Paul Lambert

[The_Lions_Roar]

Solomonic & wise after the event fan base

You seem to talking down to those fans that could see what was happening. You shouldn't really judge others based on your need for undying support of Paul Lambert and lack of football knowledge.

Yes. Those same fans who wanted him here in the first place. Practically all 35,000 of them. If you are the exception to this fact then I bow to your superior fore sight, intellect & wisdom & subsequently demand the six numbers right now for this weekends National Lottery.

I know a lot of people that thought he was shite before he arrived and never wanted him. Certainly the 20/30 season ticket holders who frequent my local were not impressed with his appointment. I dont think it was as big a majority as you think

I think because a couple of thousand away fans sang his name at Norwich and because he isn't Alex McLeish people assume that all fans wanted him here. The reality is quite probably way less.

But when a couple of thousand fans sing for him to be sacked then we're told it should be treated as gospel, what's the difference here?

[AshVilla]

If Lambert read this thread would he top himself. It wouldn't be nice reading so much bad stuff about yourself. 

 

Bit extreme

 

Hopefully he will just realise the job is just to big for him and walk

 

Just in case he does read the thread though

 

[Isa]

Statements like above lose any sort of credibility in my eyes as soon as they suggest that no other manager could have done any better.

 

That's nearly my view. I did say 'much'. I think with the level of investment, the wage limit and the injuries we've had this year it was always going to be a relegation battle. Another manager might have got us safe a game ago or we could be deeper in relegation trouble like Cardiff. I think the points haul would have been negligible. In fact, I think the only way we would have got more points is if we'd tried to play for more draws.

Yes, by "any better" I meant significantly better as you are basically suggesting. To actually believe this means one of two things:

1) You completely underestimate the importance of a manager. By your logic, I could turn around and say that most other managers would also have Atléti where they are right now. As according to you, every manager does pretty much exactly the same job with the same resources.

2) You actually think Lambert is so good that if this is the best he can manage then it is incomprehendable that another manager could significantly out-do him.

[pacbuddies]

 

 

 

 

 

Solomonic & wise after the event fan base

You seem to talking down to those fans that could see what was happening. You shouldn't really judge others based on your need for undying support of Paul Lambert and lack of football knowledge.

Yes. Those same fans who wanted him here in the first place. Practically all 35,000 of them. If you are the exception to this fact then I bow to your superior fore sight, intellect & wisdom & subsequently demand the six numbers right now for this weekends National Lottery.

I know a lot of people that thought he was shite before he arrived and never wanted him. Certainly the 20/30 season ticket holders who frequent my local were not impressed with his appointment. I dont think it was as big a majority as you think

I think because a couple of thousand away fans sang his name at Norwich and because he isn't Alex McLeish people assume that all fans wanted him here. The reality is quite probably way less.

But when a couple of thousand fans sing for him to be sacked then we're told it should be treated as gospel, what's the difference here?

 

Do you really need me to explain it to you?

[NurembergVillan]

1) You completely underestimate the importance of a manager. By your logic, I could turn around and say that most other managers would also have Atléti where they are right now. As according to you, every manager does pretty much exactly the same job with the same resources.

 

It's a bit different when it's that way around though.  Not every manager could get Atleti where they are now, but with the players at their disposal a very good manager can make a real difference.

 

You could give a bad chef great ingredients and you wouldn't necessarily get a great meal.  You could give a great chef crap ingredients and they'd give it a go, but it'd still most likely be crap food.

 

With Lambert some would argue we've got a crap chef AND crap ingredients.  As he's only ever been sent to look around the bins after Tesco has shut, though, it's hard to say how he'd have done with more at his disposal.

[pacbuddies]

 

1) You completely underestimate the importance of a manager. By your logic, I could turn around and say that most other managers would also have Atléti where they are right now. As according to you, every manager does pretty much exactly the same job with the same resources.

 

It's a bit different when it's that way around though.  Not every manager could get Atleti where they are now, but with the players at their disposal a very good manager can make a real difference.

