Paul Lambert

[GENTLEMAN]

 

Consistency will eventually come under Lambert but we need to be patient for the time being.

Really, consistency is the bare minimum you expect from a halfway competent side. 

 

I hope the much-vaunted "project" is going to deliver something a little better than consistency.

 

What do you expect? Surely you want us to win on a regular basis? 

[Papillon]

 

 

Consistency will eventually come under Lambert but we need to be patient for the time being.

I do wonder that if our team 'grows up' and 'get the necessary PL experiance' and gets 'consistant', are they capable of targeting the top 6?

 

Yes. Potentially top 4 IF we invest bigger amounts in individual transfer targets and reinvest well from player sales. The sky is the limit for this club. 

 

 

True. But you also described the climate for every single club in the division! Swansea, Newcastle, Palace, West Ham - you name it. Man City were relegation fodder the season they were taken over, now they are the best team on the island. In theory it is possible to create a team with rubbles in the transfer market, if you isolate some of Wenger's buys over the years there are some absolute gems in there. However, Lambert and Wenger are so far from each other in the market it's not even possible to compare them. Let's not forget the only true success Benteke cost 7M, it's not like he was some 350k signing from League 1.

[GENTLEMAN]

True. But you also described the climate for every single club in the division! Swansea, Newcastle, Palace, West Ham - you name it.

 

Not at all, we are doing things differently at Aston Villa. We are investing in young players and planning for the future, we will only get better IMO. 

[TRO]

Before we get too carried away with mitigation, lets just remind ourselves how much these guys get paid( players)....paying lots of money does not guarantee success and equally they can't always live up to it. Managers too get paid handsomely and they also turn to mitigation with the swift hand of a swordsman.... to be sure,we are heading no where....as we speak.

 

In the Birmingham mail tonight David Moyes seems to be the get out jail card, with everyone and his grand mother siteing Man Utds situation as a catastrophe .....even little ole me could have predicted that.

 

They have won everything in sight under Ferguson for over 20 odd years, I hope ( not for David Moyes sake) they win nothing else for another 20 years....its somebody elses turn.

 

back to us...Whether Paul Lambert is our problem or not( to be debated), we have been like this for years, with a little respite from Martin O'Neill, who spent a fortune, created a limited standard of football , but got a semblance of results and in terms of results alone got some pride back in our club.....as far as substance and football development... zero.

 

what most of these managers do is survive a period of time with procrastinating comments about i need more time whilst accruing c 1 million a year salaries.....How many managers do you think you would get if you said massive payout at the end of the " plan" period....in the meantime reasonable salary....ha ha.

 

If a manager is serious about his job, he would insist in having a situation where if a player is not doing what is expected....he is withdrawn, there and then.....any other situation is untenable....but who would say that on C 1 million a year, it becomes a turning of a blind eye and trying to blind us with science, with after match comments....well if " we go again" is applicable.

 

I can't remember a scenario in recent times where a player is pulled off for not pulling his weight, its always injury related......or alternatively the manager just conveniently slides in to denial.

 

There is no one serious at this club about success, its become a prawn sandwich day out....and what revenue that brings.

 

we are in serious danger of this lot imploding and 10,000 have just about left already( football fans)....how many more.

Edited March 28, 2014 by TRO

[momo]

Before we get too carried away with mitigation, lets just remind ourselves how much these guys get paid( players)....paying lots of money does not guarantee success and equally they can't always live up to it. Managers too get paid handsomely and they also turn to mitigation with the swift hand of a swordsman.... to be sure,we are heading no where....as we speak.

 

In the Birmingham mail tonight David Moyes seems to be the get out jail card, with everyone and his grand mother siteing Man Utds situation as a catastrophe .....even little ole me could have predicted that.

 

They have won everything in sight under Ferguson for over 20 odd years, I hope ( not for David Moyes sake) they win nothing else for another 20 years....its somebody elses turn.

 

back to us...Whether Paul Lambert is our problem or not( to be debated), we have been like this for years, with a little respite from Martin O'Neill, who spent a fortune, created a limited standard of football , but got a semblance of results and in terms of results alone got some pride back in our club.....as far as substance and football development... zero.

 

what most of these managers do is survive a period of time with procrastinating comments about i need more time whilst accruing c 1 million a year salaries.....How many managers do you think you would get if you said massive payout at the end of the " plan" period....in the meantime reasonable salary....ha ha.

