terrytini Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Fair enough if that is what you think. Sorry you really must feel bad !! (Except you DID say it was an assessment then said you didn't ? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 it is worth pointing out that often even when our first 11 has been decent its never been for the full 90 mins. Usually we seem to play well for 20 to 30 mins a game and if we score during that period we sometimes get a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Fair enough if that is what you think. Sorry you really must feel bad !! (Except you DID say it was an assessment then said you didn't ? ) So I did. My apologies. Either way I do feel very negative towards pretty much all of our current team. It's difficult not to when they've given us nothing but misery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 (edited) Fair enough if that is what you think. Sorry you really must feel bad !! (Except you DID say it was an assessment then said you didn't ? ) Terrytini, Its clear you have an ability to play things down and put on a happy face and quite honestly I applaud you for that. I guess you see the best in most things and that is great. some of us are not so gifted. I have watched all the home games this season and last and i can tell you my eyes did not lie to me....quites apart from analysing the results and stats, I choose to watch the players and look at their individual performances that come together to form a team performance, I look at their demeanor during a game, i watch the positions they take up ......sure there are different circumstances from game to game but over a decent period an experienced fan usually gets the gist of a players worth. Just like a team, anyone can form a case for a player that is rubbish, mitigation can be presented in art form.....The courts hear it every day. We have been playing some low grade football for some considerable time, before Paul Lambert even, but that doesn't make it any easier. For what its worth, i think we players that are poor.. more in terms of consistency than ability and they have problems with their character in terms of stamping their authority on a game. In short they take defeat too easily. It strikes me that we have put little emphasis on the will to win character of the player and more on the silky skills, problem is the physical game don't always let you display those silky skills and a bit of ugly work needs to be employed....most of our squad are not capable of that IMO. I was and still am to a degree in favour of lower league " hungry players " big burning question is did we just simply get the wrong ones....in my view yes. its all opinions.....problem is we feel compelled to come on here( due to our passion for AVFC) and spout our pennyworth, when in truth we don't know the half of what goes on at B6, all we can base our judgment on is what happens on the pitch during match day....If we did know the behind the scenes stuff we may form some different opinions, but then they would only relate to mitigation, because what happens on the pitch is there or all to see. Edited May 26, 2014 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordSepulchrave Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 it is worth pointing out that often even when our first 11 has been decent its never been for the full 90 mins. Usually we seem to play well for 20 to 30 mins a game and if we score during that period we sometimes get a result. This is true, although it's probably more accurate to say we tend to have one good half, one bad half rather than just 20-30 minutes. Has been one of the big things that worried me over the course of the season was when we had a good half but didn't score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Fair enough if that is what you think. Sorry you really must feel bad !! (Except you DID say it was an assessment then said you didn't ? ) Terrytini, Its clear you have an ability to play things down and put on a happy face and quite honestly I applaud you for that. I guess you see the best in most things and that is great. some of us are not so gifted. I have watched all the home games this season and last and i can tell you my eyes did not lie to me....quites apart from analysing the results and stats, I choose to watch the players and look at their individual performances that come together to form a team performance, I look at their demeanor during a game, i watch the positions they take up ......sure there are different circumstances from game to game but over a decent period an experienced fan usually gets the gist of a players worth. Just like a team, anyone can form a case for a player that is rubbish, mitigation can be presented in art form.....The courts hear it every day. We have been playing some low grade football for some considerable time, before Paul Lambert even, but that doesn't make it any easier. For what its worth, i think we players that are poor.. more in terms of consistency than ability and they have problems with their character in terms of stamping their authority on a game. In short they take defeat too easily. It strikes me that we have put little emphasis on the will to win character of the player and more on the silky skills, problem is the physical game don't always let you display those silky skills and a bit of ugly work needs to be employed....most of our squad are not capable of that IMO. I was and still am to a degree in favour of lower league " hungry players " big burning question is did we just simply get the wrong ones....in my view yes. its all opinions.....problem is we feel compelled to come on here( due to our passion for AVFC) and spout our pennyworth, when