 

You could give a bad chef great ingredients and you wouldn't necessarily get a great meal.  You could give a great chef crap ingredients and they'd give it a go, but it'd still most likely be crap food.

 

With Lambert some would argue we've got a crap chef AND crap ingredients.  As he's only ever been sent to look around the bins after Tesco has shut, though, it's hard to say how he'd have done with more at his disposal.

 

All this talk of food is making me hungry but I reckon Lambert learnt to cook in the soup kitchen and gets his ingredients from the foodbank.

[The_Lions_Roar]

Solomonic & wise after the event fan base

You seem to talking down to those fans that could see what was happening. You shouldn't really judge others based on your need for undying support of Paul Lambert and lack of football knowledge.

Yes. Those same fans who wanted him here in the first place. Practically all 35,000 of them. If you are the exception to this fact then I bow to your superior fore sight, intellect & wisdom & subsequently demand the six numbers right now for this weekends National Lottery.

I know a lot of people that thought he was shite before he arrived and never wanted him. Certainly the 20/30 season ticket holders who frequent my local were not impressed with his appointment. I dont think it was as big a majority as you think

I think because a couple of thousand away fans sang his name at Norwich and because he isn't Alex McLeish people assume that all fans wanted him here. The reality is quite probably way less.

But when a couple of thousand fans sing for him to be sacked then we're told it should be treated as gospel, what's the difference here?

Do you really need me to explain it to you?

I don't need you to but I'd like to see what spin you put on it.

BTW no one said all fans wanted him here, he said 35k, last time I checked that wasn't all fans.

[jackbauer24]

 

 

Statements like above lose any sort of credibility in my eyes as soon as they suggest that no other manager could have done any better.

 

That's nearly my view. I did say 'much'. I think with the level of investment, the wage limit and the injuries we've had this year it was always going to be a relegation battle. Another manager might have got us safe a game ago or we could be deeper in relegation trouble like Cardiff. I think the points haul would have been negligible. In fact, I think the only way we would have got more points is if we'd tried to play for more draws.

Yes, by "any better" I meant significantly better as you are basically suggesting. To actually believe this means one of two things:

1) You completely underestimate the importance of a manager. By your logic, I could turn around and say that most other managers would also have Atléti where they are right now. As according to you, every manager does pretty much exactly the same job with the same resources.

2) You actually think Lambert is so good that if this is the best he can manage then it is incomprehendable that another manager could significantly out-do him.

 

 

I don't underestimate the importance of the manager. I just personally believe that there is a ceiling at this club that very few managers could break. I think with the investment that is there, the injuries we've had to key players that very few managers could have got us higher than, say, 15th. And it still wouldn't be acceptable in my eyes but I think the focus is on completely the wrong person. It is impossible to please the fans with the level of investment we currently have.

 

I don't think Lambert is so good. I think he's made some mistakes and he's infuriated me with some of his tactics. But no different that most other managers. I just happen to think starting again with a new manager with the same constraints will make virtually no difference and we'll all be back here in two years saying he was rubbish too.

[pacbuddies]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Solomonic & wise after the event fan base

You seem to talking down to those fans that could see what was happening. You shouldn't really judge others based on your need for undying support of Paul Lambert and lack of football knowledge.

Yes. Those same fans who wanted him here in the first place. Practically all 35,000 of them. If you are the exception to this fact then I bow to your superior fore sight, intellect & wisdom & subsequently demand the six numbers right now for this weekends National Lottery.

I know a lot of people that thought he was shite before he arrived and never wanted him. Certainly the 20/30 season ticket holders who frequent my local were not impressed with his appointment. I dont think it was as big a majority as you think

I think because a couple of thousand away fans sang his name at Norwich and because he isn't Alex McLeish people assume that all fans wanted him here. The reality is quite probably way less.

But when a couple of thousand fans sing for him to be sacked then we're told it should be treated as gospel, what's the difference here?

Do you really need me to explain it to you?