 

If a manager is serious about his job, he would insist in having a situation where if a player is not doing what is expected....he is withdrawn, there and then.....any other situation is untenable....but who would say that on C 1 million a year, it becomes a turning of a blind eye and trying to blind us with science, with after match comments....well if " we go again" is applicable.

 

I can't remember a scenario in recent times where a player is pulled off for not pulling his weight, its always injury related......or alternatively the manager just conveniently slides in to denial.

 

There is no one serious at this club about success, its become a prawn sandwich day out....and what revenue that brings.

 

we are in serious danger of this lot imploding and 10,000 have just about left already( football fans)....how many more.

How much did Ferguson win in his first three years? MON took Villa from relegation candidate to a top 6 team. Do you think there is any other possibility to reach top 6 and challenge for top 4 that fast without spending money? Do you think Lambert should be challenging for top 4 with this budget and team in this short pace of time?

[Mantis]

 

Before we get too carried away with mitigation, lets just remind ourselves how much these guys get paid( players)....paying lots of money does not guarantee success and equally they can't always live up to it. Managers too get paid handsomely and they also turn to mitigation with the swift hand of a swordsman.... to be sure,we are heading no where....as we speak.

 

In the Birmingham mail tonight David Moyes seems to be the get out jail card, with everyone and his grand mother siteing Man Utds situation as a catastrophe .....even little ole me could have predicted that.

 

They have won everything in sight under Ferguson for over 20 odd years, I hope ( not for David Moyes sake) they win nothing else for another 20 years....its somebody elses turn.

 

back to us...Whether Paul Lambert is our problem or not( to be debated), we have been like this for years, with a little respite from Martin O'Neill, who spent a fortune, created a limited standard of football , but got a semblance of results and in terms of results alone got some pride back in our club.....as far as substance and football development... zero.

 

what most of these managers do is survive a period of time with procrastinating comments about i need more time whilst accruing c 1 million a year salaries.....How many managers do you think you would get if you said massive payout at the end of the " plan" period....in the meantime reasonable salary....ha ha.

 

If a manager is serious about his job, he would insist in having a situation where if a player is not doing what is expected....he is withdrawn, there and then.....any other situation is untenable....but who would say that on C 1 million a year, it becomes a turning of a blind eye and trying to blind us with science, with after match comments....well if " we go again" is applicable.

 

I can't remember a scenario in recent times where a player is pulled off for not pulling his weight, its always injury related......or alternatively the manager just conveniently slides in to denial.

 

There is no one serious at this club about success, its become a prawn sandwich day out....and what revenue that brings.

 

we are in serious danger of this lot imploding and 10,000 have just about left already( football fans)....how many more.

How much did Ferguson win in his first three years? MON took Villa from relegation candidate to a top 6 team. Do you think there is any other possibility to reach top 6 and challenge for top 4 that fast without spending money? Do you think Lambert should be challenging for top 4 with this budget and team in this short pace of time?

 

With a shed-load of money.

[TRO]

1. Ferguson was building something that was sustainable and all those at the club that had the ability to recognise that did and kept him in a job....along with Mark Robins goal....thats how close he was to the sack.

 

2. Martin O'Neill (IMO) created a brand of football that in the main bore results, give us pride back, but did not produce the type of football like Ron Saunders did  that was sustainable and give us control of the game.....and for the amount of money spent I thought it was extravagant.

 

3. I think Lambert should be showing signs of improvement, the results against the top teams is encouraging but by definition, they do tend to give you space, against the lesser teams they deny you space ( in other words they work harder, more workmanlike, they press you, squeeze you) and in that respect we have shown no improvement at all....Paul Lambert has had 2 years to do a basic fundamental necessity, shouldn't need money just attitude and mental strength.

 

I think our club is riddled with excuses, I have even read, where some fans are blaming the fans for not singing.....its incredible.....what would happen if we had to play behind closed doors....its just too laughable for words.

 

can you imagine saying to one of the fans in say 1945 waving his rattle, its all your fault we are losing, you are not creating a good enough atmosphere....i've got to go before I **** myself laughing.

Edited March 28, 2014 by TRO

[smetrov]

 

Consistency will eventually come under Lambert but we need to be patient for the time being.

I do wonder that if our team 'grows up' and 'get the necessary PL experiance' and gets 'consistant', are they capable of targeting the top 6?

