villa_Fan]

 

So now it's the fans fault that they bought in a vision that turned out to be shit? The fans are the least of Villa's problems and they've proved it in the last 2 years. 

How did ANYONE know that the vision was going to turn out shit? Did you? Did I? did the thousands of others? but seems NOW they did (but not at the time) and I did NOT say it's all the fans fault at all did I? I said the fans were all for the vision but not now where have I blamed the fans? I can say that SOME fans who booed everytime one of the young players made a mistake and got on their backs didn't make things easy for them either.  I just mentioned that the fans were all for it then and now in hindsight they are not. This is down to Lambert and the players and Lerner. The fans bought into the vision (it was their choice) and now have turned away(again their choice)  - what does that say about SOME fans.

 

I have no problem with fans - no matter what point of view they hold. 

 

Of course no one knew it'd turn out like that. Not sure what your point is. Of course Lambert will be judged based on hindsight, just as everyone else. Fans pay their money and will keep doing this regardless. Did Man U fans know Moyes would turn out to be totally out of sync? No, of course not. With hindsight, did he deserve the sack? Most probably yes. 

[Xela]

 

 If Benteke was injury free, you would not be calling for Lambert to get fired.

 

There's that little word again!

 

BTW, we got 29 points from the 26 league games he appeared in this season, so 1.1 points per game as opposed to the 1.03 we have achieved overall. Hardly a stunning difference.

 

 

 

In a fair chunk of those games he clearly wasn't fit though. That's why he didn't score from September (his initial injury) and January, where he finally appeared to be properly fit. He was on fire after that right up until his current injury.

 

 

So, what we saying here? We're a one man team? 2 years as manager as he's turned us into a one man team and when that player is injured, we are shocking.

[smetrov]

 

Long ball, short ball, passing non passing ............but for me his biggest problem has been his inability to construct a defence that is anything approaching 'tight'  - which I believe is the basis for any team - you can't build on a leaky defence.

But Smetrov - would this be the case if Okore had been fit?? the signs were good - the partnership with Vlaar looked good - Baker and Clarke would have been backups. Just saying that had we had the proper partnership we MAY not have leaked goals and turned losses to draws and draws to wins - who's to say???

 

 

I agree Okore was a massive loss. But Vlaar aside most of the defenders signed in 2 seasons have looked sub standard.

 

I think 2 seasons is time enough to make a defence hard to penetrate - I mean look at the last few games - we are regularly conceding 4 goals. In his first season he stood by Clark with no evidence that he was up to the job - although you mention Okore - he is still a raw 21 year old ....Lambert should have got some more experience @ CB - it is this decision that I believe will cost him his job

[villan_007]

Speaked well in the press conference. "While Man City put on Fernandiho and Negredo, we had to put on 2 academy kids" That says alot of our injury problems doesn't it? This is not even an excuse, this is plain facts. Our squad atm is totally ribbed

 

Hopefully better than this!

Edited May 10, 2014 by villan_007

[villan_007]

I have some sympathy for Lambert in terms of injuries but sadly they are part and parcel of the game.

 

I think it is a bit of a weak argument to suggest that had Okore been fit things would have been much different though. He is 21 years old, started the season on the bench and when Baker got injured against Arsenal it was Clark who came on. I think it would have taken him some time to settle having come from a much inferior league and having only 70 odd senior games under his belt. I was therefore not surprised to find he was not first choice at the start of the season.

 

As for the others. Benteke will have played in 26 league games for us. When he was out earlier in the season Kozak was still fit and came in for him. The other injuries have been very short term.

 

The injury line also doesn't wash when you consider even at practically full strength we have struggled and served up some right tripe.

 

With a fully fit squad all season, no drops in form, no suspensions would we have finished higher? yes we would assuming of course the other teams continued to have injuries, suspensions and losses of form.

 

Overall we have been no more unfortunate than any other team this season or in past seasons. Under McLeish we lost Jenas for most of the season, Bent for a half a season, Petrov for a third of it, Dunne for a quarter of the season, Given for half a dozen games. I don't remember any of us taking pity on McLeish then and the same applies to Lambert now.

 

Okore didn't start the season as that was Lambert giving Baker / Clark a chance to push on from how they finished last season. But for me make no mistake Okore would have been the first name on the sheeet as he was before he got ijnured and has been a huge blow for us.

 

I don't think we've been full strength ever all season, even for more than 2 games. I think the biggest blow has been NEVER been able to bring in a quality addition to the midfield, somebody creative. This was out of Lamberts hads though.

 

The Mcleish comparrison for me is the weak argument. He had the last few premier league quality squad that we had. He lost Dunne, he had Cuellar, Given - Guzan and so on. It does'nt compare to this. You scratch below the surface of this team and it really is barebones and academy players. 

 

That comes down to finance and the fact you cannot builda premier league squad on 40mill.