I don't need you to but I'd like to see what spin you put on it.

BTW no one said all fans wanted him here, he said 35k, last time I checked that wasn't all fans.

 

My spin on it is this:

 

Not everyone (probably not even 35,000) wanted his appointment but I guess many, if not all, accepted it at the time as after a season of McLeish I reckon a lot of people thought it can't possibly be any worse and it should actually get better.

 

Now, just because a couple of thousand fans at an away game chant for his appointment then 2 seasons later chant for his head doesn't mean that they represent the rest of the fan base on either count.

 

I for one was rather nonchalant about his appointment but 2 seasons in and I want him gone.

[foreveryoung]

I fail to see how the likes of Guardiola, Mourinho, Simeone, Ancelotti, Klopp, to name a few, (If it was possible to get these managers) could not do a better job with the same resources as......Lambert.

[DelboyVilla]

I fail to see how the likes of Guardiola, Mourinho, Simeone, Ancelotti, Klopp, to name a few, (If it was possible to get these managers) could not do a better job with the same resources as......Lambert.

 

 

I'd even lump Pulis, Hughes, Allardyce and Bruce in there. They have all performed better under the circumstances!

[The_Lions_Roar]

I fail to see how the likes of Guardiola, Mourinho, Simeone, Ancelotti, Klopp, to name a few, (If it was possible to get these managers) could not do a better job with the same resources as......Lambert.

I agree, but its a bit of a pointless discussion isn't it, if we were mentioning names like Steve Clark and pulis then it would be worth discussing.

[The_Lions_Roar]

Solomonic & wise after the event fan base

You seem to talking down to those fans that could see what was happening. You shouldn't really judge others based on your need for undying support of Paul Lambert and lack of football knowledge.

Yes. Those same fans who wanted him here in the first place. Practically all 35,000 of them. If you are the exception to this fact then I bow to your superior fore sight, intellect & wisdom & subsequently demand the six numbers right now for this weekends National Lottery.

I know a lot of people that thought he was shite before he arrived and never wanted him. Certainly the 20/30 season ticket holders who frequent my local were not impressed with his appointment. I dont think it was as big a majority as you think

I think because a couple of thousand away fans sang his name at Norwich and because he isn't Alex McLeish people assume that all fans wanted him here. The reality is quite probably way less.

But when a couple of thousand fans sing for him to be sacked then we're told it should be treated as gospel, what's the difference here?

Do you really need me to explain it to you?

I don't need you to but I'd like to see what spin you put on it.

BTW no one said all fans wanted him here, he said 35k, last time I checked that wasn't all fans.

My spin on it is this:

Not everyone (probably not even 35,000) wanted his appointment but I guess many, if not all, accepted it at the time as after a season of McLeish I reckon a lot of people thought it can't possibly be any worse and it should actually get better.

Now, just because a couple of thousand fans at an away game chant for his appointment then 2 seasons later chant for his head doesn't mean that they represent the rest of the fan base on either count.

I for one was rather nonchalant about his appointment but 2 seasons in and I want him gone.

So we were told that the away fans chanting for Lambert to go means he's lost the fans. I agree it doesnt mean most fans want Ted him but if we're judging off then chanting for him to go meaning he's lost the fans then it works the other way around.

[Djemba_Villan]

Mourinho, unquestionably a world class manager, would have undoubtedly become a broken man &  hounded out of Villa Park by the Solomonic & wise after the event fan base with his reputation in tatters.

 

He would have been accused of being tactically inept, totally unable to either identify or motivate players & practically every fan would claim they didn't want him here in the first place. All this despite several of his major & influential purchases being out injured all season.

 

Once departed he would probably show up on the door step of Boing Boggies Albyun & lead them to their first ever Premier League title.

 

Get the picture?

 

Coudn't echo this any more.

