pacbuddies Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Is our team really that bad? Mmmm... let me think about that one for a moment...... Yes, we are crap. Do you believe the players and managers performed at precisely their level this season? In that there was no scope for improvement based on what you see as their ability, or for things to be done better by the personnel involved? If you think they performed below what they're capable of, then we're not "that bad" - we just underperformed If you think they performed at their level, then we're probably not "that bad" either, because we stayed up If you think they performed above their level, then we're most definitely "that bad" Which bit of 'Yes, we are crap' did you not understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Is our team really that bad? Mmmm... let me think about that one for a moment...... Yes, we are crap. Do you believe the players and managers performed at precisely their level this season? In that there was no scope for improvement based on what you see as their ability, or for things to be done better by the personnel involved? If you think they performed below what they're capable of, then we're not "that bad" - we just underperformed If you think they performed at their level, then we're probably not "that bad" either, because we stayed up If you think they performed above their level, then we're most definitely "that bad" Which bit of 'Yes, we are crap' did you not understand? The bit where you answer the question I asked you. You said we're crap, I would agree. I'm trying to figure out what level of crap you reckon we are though. I think the first one personally, we're crap, but we're about the right level of crap for midtable in the premier league, as opposed to crap enough to be relegation troubled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Is our team really that bad? Mmmm... let me think about that one for a moment...... Yes, we are crap. Do you believe the players and managers performed at precisely their level this season? In that there was no scope for improvement based on what you see as their ability, or for things to be done better by the personnel involved? If you think they performed below what they're capable of, then we're not "that bad" - we just underperformed If you think they performed at their level, then we're probably not "that bad" either, because we stayed up If you think they performed above their level, then we're most definitely "that bad" Which bit of 'Yes, we are crap' did you not understand? The bit where you answer the question I asked you. You said we're crap, I would agree. I'm trying to figure out what level of crap you reckon we are though. I think the first one personally, we're crap, but we're about the right level of crap for midtable in the premier league, as opposed to crap enough to be relegation troubled I think the fact that AVFC are at any degree of crap is quite disconcerting. I long for the day when we are no longer crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Indeed, sadly we need to work up the levels of crappiness before we can be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 How many of our first eleven would go to another Premiership Club ? Pretty much all of them. Just likje Davies, Davis, Ridgewell, Bardsley, Cahill, Wittingham, Sidwell, Dunne, Collins, Routledge etc etc. Tells you all you need to know about how much is fans moaning/being pessimistic/grass is always greener, and how much is accurate assessments of ability. Withthe odd exception, they are all, just like all that went before them, of Prem quality. Now, as to whether they are Top 10 quality, thats different, but they are all - as are the players of other Clubs - much of a muchness. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 And at his best , PL got Top 10 form out of them, and at his worst, got relegation form out of them. Just like most Managers with similar players. Cases in point, Pardew and Allerdyce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 And at his best , PL got Top 10 form out of them, and at his worst, got relegation form out of them. Just like most Managers with similar players. Cases in point, Pardew and Allerdyce. I am sorry 41 points and 38 points suggest to me that we have 2 awful seasons in a row with record breaking home defeats or have we forgotten all that? Any team can play quite well in about half a dozen games a season, even Fulham looked half decent occasionally. We are nowhere near a top 10 side and unless this much talked about takeover happens before September, this will not change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 We are nowhere near a top 10 side and unless this much talked about takeover happens before September, this will not change. We're 4 results in a season away from top 10. In the middle of the league, that's not really all that much 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 And at his best , PL got Top 10 form out of them, and at his worst, got relegation form out of them. Just like most Managers with similar players. Cases in point, Pardew and Allerdyce. I am sorry 41 points and 38 points suggest to me that we have 2 awful seasons in a row with record breaking home defeats or have we forgotten all that? Any team can play quite well in about half a dozen games a season, even