jackbauer24 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I too can see beyond simple results to say whether Lambert is rubbish or not. NO-ONE here is saying it has been a successful season, no-one is saying Lambert is beyond reproach and no-one is saying he hasn't made mistakes BUT what I think of the more rational people here are saying is that the fault lies far more with others than Lambert. It really comes down to where you sit on the amount of responsibility he holds. There are a number of factors, many discussed and not limited to: The Bomb Squad (could/should have used them? Who knows, maybe he wasn't allowed)The Signings (better ones injured, some mixed bag - is he not fairly similar with most when it comes to successes? And Lowton comments annoy me... fine last season - knee jerk reactions as a poor signing)The Glass Ceiling (where do people think we could have achieved with same investment - me personally, I think no higher than 12th - so at the moment he's four places below that) Tactics (tactics have been good enough to beat big teams and lose to rubbish teams - does this not say more about the quality of the players?)Public Relations (tell the fans what Lerner wants "remit/plan" etc and you're a yes man. Tell fans we need investment and he's not filling current players with confidence) Results (loss to lower league teams, very annoying and I made feelings clear, but not exactly unknown for Villa teams! And then very good results against bigger teams this year) I don't think any fan is saying it hasn't been an atrocious year but I think a few of us can see there are mitigating circumstances and are prepared to give Lambert the benefit of the doubt as regards staying on. I wouldn't say I'm Pro-Lambert, or a a Lambert Lover, but I certainly think it is too short sighted to just say he's failed, next please and not look at the route cause. McLeish just survived and we had the Bomb Squad available. Lambert doesn't seem to have had this and has lost some key players this year. He's not perfect but I think people are getting angry at the wrong person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I can see no reason why he wouldn't be allowed to play the bomb squad to be honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I am up to here (neck) with PL but people are so one sided in their views. As with everything there is a balance between the differing opinions on here. Trent for once :-) has it spot on. Exactly. Even people that aren't happy with Lambert at all are getting accused of being "Lambert lovers" purely because they're not 100% negative with their views on him. It's a symptom of the black and white approach that seems to pervade certain discussions about Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Everyone who doesn't like Lambert and is debating it with people who do aren't labelling them though, most people are debating (all be it the same points most of the time) the manager and that's what the threads for. Might need locking if we lose again tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Maybe there should be a 'Lambert out' thread where some familiar names can just spew bile in a self-congratulatory positive feedback loop, and leave this thread for a more nuanced discussion. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefa3011 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 He bought Bennett, he turned out to be not good enough so he got dropped and so then he bought Luna who turned out to be not good enough so he got dropped and so he then loaned Bertrand. He bought Lowton, he turned out to be not good enough so he got dropped so he moved a midfielder into his position. He bought Tonev, he turned out to be not good enough so he got dropped. He bought Sylla, he turned out to be not good enough so he got dropped. He bought Hellenius, he turned out to be not good enough so he got dropped. He bought Bowery, he turned out to be not good enough so he got dropped. Apologies if I have missed anyone of any relevance. 7 signings that cost us what, tops of £15m including transfer fees and wages? Not sure what else he could have done with that. Buy 1 player with the required ability and experience. Then we'd not have enough players and that would be Lambert's fault again. What if that player didn't settle at Villa and didn't perform? More of a gamble than 6 young lads wanting to prove themselves. Besides, Tonev, Bennett, Lowton (who is good enough, just had a falling out or two) and Helenius might still prove to be good enough so I'll reserve judgement a little while longer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Maybe there should be a 'Lambert out' thread where some familiar names can just spew bile in a self-congratulatory positive feedback loop, and leave this thread for a more nuanced discussion. Yea and another thread for the pompous high horsers who are better than everyone ele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Maybe there should be a 'Lambert out' thread where some familiar names can just spew bile in a self-congratulatory positive feedback loop, and leave this thread for a more nuanced discussion. Or we could have a 'Lambert In' thread where some familiar names (although there are not many) can just compile a list of lame excuses to keep the manager and leave this thread for those that can see the wood for the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I am up to here (neck) with PL but people are so one sided in their views. As with everything there is a balance between the differing opinions on here. Trent for once :-) has it spot on. Exactly. Even people that aren't happy with Lambert at all are getting accused of being "Lambert lovers" purely because they're not 100% negative with their views on him. It's a symptom of the black and white approach that seems to pervade certain discussions about Villa. It's a passionate debate and in my view a few posters are consistently trying (and succeeding) in winding up people with silly comments like blaming fans for the poor performances. We all know who they are and it is very difficult not to react in the polar opposite of the over positivity by being over negative. Most of us respect those who come on and say 'look Lambert's got failings but let's give him some more time with some of the shackles removed'. At the end of the day it's a forum for opinions and sometimes things get out of hand but I truly believe that we all want what's best for the Villa! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Im not into the details why he should stay. Its a results business and he hasn't got the results. No other manager in the premier league would be given another season with reference to his second season here. To those who think he may stay, where the hell are his new coaching staff coming from??