Im sick of the same old retrospective arguments, same old "lost the dressing room" chiches, same old people twisting facts to suit their agenda (Holt being a BRILLIANT example of this...not praising the foresight of a manager to bring in a THIRD choice target man..oh no....let's moan because he's not a 20 y.o  unknown and ignore the fact he was brought in as that utter backup option).

[Big_John_10]

I wanted him as our manager when McLeish was sacked. But then that didn't blind me to the awful job he was doing. Nothing about hindsight, many fans could see exactly what was happening with this team.

I see a few who can no longer defend the manager have jumped at the chance to defend the idea that fans still want him here. Who cares? He's going.

[Isa]

It's a bit different when it's that way around though.  Not every manager could get Atleti where they are now, but with the players at their disposal a very good manager can make a real difference.

 

You could give a bad chef great ingredients and you wouldn't necessarily get a great meal.  You could give a great chef crap ingredients and they'd give it a go, but it'd still most likely be crap food.

 

With Lambert some would argue we've got a crap chef AND crap ingredients.  As he's only ever been sent to look around the bins after Tesco has shut, though, it's hard to say how he'd have done with more at his disposal.

Err...that's where I'd have to disagree on pretty much the same basis. I don't believe that every "chef" would've spent his budget on "crap ingredients". Again you are saying that every other manager couldn't have spent £40m any better. Not a belief I share.

I don't underestimate the importance of the manager. I just personally believe that there is a ceiling at this club that very few managers could break. I think with the investment that is there, the injuries we've had to key players that very few managers could have got us higher than, say, 15th. And it still wouldn't be acceptable in my eyes but I think the focus is on completely the wrong person. It is impossible to please the fans with the level of investment we currently have.

 

I don't think Lambert is so good. I think he's made some mistakes and he's infuriated me with some of his tactics. But no different that most other managers. I just happen to think starting again with a new manager with the same constraints will make virtually no difference and we'll all be back here in two years saying he was rubbish too.

Ok, I agree with you to an extent with the "glass ceiling" thing but I believe the ceiling under Lerner is that we cannot achieve any higher than mid-table mediocrity. The problem with Lambert is that he has proven he is incapable of even managing that. I don't believe that other half-decent managers would of actually regressed the team in their second season. I don't believe that they would've squandered most of their budget on a bunch of dross who have no right to play at this level. Nor do I believe that their coaching methods would be so poor that the team would still look like a bunch of strangers incapable of stringing a few passes together two years down the line.

[JohnStortford]

 

Paul Lambert says Aston Villa need to start spending big to avoid their seemingly constant battles to avoid relegation from the Premier League.

Villa head into the final two weeks of the season three points above the bottom three, albeit with a game in hand on all three teams in the relegation zone.

Lambert has been able to spend on a limited basis in the last couple of summers, with Christian Benteke proving a very shrewd signing in 2012, but he is looking to make a big splash this summer if given the money to do so.

The Scot has been linked with moves for Manchester United striker Javier Hernandez, Manchester City defender Joleon Lescott and Tottenham midfielder Lewis Holtby and he said: "I think a football club of this size needs that calibre of player.

 

"It's not acceptable for this club to keep doing this, it's been four years of battling against relegation. It's too big a football club to do this. That's the reality. I think everybody knows that."

Paul Lambert

"I'm not just talking about those three lads because it would be wrong for me to talk about them but we need that level of player for the size of this club, wherever they come from.

"This club needs big players.

"It's not acceptable for this club to keep doing this, it's been four years of battling against relegation. It's too big a football club to do this. That's the reality. I think everybody knows that."

But Lambert admits he has no idea what kind of budget he will have to spend on his squad this summer, as rumours continue to swirl about Randy Lerner's long-term commitment to the club.

He added: "The chairman will come out and say what he's got to say in May time, I think. I don't know what he's going to say and that's me being totally honest with you.

"This football club, with the tradition and history it's got, should not be fluctuating like this. You are where you are.

"The chairman will come out and be honest with everybody. It's his football club and I don't think anyone can ever be critical of what he's done for this club. There's no way anyone could do that and I'm pretty sure he'll say what he's got to say.