Fulham looked half decent occasionally. We are nowhere near a top 10 side and unless this much talked about takeover happens before September, this will not change. No I haven't forgotten and nothing I have said suggests I have forgotten. I am simply making the point that at his best PL got some great results, worthy of a Top 10 side, and at his worst it was relegation material. I have no interest in whether something was record breaking or not - I would be just as unhappy with our home Form, for example, had it not also meant we broke a record - what is the relevance ? You say 'nowhere near a Top 10 side- well I wasn't saying we were but actually we are at present 11 points away. No more, no less, hardly 'nowhere near'. Yeovil are 'nowhere near', as are Fulham. We are 'quite near', it would be reasonable to say. Equally it would be reasonable to say we are quite near to being relegated - and the same goes for about 10 Clubs, give or take. The point I was making was that despite much rending of garments and gnashing of teeth about certain players, it has all been said before about previous players, ad naseum, and it is largely irrational and unwarranted, dare I say it ill informed, as those players all went on to perform at the same level, i.e. the Premiership, despite apparently being 'absolute tripe' at the time, and I would argue these current players would also, largely, go on anfd olay for Premiership Teams. Therefore, it follows that they really aren't awful at all, they just are what they are along with about another 100 or so players from other Clubs in a similar position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 For example - and that's all it is, I know chickens aren't cars and my Uncle isn't my Aunt - but if you simply reversse the 2 results against Newcastle, we would have fineshed above them - yet they were 10th and being touted for Europe. Just 2 simple results and we would be past them. And yes, the opposite point can be made, our results against Norwich reversed would send us down. So anyone should be able to deduce the pretty simple fact that there is little to choose between the majority of sides in the League. That's it, little to choose. We are neither much better, much worse, or much different, to most anyone else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo69 Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Is it fair to say the players are not good enough for a club like Aston Villa in the eyes of the fans? As opposed to them all just being 'shit'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 you can spend a great deal on players and wages and still end up a poor side. but in our case gambling on lower league and overseas players has not worked out, most gambles were worthy ones but alongside the bomb squad and lack of experienced proven signings we have shot ourselves in the foot. Injuries may well have masked any progress we did make last season or they could have provided a scapegoat. If Lambert shows the sense and humility to use the bomb squad, get in a few experienced loans and use our youth players wisely then things could turn around somewhat. That and more luck with injuries, but we are still talking about keeping our head above water. Until we get a bit of depth and cover in key positions we will always be two injuries away from a relegation fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 It's a pretty poor first team and as a 'squad' it is even worse. The only remotely good players that we have are Guzan, Vlaar, Delph, Westwood and Benteke, the rest are either average or shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Without any spending, we have: ---------------Guzan--------------- ------------------------------------ -Lowton---Vlaar-Okore---Bennett ------------------------------------ ---------Westwood--Delph--------- ------------------------------------ --Bacuna---Weimann---Gabby---- ------------------------------------ -------------Benteke--------------- Plus: Bent, NZogbia, Clark, Baker, Donacien, Hutton, Luna, Bowery, KEA, Kozak, Tonev, Helenius, J Grealish, C Robinson, D Johnson, Add in a couple of signings - e.g Bertrand, Lescott, Hoolahan etc. Is it really that bad? ---------------Good----------------------------------------------------Shite---Average-Whoknows---Shite---------------------------------------------Shite--Class-----------------------------------------------Shite---Shite---Average-----------------------------------------------------Class---------------Plus: Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite, Whoknows, Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite, Tooearly, Shite, Whoknows, Whoknows, Whoknows, Whoknows That's my honest assessment without any claret and blue specs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Come on, Westwood isn't shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 This thread especially the last page. Currently we are better than Hull, WBA, Norwich, Fulham and Cardiff, the last three being relegated. We are worse than 14 other teams in the Premiership. That isn't a fluke as we managed that last season as well. The table never lies or so I was informed when we were in mid table this season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 People just aren't factoring in Benteke's injury and him probably missing the first half of the