 

 

Sorry,but no. A lot of the players aren't good enough - it doesn't matter how old they are in that respect. Look at Ciaran Clark over 100 premier appearances now - any improvement has been nominal - and he sill isn't good enough. The only way this team gets better is if some better players are brought in. 

[GENTLEMAN]

Clark has improved and will get even better in the coming seasons, I cannot believe the senseless fatalism in this thread.

[TRO]

Clark has improved and will get even better in the coming seasons, I cannot believe the senseless fatalism in this thread.

 

more jam tommorow....roll up, get your new season tickets....eye up boss,it worked the lemmings are on the way.

 

Oh I am sorry, I didn't mean all that...I must be one of them.

[Mantis]

I don't think that's a very fair attitude at all.

[StefanAVFC]

Regardless of your point of view, is there any need for the passive aggression in this thread? It's making the thread unbearable.

[MikeMcKenna]

Regardless of your point of view, is there any need for the passive aggression in this thread? It's making the thread unbearable.

FFS "passive aggression" - it's a football fan site, deal with it!

[StefanAVFC]

Eh?

 

Methinks you've completely missed the point.

 

With that, back to off-topic I go.

[Papillon]

 

True. But you also described the climate for every single club in the division! Swansea, Newcastle, Palace, West Ham - you name it.

 

Not at all, we are doing things differently at Aston Villa. We are investing in young players and planning for the future, we will only get better IMO. 

 

 

That is your view. I don't buy the notion that it's a certainty that young "talents" get better over time, year by year and end up like superstars when they're 26. Some players are just not good enough now, and they will never be good enough in the future.

 

We are investing in kids because we can't afford the grown-ups. Not many of the kids are going to become stars in this league, because they aren't good enough. Our scouting department is lightyears behind the biggest clubs (again, because they can afford to have eyes everywhere and we cannot) and they will snatch the biggest talents before we even know who they are. Planning for the future? Not trying to be Piers Morgan here, but come on, that is a ridiculous statement. Every club is planning for the future in that regard. Squads are constantly being changed around to plan for tomorrow, not for a certain point in time which is at least five years ahead of us. It's about being the best you can be right now and next season, not to dream the fantasy of us being up there in the future. How many 5-year plans are we supposed to follow? If we're 15th in five years, will there be a new time-horizon? I better call General Krulak to find out, oh that's right, he bounced when his empty, hollow American gibberish came back to bite him in the ass.

 

We got lucky with Benteke and he is probably the only bargain chip for the current strategy. We will sell him and make a great profit no doubt, but it's not like we can buy 10 players and make a 200M profit and then know we have the cash to constantly sustain a challenge. He'll leave, we'll have money to spend but odds are we are going to struggle to find someone even remotely close to his ability and we'll struggle to score goals the following season. Let's say we finish 12th or 13th this season, which we probably will, it's not like we can expect to finish on a linear basis and jump up 2-3 places every season for the next five seasons when we lose Benteke. The league is filled with poor teams and some performing under their true ability, it will mix and sort itself out next season and we might as well finish 15th again - who knows?

 

With our noble strategy we get players like Lowton, Sylla, Luna, Tonev, Kozak, Helenius, Bennett, El Ahmadi, Westwood, Bacuna and Holt. Then we get to loan good players like Bertrand and we get dibs on known quantities like Vlaar every once in a while, which is very nice indeed, but almost every club down there get their hands on a few known players I would have liked to buy as well. Seeing that crop of players I don't think it's unreasonable to expect anything other than mid-table at best, every single season. Benteke was a great buy, Okore might be decent - nobody really knows yet, but we're talking about a few players out of 15 that barely manages to perform to the level of mediocrity. Take away Guzan, Gabby, Delph and Weimann and we really would have struggled to stay afloat. Many teams have tried to buy cheaply and develop from there, most if not all teams fail - and I don't see a single evidence of us being in contention to be on the good side of that statistic.

[villan_007]

True. But you also described the climate for every single club in the division! Swansea, Newcastle, Palace, West Ham - you name it.

Not at all, we are doing things differently at Aston Villa. We are investing in young players and planning for the future, we will only get better IMO.

 

That is your view. I don't buy the notion that it's a certainty that young "talents" get better over time, year by year and end up like superstars when they're 26. Some players are just not good enough now, and they will never be good enough in the future.

