Popular Post NurembergVillan Posted May 27, 2014 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted May 27, 2014 I think the England team is poor because young English professionals are a reflection of most English guys of the same demographic. We make millionaires out of teenagers who have achieved nothing. They spend their millions on sports cars, tattoos and women, and lose focus on their profession. Go out on any Saturday night in a small town from Sutton Coldfield to Stockport and you'll find plenty of young lads who are only separated from footballers by the cash and fame. Professional sportsmen shouldn't have similar lifestyles to plasterers and retail staff. It seems so prolific in this country, footballers sordid tales and unprofessional behaviour. You don't see as much of it happening with the foreign players, whether they're based abroad or here. Whether it's national darling Stevie G punching a DJ or Kyle Walker inhaling laughing gas, I can't think of many foreign players who would get into their national team and lead lifestyles like that. Look at the best players in the world - Ronaldo, Messi, Xavi, Agüero, Lahm, Chiellini - they're all amazing professionals. Look at England's best players - Rooney, (previously) Ashley Cole, Gerrard - and you can see they're separated from greatness by their professionalism. England's superstars are celebrity millionaires first and footballers second. I don't get that feeling with the majority of top foreign players. I believe that coaching, or foreigners in the PL are only part of the problem. It runs deeper. It's cultural. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I blame LAD culture.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 27, 2014 Moderator Share Posted May 27, 2014 England's superstars are celebrity millionaires first and footballers second. I don't get that feeling with the majority of top foreign players. I believe that coaching, or foreigners in the PL are only part of the problem. It runs deeper. It's cultural. Without a doubt. If every player playing in the PL was English I still don't think we would be that much better as a national side, it would though increase the pool of players to select from and perhaps mean we could have a few more characters like James Milner. That said, the issues at international level pre-date the influx of foreign players by some considerable time. It isn't though correct to say that the number of overseas players is a PL symptom, is symptomatic of all levels of our game perhaps for the very reason you highlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted May 27, 2014 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted May 27, 2014 UKIP will soon put a stop to all this. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I think the England team is poor because young English professionals are a reflection of most English guys of the same demographic. England are not poor. Northern Ireland are poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted May 27, 2014 Moderator Share Posted May 27, 2014 I think the England team is poor because young English professionals are a reflection of most English guys of the same demographic. England are not poor. Northern Ireland are poor. For the size of country, pool of players, quality of club teams, and level of investment into the English football industry - England are relatively poor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I dont see how you can blame foreign players for England not winning anything.Most of Brazil`s players play in europe yet they are still the team to beat at internationals ( playing the samba way )as far as coaching goes players from countries that do not have a very strong league come to England and go streight into the first team, players like T.Cahill and M. Schwarzer ( Australia ) Benteke, Hazard,Kompany and players from Japan,Norway etc etc. I think, if an English player is good enough he will be in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 27, 2014 Moderator Share Posted May 27, 2014 That is a pretty confused post there PussEKatt. It isn't so much that people blame foreign players for England not winning anything, it is that they believe their presence stops the development of English players. The argument being that if you have a domestic league with 100% English players you have a better chance of producing a good team than if you only have 50%. Now numerically you will certainly have more to choose from, the question is will the quality improve as a result. That is far less certain. As for your point in relation to Brazil, that is a very confusing point as it really has nothing to do with the debate or at least the point you are trying to make. Brazil export large numbers of players as well as having a high number of Brazilian players in their domestic game. They don't have the same issue as England, quite the opposite in fact. As for players from countries without strong domestic leagues I'm not really sure how that is relevant either. Unless you are saying you don't have to have a strong domestic league to produce good players. But the point is these players are all playing in foreign leagues, English players don't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Yeah the Brazil point completely baffled me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Yeah the Brazil point completely baffled me. That's because you're from Canada, buddy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 27, 2014 Moderator Share Posted May 27, 2014 Yeah the Brazil point completely baffled me. That's because you're from Canada, buddy. He can't be, he hasn't got a Canadian flag anywhere on his profile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 27, 2014 Author VT Supporter Share Posted May 27, 2014 I think the England team is poor because young English professionals are a reflection of most English guys of the same demographic. England are not poor. Northern Ireland are poor. For the size of country, pool of players, quality of club teams, and level of investment into the English football industry - England are relatively poor. Actually, I think England perform more or less as you'd expect them to for those criteria. We're not "poor". We're just "as poor as we should be" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 We're not poor at, we are pretty good, we just have heightened expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I would rather have more foreigners, a better league and a smaller pool of higher quality Englishman. You can only take 23 to the World Cup and you can only play 11 in the team so having 100 or 200 players to pick from is irrelevant since most won't be good enough to get called up by England anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Yeah the Brazil point completely baffled me. That's because you're from Canada, buddy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I think the England team is poor because young English professionals are a reflection of most English guys of the same demographic. England are not poor. Northern Ireland are poor. For the size of country, pool of players, quality of club teams, and level of investment into the English football industry - England are relatively poor. Actually, I think England perform more or less as you'd expect them to for those criteria. We're not "poor". We're just "as poor as we should be" Yeah I never understood this idea that we always fail. We make a lot of QF or R016 appearance which puts us anywhere between 5th and 16th, I think that's about where we should be. Oddly enough, it's often the moaners that give unrealistic expectations like SF minimum, then say we fail when we don't get there. Something to moan about I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 27, 2014 Moderator Share Posted May 27, 2014 I think given the strength of our domestic league it is fair to say that we under perform at international level compared to some of our European counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I don't think domestic league is really a good comparison though as it's not just English players. Just like I wouldn't say Brazil overachieve because their domestic league is shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) Yeah the Brazil point completely baffled me. That's because you're from Canada, buddy. Which one are you 91? Edited May 27, 2014 by lapal_fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunRickyRun Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) Look at the best players in the world - Ronaldo, Messi, Xavi, Agüero, Lahm, Chiellini - they're all amazing professionals. Look at England's best players - Rooney, (previously) Ashley Cole, Gerrard - and you can see they're separated from greatness by their professionalism. Personally, I think the former group and the latter group are separated more by their ability to trap a football (ie technique) rather than any significant difference in professionalism. English players are good at the diving header, pressing, fitness and the last ditch tackle but how many times do you see an England player chase down a ball after bad first touch or have to run alongside the ball in order for it to slow down before controlling it (probably after an inaccurate 10 yard pass)? It comes down to technique which is ultimately down to an inadequate number of coaches in this country. Edited May 27, 2014 by RunRickyRun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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