season, aside from the Hull first half, we looked completely toothless in the other games without him, we didn't create many chances v Saints, Swansea and Palace without did we? In fairness I can see Kozak popping up with some goals but generally teams will find it much easier to defend v us as Benteke is more than just a goalscorer when he's in form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Amusing how a post of simple facts and logic which removes the extremes is so easily ignored. And in some cases laughed at, e.g. by 'shaggy'..odd that people would so willingly ignore simple truths - not disputing them, debating them, just mocking them - in favour of attacking their own players. Do those having a laugh at our team and the comments of some level headed fans have an answer to the popints made ? Do they disagree that that list of ex-players was similarly - wrongly- often derided as no good, yet have all gone on to careers in the PL ? Do they disagree that those now rubbished in the same way will likewise nearly all go on and have careers in PL or near PL Clubs ? Do they fail to see that whatever Clubs sites you look on the same comments are being made ? However high up or low down the tree you go ? And that as such the derisory comments say far far more about the people making them and their demands than they do about the realities ? Just interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Without any spending, we have: ---------------Guzan--------------- ------------------------------------ -Lowton---Vlaar-Okore---Bennett ------------------------------------ ---------Westwood--Delph--------- ------------------------------------ --Bacuna---Weimann---Gabby---- ------------------------------------ -------------Benteke--------------- Plus: Bent, NZogbia, Clark, Baker, Donacien, Hutton, Luna, Bowery, KEA, Kozak, Tonev, Helenius, J Grealish, C Robinson, D Johnson, Add in a couple of signings - e.g Bertrand, Lescott, Hoolahan etc. Is it really that bad? ---------------Good----------------------------------------------------Shite---Average-Whoknows---Shite---------------------------------------------Shite--Class-----------------------------------------------Shite---Shite---Average-----------------------------------------------------Class---------------Plus: Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite, Whoknows, Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite, Tooearly, Shite, Whoknows, Whoknows, Whoknows, Whoknows That's my honest assessment without any claret and blue specs You call that an assessment ? As assessments go it reveals an astonishing lack of assessment. I am guessing that 'shite' is pretty much as low as you can assess...say 1/10 ?..so you actaully think our Club is composed almost entirely of players who pretty much shouldn't be playing football ? Well presumably you think PL is some sort of absolute genius then ? Keeping that pile of rubbish up ? Surely an almost impossible task ? And my God, those players in the Teams below us ? They will need a whole new classification of excrement to describe them won't they ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Without any spending, we have: ---------------Guzan--------------- ------------------------------------ -Lowton---Vlaar-Okore---Bennett ------------------------------------ ---------Westwood--Delph--------- ------------------------------------ --Bacuna---Weimann---Gabby---- ------------------------------------ -------------Benteke--------------- Plus: Bent, NZogbia, Clark, Baker, Donacien, Hutton, Luna, Bowery, KEA, Kozak, Tonev, Helenius, J Grealish, C Robinson, D Johnson, Add in a couple of signings - e.g Bertrand, Lescott, Hoolahan etc. Is it really that bad? ---------------Good----------------------------------------------------Shite---Average-Whoknows---Shite---------------------------------------------Shite--Class-----------------------------------------------Shite---Shite---Average-----------------------------------------------------Class---------------Plus: Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite, Whoknows, Shite, Shite, Shite, Shite, Tooearly, Shite, Whoknows, Whoknows, Whoknows, Whoknows That's my honest assessment without any claret and blue specs You call that an assessment ? I did not As assessments go it reveals an astonishing lack of assessment. I am guessing that 'shite' is pretty much as low as you can assess...say 1/10 ? No. It's more hyperbolic. ..so you actaully think our Club is composed almost entirely of players who pretty much shouldn't be playing football ? Well pretty much, yes. Well presumably you think PL is some sort of absolute genius then ? Keeping that pile of rubbish up ? Not really but he did a good job of keeping them up. But then he did buy most of them. Surely an almost impossible task ? No. And my God, those players in the Teams below us ? I know right! They will need a whole new classification of excrement to describe them won't they ? Probably. I will consult my brother who is a Fulham fan. Please see my responses in bold. I do indeed think we are total garbage. I am trying to look at our players if I were neutral and I can't think of more than 2 or 3 who I'd want in my team presuming I am a fan of a different Premier League team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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