[avfc1982am]

So now it's the fans fault that they bought in a vision that turned out to be shit? The fans are the least of Villa's problems and they've proved it in the last 2 years.

How did ANYONE know that the vision was going to turn out shit? Did you? Did I? did the thousands of others? but seems NOW they did (but not at the time) and I did NOT say it's all the fans fault at all did I? I said the fans were all for the vision but not now where have I blamed the fans? I can say that SOME fans who booed everytime one of the young players made a mistake and got on their backs didn't make things easy for them either. I just mentioned that the fans were all for it then and now in hindsight they are not. This is down to Lambert and the players and Lerner. The fans bought into the vision (it was their choice) and now have turned away(again their choice) - what does that say about SOME fans.

I have no problem with fans - no matter what point of view they hold.

Of course no one knew it'd turn out like that. Not sure what your point is. Of course Lambert will be judged based on hindsight, just as everyone else. Fans pay their money and will keep doing this regardless. Did Man U fans know Moyes would turn out to be totally out of sync? No, of course not. With hindsight, did he deserve the sack? Most probably yes.

Beat me to it BG, My thoughts excactly. Fans always will always buy into a vision if it appears that it will progress a club to a brighter future. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. That being said you cant blindly continue following something if you feel its not working.

[Big_John_10]

The Mcleish comparrison for me is the weak argument. He had the last few premier league quality squad that we had.

But until recently Lambert's biggest supporters consistently told us that Lambert had signed better players than the ones he let go and that he was right to bomb out other players and they weren't good enough. So after being told he's built a better squad than McLeish had why are we getting the same results?

I saw someone else mention instant results last season. Well honestly how many predicted a relegation battle last season? Again I'd say his biggest supporters expected an instant improvement on McLeish.

Yet now both of these things have changed. Now it seems there was no other way than 2 relegation battles when the mention of 1 was mocked and laughed at previously. And the comparison with mcleish's squad changes. Are the players Lambert signed better than the ones he replaced? We're told so often but then Lambert's praised for surviving with them whereas McLeish was a shit manager for doing the same.

[briny_ear]

So, what we saying here? We're a one man team? 2 years as manager as he's turned us into a one man team and when that player is injured, we are shocking.

That actually is my main criticism of Lambert as a manager.

[botak]

Speaked well in the press conference. "While Man City put on Fernandiho and Negredo, we had to put on 2 academy kids" That says alot of our injury problems doesn't it? This is not even an excuse, this is plain facts. Our squad atm is totally ribbed

 

Says a lot about how awful some of his summer signings were too. 

 

When some are so bad we can't even use them in an injury crisis, he's got a bit of a cheek to be complaining about having to use academy kids as a last resort due to 'injuries'.

 

Bet he didn't mention that in the press conference.

[KHV]

Speaked well in the press conference. "While Man City put on Fernandiho and Negredo, we had to put on 2 academy kids" That says alot of our injury problems doesn't it? This is not even an excuse, this is plain facts. Our squad atm is totally ribbed

 

Says a lot about how awful some of his summer signings were too. 

 

When some are so bad we can't even use them in an injury crisis, he's got a bit of a cheek to be complaining about having to use academy kids as a last resort due to 'injuries'.

 

Bet he didn't mention that in the press conference.

Exactly, I have never known a manager buy so much crap

[DamsonwoodVillan]

Keep swinging one way then the other with the Lambert debate.

 

I think he should go because if we are about to start a new dawn with ownership, in my opinion it would feel more natural to have a new dawn of management as well. 

 

But at the start of the season most Villa fans would have said mid-table this year would be termed progress. Blimey if we win and other results went our way tomorrow we will finish what I'd call mid-table! 

 

It's an easy thing to say of course but if Lambert had been able to call on Benteke, Kozak, Okore, N'Zogbia et al for more games this season I think we could easily have amassed 9 more points and be pushing for a top half finish. 

 

The main gripe being banded around now is that Lambert's brand of football is really dire. To an extent I agree, but when we are in form going forward, we look quite bright and difficult to stop, so I don't agree completely. 

 

We all have our complaints about him, but to simply say he's dreadful and has been a complete failure is in my opinion over the top and actually unfounded. 

[BG_Villa_Fan]

 

So, what we saying here? We're a one man team? 2 years as manager as he's turned us into a one man team and when that player is injured, we are shocking.

That actually is my main criticism of Lambert as a manager.

 

 

We're not a one man team though. We're just about as likely to pick up points with Benteke in the team as without him. We're just as likely to pick up points against good teams as against poorer teams, regardless of personnel. We don't have structure. We have some very decent players in the first team that most teams in the bottom half don't have, and sometimes things click. Most often they don't because the gameplans and tactics are all over the place. There's zero structure, there's zero continuity, zero vision on the pitch. Just go out there and hopefully get something. 

[Big_John_10]

We had a fit world class benteke last year and got 41 points.