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I can see no reason why he wouldn't be allowed to play the bomb squad to be honest Clauses/bonuses in contracts that would lead to further expenditure should said players need to be played or relied on to score goals, get clean sheets etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I am up to here (neck) with PL but people are so one sided in their views. As with everything there is a balance between the differing opinions on here. Trent for once :-) has it spot on. Exactly. Even people that aren't happy with Lambert at all are getting accused of being "Lambert lovers" purely because they're not 100% negative with their views on him. It's a symptom of the black and white approach that seems to pervade certain discussions about Villa. It's a passionate debate and in my view a few posters are consistently trying (and succeeding) in winding up people with silly comments like blaming fans for the poor performances. We all know who they are and it is very difficult not to react in the polar opposite of the over positivity by being over negative. Most of us respect those who come on and say 'look Lambert's got failings but let's give him some more time with some of the shackles removed'. At the end of the day it's a forum for opinions and sometimes things get out of hand but I truly believe that we all want what's best for the Villa! It also works the other way - I expect a lot of these overly positive messages are just a reaction to the overly negative messages. In the end you're left with a bunch of polarised views and hardly any middle ground - it's the same with other topics as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I too can see beyond simple results to say whether Lambert is rubbish or not. NO-ONE here is saying it has been a successful season, no-one is saying Lambert is beyond reproach and no-one is saying he hasn't made mistakes BUT what I think of the more rational people here OK, I stopped reading there TBH. Such arrogance seems out of place when trying to defend such a poor and inconsistent performance this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefa3011 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Maybe there should be a 'Lambert out' thread where some familiar names can just spew bile in a self-congratulatory positive feedback loop, and leave this thread for a more nuanced discussion. Or we could have a 'Lambert In' thread where some familiar names (although there are not many) can just compile a list of lame excuses to keep the manager and leave this thread for those that can see the wood for the trees. That would be one small thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Maybe there should be a 'Lambert out' thread where some familiar names can just spew bile in a self-congratulatory positive feedback loop, and leave this thread for a more nuanced discussion. Or we could have a 'Lambert In' thread where some familiar names (although there are not many) can just compile a list of lame excuses to keep the manager and leave this thread for those that can see the wood for the trees. Actually, IIRC, that was the state of play earlier in the season. There were separate pro- and anti-Lambert threads but a mod closed them both down and created this one to bring everyone together in peace and harmony. Edit: but if we do revert two two threads again, the pro-Lambert one could be labelled the "IF" thread and the anti-one could be called the "BUT" thread. Edited May 2, 2014 by briny_ear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Maybe there should be a 'Lambert out' thread where some familiar names can just spew bile in a self-congratulatory positive feedback loop, and leave this thread for a more nuanced discussion. Or we could have a 'Lambert In' thread where some familiar names (although there are not many) can just compile a list of lame excuses to keep the manager and leave this thread for those that can see the wood for the trees. Actually, IIRC, that was the state of play earlier in the season. There were separate pro- and anti-Lambert threads but a mod closed them both down and created this one to bring everyone together in peace and harmony. Well, that worked 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I am up to here (neck) with PL but people are so one sided in their views. As with everything there is a balance between the differing opinions on here. Trent for once :-) has it spot on. Exactly. Even people that aren't happy with Lambert at all are getting accused of being "Lambert lovers" purely because they're not 100% negative with their views on him. It's a symptom of the black and white approach that seems to pervade certain discussions about Villa. It's a passionate debate and in my view a few posters are consistently trying (and succeeding) in winding up people with silly comments like blaming fans for the poor performances. We all know who they are and it is very difficult not to react in the polar opposite of the over positivity by being over negative. Most of us respect those who come on and say 'look Lambert's got failings but let's give him some more time with some of the shackles removed'. At the end of the day it's a forum for opinions and sometimes things get out of hand but I truly believe that we all want what's best for the Villa! It also works the other way - I expect a lot of these overly positive messages are just a reaction to the overly negative messages. In the end you're left with a bunch of polarised views and hardly any middle ground - it's the same with other topics as well. True to an extent maybe but there is a distinct difference between blaming Lambert for the poor results and blaming the fans as some have done! All this I am a better fan than you because I buy a season ticket or stick up for Lambert etc etc. I find it very patronising and insulting. I truly believe no one on this site come 3 o'clock Saturday will be hoping we lose come 5 o'clock we all love the Villa and want us to at first survive in this league and then succeed in the near future. We just have different views on how we get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) This whole "blaming the fans" thing has been massively overstated IMO. Most of the time it's just people pointing out that a negative atmosphere at VP isn't going to help matters, which is ultimately what people are negative about in the first place. Of course, due to the black and white nature on here this is taken by some to mean "blaming the fans". Anyone who points this out also tends to get accused of absolving the manager and the team of blame for poor performances and results. As I keep saying, there's hardly any middle ground. Edited May 2, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 This whole "blaming the fans" thing has been massively overstated IMO. Most of the time it's just people pointing out that a negative atmosphere at VP isn't going to help matters, which is ultimately what people are negative about in the first place. Of course, due to the black and white nature on here this is taken by some to mean "blaming the fans". Anyone who points this out also tends to get accused of absolving the manager and the team of blame for poor performances and results. As I keep saying, there's hardly any middle ground. Jesus wept, do you get royalties every time you mention black and white? Both sides are passionate so may overstate their views to compensate for the over-reactions; on both sides. You've hardly been the semblance of balance in your support of Lambert in the past. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 This whole "blaming the fans" thing has been massively overstated IMO. Most of the time it's just people pointing out that a negative atmosphere at VP isn't going to help matters, which is ultimately what people are negative about in the first place. Of course, due to the black and white nature on here this is taken by some to mean "blaming the fans". Anyone who points this out also tends to get accused of absolving the manager and the team of blame for poor performances and results. As I keep saying, there's hardly any middle ground. Jesus wept, do you get royalties every time you mention black and white? Both sides are passionate so may overstate their views to compensate for the over-reactions; on both sides. You've hardly been the semblance of balance in your support of Lambert in the past. Black & White are his latest buzz words! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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