Ingram85 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I think he's after an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 There are loads of comparisons to make regarding Lambert and other managers both for and against. For me I'd look at his record at Villa, which is not very good. Lerner might have his targets, but they fall short of my expectations of the season (I am aware this makes no difference to Lerner's opinion). They have also fallen short of most of our expectations when I read the 'where will we finish?' Thread the other day. He has had Benteke and Kozak for most of the season (one or the other). The only real problem we have had is Okore, who is unproven at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Real long term injury to a regular starter I should say. Benteke has still played a lot of league games in which we have been poor in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Lambert will stay to begin with. If he improves things with a better budget he will stay longer. He is better than what he has achieved here so and that's not surprise being asked to play champagne football on lemonade money. Em, Moyes managed in the Premiership while the comparison used for Lambert was promotion from the Championship and many managers have done that. It still comes nowhere near in substantiating the poster's point.Not many managers have overseen back to back promotions from League One, to the Championship, to the Premier League, followed by a strong season in the Prem with a team built by himself. Does that substantiate his point? Or are you specifically after an example of Lambert doing well in the Premier League? In which case, it's what you deem as acceptable that seems wrong, not the information that Eames has given.If you read what the poster has said in his post it has been stated as fact. I asked for evidence to prove that as previously the poster has asked others to prove their point with relevant evidence which others did yet it still wasn't accepted as it did not agree with his point of view. Taking his point that Lambert is better than what he has achieved here how can promotions from league one and the Championship substantiate that point. It simply doesn't. It would have been a much better comparison if Lambert had been more successful with another club in the Premiership like Moyes for instance. You simply cannot substantiate a point like that with promotions from inferior leagues as it cannot be made relevant to the point made no matter how much you try and twist it. Edited April 21, 2014 by shaggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDish Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 We have been in transition for years. That word is starting to annoy me. I see what you mean though and I agree better football and a top 10 would do nicely in the first season and looking at the league this season with Newcastle and how bad they have been they are still 9th so it's not too much to ask. Everytime we change manager without having a solid playing style fundament and appoint another manager with the same philosophy, we will be in transition. And it has been all shambles at Aston Villa since MON resigned, so we have, as you say, been in transition for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Shaggy, does Moyes' Everton career suddenley mean nothing because he has struggled at Man Utd. Use your noggin mate. Does Moyes Everton career mean he turned out to be the right manager for Man U? One can argue that he might turn it around given more time, but i think most United fans wan't him out in the summer as it clearly isn't working. Same thing with Lambert and Villa, he did well at Norwich, at Villa he's not worked out. It happens, better for both him and Villas to move on. Imo any more time given to Lambert is wasted time and money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 But its only an invalid comparison to you and bj. I'd say back to back to back promotions is more impressive than being a premier league manager. Even Shearer is better than Lambert by your bizarre logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Shaggy, does Moyes' Everton career suddenley mean nothing because he has struggled at Man Utd. Use your noggin mate. Does Moyes Everton career mean he turned out to be the right manager for Man U? One can argue that he might turn it around given more time, but i think most United fans wan't him out in the summer as it clearly isn't working. Same thing with Lambert and Villa, he did well at Norwich, at Villa he's not worked out. It happens, better for both him and Villas to move on. Imo any more time given to Lambert is wasted time and money But that's a separate issue from what was being talked about. I'm not disagreeing with you BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.I.C.O. Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Shaggy, does Moyes' Everton career suddenley mean nothing because he has struggled at Man Utd. Use your noggin mate. Does Moyes Everton career mean he turned out to be the right manager for Man U? One can argue that he might turn it around given more time, but i think most United fans wan't him out in the summer as it clearly isn't working. Same thing with Lambert and Villa, he did well at Norwich, at Villa he's not worked out. It happens, better for both him and Villas to move on. Imo any more time given to Lambert is wasted time and money Exactly. This whole thing just feels like the last days of O'Leary to me. You could have argued that Lerner should have kept DOL on when he took over if your going to use the same warped logic of the Lambert Fan Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Lambert came with some promise, but let's not kid ourselves and say that he did extremely well with Norwich. Tons of managers have done OK in the Championship, promoted and then finished decently in the Premier League. He finished 12th, it's not 7th, and Chris Hughton did even better than Lambert in his first season after Lambert left. The easiest jobs are the ones where you are just expected to avoid relegation, where you just set your team out to run a lot and play defensively. Look at Palace and Pulis, they are currently 11th and Stoke are 10th. So in other words, what Lambert did at Norwich was decent but far from spectacular. Look at his defensive record and you suddenly realize he cannot make a team defend for their lives! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 But its only an invalid comparison to you and bj. I'd say back to back to back promotions is more impressive than being a premier league manager. Even Shearer is better than Lambert by your bizarre logic. So by your own logic then you'd classify someone like Ian Holloway as being a better manager than he has shown in the Premiership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Lambert came with some promise, but let's not kid ourselves and say that he did extremely well with Norwich. Tons of managers have done OK in the Championship, promoted and then finished decently in the Premier League. He finished 12th, it's not 7th, and Chris Hughton did even better than Lambert in his first season after Lambert left. The easiest jobs are the ones where you are just expected to avoid relegation, where you just set your team out to run a lot and play defensively. Look at Palace and Pulis, they are currently 11th and Stoke are 10th. So in other words, what Lambert did at Norwich was decent but far from spectacular. Look at his defensive record and you suddenly realize he cannot make a team defend for their lives! Yup. The amount of goals Nowich conceded is 2011-2012 was shocking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.I.C.O. Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 But its only an invalid comparison to you and bj. I'd say back to back to back promotions is more impressive than being a premier league manager. Even Shearer is better than Lambert by your bizarre logic. So by your own logic then you'd classify someone like Ian Holloway as being a better manager than he has shown in the Premiership? Di Canio could have acheived back to back promotions if he'd have stayed with Swindon. Didnt make him any more of a success. Lambert will be consigned to the George Burley/Owen Coyle/Phil Brown drawer once this season is over. He'll have to rebuild his reputation somewhere else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Shaggy, does Moyes' Everton career suddenley mean nothing because he has struggled at Man Utd. Use your noggin mate. Does Moyes Everton career mean he turned out to be the right manager for Man U? One can argue that he might turn it around given more time, but i think most United fans wan't him out in the summer as it clearly isn't working. Same thing with Lambert and Villa, he did well at Norwich, at Villa he's not worked out. It happens, better for both him and Villas to move on. Imo any more time given to Lambert is wasted time and money Exactly. This whole thing just feels like the last days of O'Leary to me. You could have argued that Lerner should have kept DOL on when he took over if your going to use the same warped logic of the Lambert Fan Club. Have to agree with this. It seems to me the defence of Lambert on this forum is more to do with not admitting you have been wrong about him than looking at the evidence and then using common sense to decipher the information. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supervillan78 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Doug had already fired DOL and MON was in place before Lerner took over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 But its only an invalid comparison to you and bj. I'd say back to back to back promotions is more impressive than being a premier league manager. Even Shearer is better than Lambert by your bizarre logic. So by your own logic then you'd classify someone like Ian Holloway as being a better manager than he has shown in the Premiership? Di Canio could have acheived back to back promotions if he'd have stayed with Swindon. Didnt make him any more of a success. Lambert will be consigned to the George Burley/Owen Coyle/Phil Brown drawer once this season is over. He'll have to rebuild his reputation somewhere else. Yep. Look at Phil Brown. Got Hull City promoted for the first time in their entire history, and kept them up. Take Paul Jewell. Took Bradford to the Premier League and kept them there for a season. Then took Wigan from the League 1 to the Premier League as well, and kept them up. Where is he now? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Shaggy, does Moyes' Everton career suddenley mean nothing because he has struggled at Man Utd. Use your noggin mate. Does Moyes Everton career mean he turned out to be the right manager for Man U? One can argue that he might turn it around given more time, but i think most United fans wan't him out in the summer as it clearly isn't working. Same thing with Lambert and Villa, he did well at Norwich, at Villa he's not worked out. It happens, better for both him and Villas to move on. Imo any more time given to Lambert is wasted time and money But that's a separate issue from what was being talked about. I'm not disagreeing with you BTW Ok i think i'll stay out of that argument then For me it doesn't matter if Lambert was a good manager for Norwich or will be for his next club. The list of very very good managers and players who have moved to a new club and failed is endless. Moyes is one example, Villas-Boas who i quite like is another- he was great at Academica & Porto, didn't live up to the challenge at Chelsea or Tottenham but is now doing great at Zenit. IMO Lambert has failed at Villa and should be sacked in the summer. I guess if one believes that his remit was only to reduce wages and stay in the league he'll hopefully have done that at the end of the season and im sure Lerner will be very thankfull. If we are to rebuild the team with a new owner we need a more tactically astute, progressive and modern (look at all those fancy words) manager if we are to attract better players. Not this relic with outdatet tactics and coaching metods (incindentally one of the things Moyes is getting greif for at Man U) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.I.C.O. Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Have to agree with this. It seems to me the defence of Lambert on this forum is more to do with not admitting you have been wrong about him than looking at the evidence and then using common sense to decipher the information. Well DOL had to work under similar constraints in his last season, and he had acheived more than Lambert did in his first two seasons, just from changing our playing style and getting more out of the players he had. I didnt see anyone arguing to keep him on when Lerner came in, and that was because his last season was beyond defence and his attitude stank. No-one was saying "lets see what he would be like if he was given money to spend" or other such guff. Even before he was sacked for instigating the fictional player's complaint letter, when the takeover rumours were gathering steam, no-one wanted to keep him on. Everyone wanted a takeover to herald a complete change from the top to the bottom in how the club is run. That is what the club needs again. Lambert is Lerner's bag carrier and yes man. In the grand scheme of things that's why he was bought in, to take his £2million a year and be quiet about any constraints. Any new owners will get rid of him the moment the ink has been dried on the contracts. In fact I wouldnt be surprised if the wheels have already been put in motion. Edited April 21, 2014 by R.I.C.O. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Guys, he is going nowhere and will be our manager for the next few weeks. We really need to get behind him and the team, no matter what. We need to stay up and the good times will return. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.I.C.O. Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Guys, he is going nowhere and will be our manager for the next few weeks. We really need to get behind him and the team, no matter what. We need to stay up and the good times will return. I'm absolutely fine with that. I reckon Sid is doing most of the work behind the scenes anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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