[DamsonwoodVillan]

Of last season's 41 points a good many of them came in the final 15 games or so, suggesting an encouraging late improvement ahead of this season.

 

This season's 38 points is a similar tally but with no real trends of form or improvement to point to, which to me is even more worrying. 

 

Backs up BG Villa Fan's points as well about lack of structure. We go out there and are so inconsistent, regardless of the opposition, I 100% agree. 

[nazvfc]

 

 

Long ball, short ball, passing non passing ............but for me his biggest problem has been his inability to construct a defence that is anything approaching 'tight'  - which I believe is the basis for any team - you can't build on a leaky defence.

But Smetrov - would this be the case if Okore had been fit?? the signs were good - the partnership with Vlaar looked good - Baker and Clarke would have been backups. Just saying that had we had the proper partnership we MAY not have leaked goals and turned losses to draws and draws to wins - who's to say???

 

 

I agree Okore was a massive loss. But Vlaar aside most of the defenders signed in 2 seasons have looked sub standard.

 

I think 2 seasons is time enough to make a defence hard to penetrate - I mean look at the last few games - we are regularly conceding 4 goals. In his first season he stood by Clark with no evidence that he was up to the job - although you mention Okore - he is still a raw 21 year old ....Lambert should have got some more experience @ CB - it is this decision that I believe will cost him his job

 

With this I agree - he should have got some experienced and I don't mean 30 somethings but in the mid-late 20's. And yes it probably has cost him his job

[DamsonwoodVillan]

Managers should start at the back in my view. Make a team a tough side to score goals on, and then work their way through the rest of the side. 

 

Lambert has tried to do the opposite. Make us a side that can always score goals. 

[nazvfc]

 

 

 

So now it's the fans fault that they bought in a vision that turned out to be shit? The fans are the least of Villa's problems and they've proved it in the last 2 years.

How did ANYONE know that the vision was going to turn out shit? Did you? Did I? did the thousands of others? but seems NOW they did (but not at the time) and I did NOT say it's all the fans fault at all did I? I said the fans were all for the vision but not now where have I blamed the fans? I can say that SOME fans who booed everytime one of the young players made a mistake and got on their backs didn't make things easy for them either. I just mentioned that the fans were all for it then and now in hindsight they are not. This is down to Lambert and the players and Lerner. The fans bought into the vision (it was their choice) and now have turned away(again their choice) - what does that say about SOME fans.

I have no problem with fans - no matter what point of view they hold.

Of course no one knew it'd turn out like that. Not sure what your point is. Of course Lambert will be judged based on hindsight, just as everyone else. Fans pay their money and will keep doing this regardless. Did Man U fans know Moyes would turn out to be totally out of sync? No, of course not. With hindsight, did he deserve the sack? Most probably yes.

Beat me to it BG, My thoughts excactly. Fans always will always buy into a vision if it appears that it will progress a club to a brighter future. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. That being said you cant blindly continue following something if you feel its not working.

 

My initial response was to someone saying we had 2 years of shit under Lambert and my retort was that the first year  was (to me) a year where a change in direction (young and hungry) meant that there would be no instant results and should not be used as a stick to beat him with (again for me and I am not talking for other fans) . First year was in many ways a true transition (just as 1968 was a true transition - from near bankruptcy).

 

First year I did not expect us to pull up trees and no-one knew we would struggle as we did until late in the season (if they did then they should be manager and stuff Lambert). 

 

The second year I agree I hoped for more. So to ME it was 1 year that I judge Lambert on - the first year I expected nothing of note (as I did way back in 68 - where I hoped we would rise up again - and I didn't expect it instantly).

 

So for me the this last year/season has been a disappointment and I hope things improve be it with or without Lambert and with or without Lerner. Both are culpable to our predicament.

 

Personally (and for me only) I feel that we may have come close to relegation and not for the want of trying - Lerner has not relegated us,  so UPTO NOW has not been as bad as Ellis.

 

Under the previous Chairman - he ultimately took the League Winners and European Champions DOWN with his policies (which were similar in cutting the wage bill) in less time than Lerner has been in charge.

 

So if/until -( here's that word again) Lerner/Lambert takes us down - then in my eyes he  Lerner, is better than  Ellis, has no ego does not take the credit when things go well and blame all and sundry if things go wrong  unlike someone we all know. And importantly has never had anything to do with SHA  

 

And Lambert is better than McNeil/Turner (to name just two) 

 

Addendum - the last bit should probably be in the Lerner thread but I feel both are culpable not just Lambert in the current position we are in.

 

Then again I could be waffling (as many of you think I am  )

[David-Copenhagen]

Little was never the same when the trinity of Little, Evans and Gregory was split by Gregory going off to Wycombe

I would love JG back as assistant.

[Sunny*Nunny]

 

(stolen from twitter)

[GENTLEMAN]

 

(stolen from twitter)

Awesome.