 

We are investing in kids because we can't afford the grown-ups. Not many of the kids are going to become stars in this league, because they aren't good enough. Our scouting department is lightyears behind the biggest clubs (again, because they can afford to have eyes everywhere and we cannot) and they will snatch the biggest talents before we even know who they are. Planning for the future? Not trying to be Piers Morgan here, but come on, that is a ridiculous statement. Every club is planning for the future in that regard. Squads are constantly being changed around to plan for tomorrow, not for a certain point in time which is at least five years ahead of us. It's about being the best you can be right now and next season, not to dream the fantasy of us being up there in the future. How many 5-year plans are we supposed to follow? If we're 15th in five years, will there be a new time-horizon? I better call General Krulak to find out, oh that's right, he bounced when his empty, hollow American gibberish came back to bite him in the ass.

 

We got lucky with Benteke and he is probably the only bargain chip for the current strategy. We will sell him and make a great profit no doubt, but it's not like we can buy 10 players and make a 200M profit and then know we have the cash to constantly sustain a challenge. He'll leave, we'll have money to spend but odds are we are going to struggle to find someone even remotely close to his ability and we'll struggle to score goals the following season. Let's say we finish 12th or 13th this season, which we probably will, it's not like we can expect to finish on a linear basis and jump up 2-3 places every season for the next five seasons when we lose Benteke. The league is filled with poor teams and some performing under their true ability, it will mix and sort itself out next season and we might as well finish 15th again - who knows?

 

With our noble strategy we get players like Lowton, Sylla, Luna, Tonev, Kozak, Helenius, Bennett, El Ahmadi, Westwood, Bacuna and Holt. Then we get to loan good players like Bertrand and we get dibs on known quantities like Vlaar every once in a while, which is very nice indeed, but almost every club down there get their hands on a few known players I would have liked to buy as well. Seeing that crop of players I don't think it's unreasonable to expect anything other than mid-table at best, every single season. Benteke was a great buy, Okore might be decent - nobody really knows yet, but we're talking about a few players out of 15 that barely manages to perform to the level of mediocrity. Take away Guzan, Gabby, Delph and Weimann and we really would have struggled to stay afloat. Many teams have tried to buy cheaply and develop from there, most if not all teams fail - and I don't see a single evidence of us being in contention to be on the good side of that statistic.

I apologise for not explaining why as I'm on the road, but this is a lot of assumptions, waffle and guff. I also detest this fans notion of we get 'lucky' when things go right. It's bollocks.

[Amo69]

I'm really worried about today's game. I would love Lambert to set us up the way he did against Liverpool and try and press high up the field but it's going to be impossible without Weimann and in particular El Ahmadi.

Will he go for a back 5 again? It's a tough one. Maybe play Clark as a holding midfielder if he is fit. Playing sylla will effectively reduce us to 10 men against the champions.

[Nigel]

I'm really worried about today's game. I would love Lambert to set us up the way he did against Liverpool and try and press high up the field but it's going to be impossible without Weimann and in particular El Ahmadi.

Will he go for a back 5 again? It's a tough one. Maybe play Clark as a holding midfielder if he is fit. Playing sylla will effectively reduce us to 10 men against the champions.

I just said the same thing in the match thread.

[Amo69]

I'm really worried about today's game. I would love Lambert to set us up the way he did against Liverpool and try and press high up the field but it's going to be impossible without Weimann and in particular El Ahmadi.

Will he go for a back 5 again? It's a tough one. Maybe play Clark as a holding midfielder if he is fit. Playing sylla will effectively reduce us to 10 men against the champions.

I just said the same thing in the match thread.

I wrote it here and then realised it should be in the match thread. But either way in scared of today's game.

[ArteSuave]

That is your view. I don't buy the notion that it's a certainty that young "talents" get better over time, year by year and end up like superstars when they're 26. Some players are just not good enough now, and they will never be good enough in the future.

Unbelievable. The only place that notion exists is in the straw man you've created to try and defeat.

Our scouting department is lightyears behind the biggest clubs (again, because they can afford to have eyes everywhere and we cannot) and they will snatch the biggest talents before we even know who they are.

Yeah, so many bargain buys in the big clubs' lineups. I sure wish we could have spotted some of them International regulars and brought them in for meagre fees of barely more than £20m.