in truth we don't know the half of what goes on at B6, all we can base our judgment on is what happens on the pitch during match day....If we did know the behind the scenes stuff we may form some different opinions, but then they would only relate to mitigation, because what happens on the pitch is there or all to see. I actually disagree with almost none of that............but it irks me when people Overdo it - it is the case that the majority, if not all, of our first 11-15 would get into Premiership teams, just like all the ones I listed who were derided at various times in the recent past doing so. I am not saying we are anything special, far from it, just trying to bring some perspective to people who, IMO, are being too harsh on the quality of what we have in comparison to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Fair enough if that is what you think. Sorry you really must feel bad !! (Except you DID say it was an assessment then said you didn't ? ) Terrytini, Its clear you have an ability to play things down and put on a happy face and quite honestly I applaud you for that. I guess you see the best in most things and that is great. some of us are not so gifted. I have watched all the home games this season and last and i can tell you my eyes did not lie to me....quites apart from analysing the results and stats, I choose to watch the players and look at their individual performances that come together to form a team performance, I look at their demeanor during a game, i watch the positions they take up ......sure there are different circumstances from game to game but over a decent period an experienced fan usually gets the gist of a players worth. Just like a team, anyone can form a case for a player that is rubbish, mitigation can be presented in art form.....The courts hear it every day. We have been playing some low grade football for some considerable time, before Paul Lambert even, but that doesn't make it any easier. For what its worth, i think we players that are poor.. more in terms of consistency than ability and they have problems with their character in terms of stamping their authority on a game. In short they take defeat too easily. It strikes me that we have put little emphasis on the will to win character of the player and more on the silky skills, problem is the physical game don't always let you display those silky skills and a bit of ugly work needs to be employed....most of our squad are not capable of that IMO. I was and still am to a degree in favour of lower league " hungry players " big burning question is did we just simply get the wrong ones....in my view yes. its all opinions.....problem is we feel compelled to come on here( due to our passion for AVFC) and spout our pennyworth, when in truth we don't know the half of what goes on at B6, all we can base our judgment on is what happens on the pitch during match day....If we did know the behind the scenes stuff we may form some different opinions, but then they would only relate to mitigation, because what happens on the pitch is there or all to see. I actually disagree with almost none of that............but it irks me when people Overdo it - it is the case that the majority, if not all, of our first 11-15 would get into Premiership teams, just like all the ones I listed who were derided at various times in the recent past doing so. I am not saying we are anything special, far from it, just trying to bring some perspective to people who, IMO, are being too harsh on the quality of what we have in comparison to others. That's because of how we ended the season, if the season had finished after the Chelsea game most people would probably agree we have a Premiership team that's a few decent players off being mid table, but after ending the season so terribly and losing to almost everyone a lot of people have reached the conclusion that we have the worst team in the league and our early results were nothing but luck. I still think the current team can just about avoid relegation and with 3 or 4 decent players (I'm not talking world beaters, just some solid players with a bit of experience) we could be mid table and not in that horrible relegation battle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alakagom Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) Without any spending, we have: ---------------Guzan--------------- -------------------------------------Lowton---Vlaar-Okore---Bennett ------------------------------------ ---------Westwood--Delph--------- --------------------------------------Bacuna---Weimann---Gabby---- ------------------------------------ -------------Benteke--------------- Plus: Bent, NZogbia, Clark, Baker, Donacien, Hutton, Luna, Bowery, KEA, Kozak, Tonev, Helenius, J Grealish, C Robinson, D Johnson, Add in a couple of signings - e.g Bertrand, Lescott, Hoolahan etc. Is it really that bad? Highlighted players are not good enough for us at this level, that is the truth. This is not Championship we are talking about, it's Premier League and we have to compare this team to others. They have matches of brilliance, but are just NOT consistent enough to be first starters. Few like Bacuna and Westwood can still improve, but atm should be not in the first eleven if we are to be winning consistenly. Edited May 27, 2014 by Alakagom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Without any spending, we have: ---------------Guzan--------------- -------------------------------------Lowton---Vlaar-Okore---Bennett ------------------------------------ ---------Westwood--Delph--------- --------------------------------------Bacuna---Weimann---Gabby---- ------------------------------------ -------------Benteke--------------- Plus: Bent, NZogbia, Clark, Baker, Donacien, Hutton, Luna, Bowery, KEA, Kozak, Tonev, Helenius, J Grealish, C Robinson, D Johnson, Add in a couple of signings - e.g Bertrand, Lescott, Hoolahan etc. Is it really that bad? Highlighted players are not good enough for us at this level, that is the truth. This is not Championship we are talking about, it's Premier League and we have to compare this team to others. They have matches of brilliance, but are just NOT consistent enough to be first starters. Few like Bacuna and Westwood can still improve, but atm should be not in the first eleven if we are to be winning consistenly. But we aren't going to be winning consistently, we are a bottom half of the table team. Winning consistently is something the top 6/7 should expect. The rest of us are going to be inconsistent so unless we get a new owner willing to splash the cash we shouldn't be binning off anyone because they are inconsistent. If we get players that perform consistently at a high level better teams will sign them. We're in survival mode at the minute with an owner that has lost interest, until someone new comes in those players ARE good enough to see us avoid the drop, as they have proven over the last year or two. Once we grow enough to not be too concerned with relegation then we can look at a higher calibre player, let's not get ahead of ourselves though 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One For The Road Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 The moment I saw the word BENNETT it became clear there was only one answer to this question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) It has been said many times on here,but I will reiterate, we are missing a midfield talisman.....and it has been ignored/dismissed for too long. One that is not necessarily blessed with all the technical ability, but can hold his own, has been around the block, knows the score and can help the young lads believe we can win... when a defeat would have been much easier to settle for. That bit of iron edge that see you through a season, the old campaigner that the opposition look at and say "we are in for a game today" To say we haven't got one at a club like Aston Villa is like going in to a season without a goalkeeper.....yes it is that bloody stupid for football management professionals to even contemplate ignoring. Edited May 27, 2014 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Bring Gravesen out of retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 It has been said many times on here,but I will reiterate, we are missing a midfield talisman.....and it has been ignored/dismissed for too long. One that is not necessarily blessed with all the technical ability, but can hold his own, has been around the block, knows the score and can help the young lads believe we can win... when a defeat would have been much easier to settle for. That bit of iron edge that see you through a season, the old campaigner that the opposition look at and say "we are in for a game today" To say we haven't got one at a club like Aston Villa is like going in to a season without a goalkeeper.....yes it is that bloody stupid for football management professionals to even contemplate ignoring. We could spunk everything we've got on Gareth Barry alone and we'd most likely be a completely different proposition 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David-Copenhagen Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Just bring back Barry. That would make me happy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickjacobjr Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Team ain't that bad but poor squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 The coaches have been poor. The manager has been poor to disastrous and the chairman has lost interest. Team Lambert has in affect failed and will continue to fail until the club internal set up changes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Failed? With such a poo set of coaches and players it is miraculous that we have not been relegated . Those who are now on the manager out bandwagon are making the case for him to stay either the players he has signed are more capable of delivering better performances in which case he is to be applauded for spotting great talent at stupid lurches and criticised for not getting as much out of them, or they aren't top hitch yet and you get what you pay for but he deserves huge credit for keeping us up. Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Who employed the coaches Richard? Who purchased the players Richard and who then presided over two relegation battles with no improvement when those defending him said it would take a season for the new players to bed in. Rather than be credited with keeping us up he should and has been widely condemned for reaching parity with probably one of the worst managers this club has ever seen. Making a case for him to stay is not through performance but rather through the devil you know and that is based on who would want to come in and work under the present circumstances hence my previous comments elsewhere that Lambert is one very lucky man still being in a job when anywhere else he would have been sacked. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Team ain't that bad but poor squad The team is dreadful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Team ain't that bad but poor squad The team is dreadful Watched the Championship playoff on Saturday and both Derby and QPR have better defence and midfield than us. Lambert and Lerner have really taken us to a low level of quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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