"I'm not breaking ranks. I'm just saying that a club this size needs to be up there (competing).

"I know the situation and Randy will say what he's got to say. I think he's been fair with everybody about exactly what's happened and he'll (speak) when the time's right."

Edited May 1, 2014 by JohnStortford

[jackbauer24]

 

It's a bit different when it's that way around though.  Not every manner could get Atleti where they are now, but with the players at their disposal a very good manager can make a real difference.

 

You could give a bad chef great ingredients and you wouldn't necessarily get a great meal.  You could give a great chef crap ingredients and they'd give it a go, but it'd still most likely be crap food.

 

With Lambert some would argue we've got a crap chef AND crap ingredients.  As he's only ever been sent to look around the bins after Tesco has shut, though, it's hard to say how he'd have done with more at his disposal.

Err...that's where I'd have to disagree on pretty much the same basis. I don't believe that every "chef" would've spent his budget on "crap ingredients". Again you are saying that every other manager couldn't have spent £40m any better. Not a belief I share.

I don't underestimate the importance of the manager. I just personally believe that there is a ceiling at this club that very few managers could break. I think with the investment that is there, the injuries we've had to key players that very few managers could have got us higher than, say, 15th. And it still wouldn't be acceptable in my eyes but I think the focus is on completely the wrong person. It is impossible to please the fans with the level of investment we currently have.

 

I don't think Lambert is so good. I think he's made some mistakes and he's infuriated me with some of his tactics. But no different that most other managers. I just happen to think starting again with a new manager with the same constraints will make virtually no difference and we'll all be back here in two years saying he was rubbish too.

Ok, I agree with you to an extent with the "glass ceiling" thing but I believe the ceiling under Lerner is that we cannot achieve any higher than mid-table mediocrity. The problem with Lambert is that he has proven he is incapable of even managing that. I don't believe that other half-decent managers would of actually regressed the team in their second season. I don't believe that they would've squandered most of their budget on a bunch of dross who have no right to play at this level. Nor do I believe that their coaching methods would be so poor that the team would still look like a bunch of strangers incapable of stringing a few passes together two years down the line.

 

 

I think we understand each other then  

 

My personal view is the glass ceiling is lower than you think it is and that is where, perhaps, the difference in the expectation of the manager comes from. My view is there has been a fair bit of bad luck this season which has contributed to the stagnation/ regression. Don't get me wrong, I'm a season ticket holder and have seen the crap we serve week on week and don't think Lambert is amazing or anything, I just happen to think very few managers we could attract would do noticeably better. And, for example using Pulis, would you want that manager if fighting for Europe? Accepting a manager who's an expert at relegation fights seems a bit defeatist to me.

[dn1982]

I wanted Lambert 2 years ago and was happy we got him as was nearly every one I spoke to even if not their first choice. I knew we would be cutting back and expected a lean period maybe not as lean as we have had and certainly not as long. I had high expectations this season based on the 2nd half of last season but somewhere the wheels fell off. The squad depth isn't there the quality of the first team isn't there and we still our a young squad who I feel struggle when things go against them. When our first team is fit and playing with confidence we are a top ten side. People saying Lambert is tactically inept discount our big wins as luck. They also say his transfers are awful but when he's spent decent money they've been good. For me Lambert is still a young manager making mistakes hopefully ones that don't get us relegated. He has worked under considerable constraints and he could have done things differently regarding the bomb squad etc but we are we're we are. I would like to see him given serious backing and see what he can do and if Lerner stays I hope Lambert does. If we are sold and have a lot of money to spend I wouldn't be too bothered as I think we would easily be able to attract a big name manager under such conditions. These are all things for the summer but for now until the end of the season at least Lambert and the team should be given as much support as possible they'll be time for dissecting once we know the future for our club.

[Jimzk5]

"i don't know what his going to say that's me being honest with you"

then follows it up with

"i know the situation and randy will say what his got to say"

which is it Paul?