Mantis Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 so the answer to FIFAs mistake of involving politics with football would be for all the FAs to involve politics with football? not thanks... its a human rights and construction governing body issue, i'd rather the likes of the CIOB tackled this problem than the english football team This. Makes much more sense than taking the Liverpool approach and putting on black armbands, which doesn't really do anything to actually address the problem either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 When has a black armband ever been put on a flag? Yet alone for someone completely unattached to that country. It would achieve nothing as well. If someone should do something it should be someone like the UN to step in and say "it's not OK for someone to host a global event when effectively using slave labour". If the FA's are left to be the ones to do something about it, they should boycott the tournament, but that will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 so the answer to FIFAs mistake of involving politics with football would be for all the FAs to involve politics with football? not thanks... its a human rights and construction governing body issue, i'd rather the likes of the CIOB tackled this problem than the english football team you expect the FAs to do anything? FA stands for ... you guessed it. the fans can carry black armbands on their flags out of respect. no, the exact opposite i dont want the FA or FIFA doing anything I dont want fans or players doing anything this isnt a football problem, this is a Qatar, human rights and construction problem, the fact that they are building stadiums (or stadium, not all of them have started, and construction in Qatar is much bigger than just the WC) is just a bi product, therefore if you want someone from the UK banging the drum it should be the HSE, the CIOB and the foreign office, the FA shouldnt be anywhere near it these stadiums wont be designed and built by Qatari mickey mouse construction companies, trying to do things on the cheap and sacrificing health and safety to do it, they'll be done by huge multi national companies, more often than not based outside of Qatar, who's lobbying them to change the way they run their sites? barking up the wrong tree trying to make some sort of stand with FIFA the world cup isnt even the biggest construction project in Qatar, look up sharq bay crossing, spanish architects, yank construction company, lets see what their health and safety record is going to be like but of course its only the stadiums that are employing immigrants and treating them poorly so yeah get the black armbands out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 black armbands on flags would be a publicity issue-raising statement. let's not forget the people who died to make this event happen. the fans can do what they like with their flags. if they want to show respect and understanding for those who died they are free to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Flags don't have limbs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 3, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted March 3, 2014 ... because of the massive, avoidable death tolls associated with the badly-managed stadium building programmes But why would that be England's thing to honor? we're at the competition - what's happened is everyone's responsibility. black armbands on every flag. What a bizarre suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 On the BBC's 100 day to the world cup countdown they had the Senegal shock win over France in 2002. Watching Vieira he looked very awkward, people said he should of played for them as he was born there and lived there for the first 9 years of his life. He just looked uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 ... because of the massive, avoidable death tolls associated with the badly-managed stadium building programmes But why would that be England's thing to honor? we're at the competition - what's happened is everyone's responsibility. black armbands on every flag. Bullshit! What has happened in Brazil and Qatar is all down to the respective countries, safety laws and lack of corporate responsibility. These guys, and excuse me for being blunt about a very sensitive matter, would have been at the risk of peril no matter what they were doing. If it was a highway, a construction site to build a school or a huge corporate building or something else, the same rules and lack of safety would have applied. Care all you want since it's about football, but I guess you don't really pay attention to Brazilian construction ethics when it's not. Stop being Mother Theresa just to take the moral high-ground. This is football, those tragic deaths have nothing to do with the tournament and the other countries participating - it's an issue for the country they live in. I guess hundreds and thousands of people die in that country every year because of hazardous constructional work, but that's how it is in underdeveloped countries and there's nothing you can do to change it. The Olympics in Sochi was all about the same thing, people paying attention to what happened to workers before the games begun. The games were a success and the sites were wonderful, if political parties in various countries condone the ethics they should do something about it on a political stage before and after the games, not during, as it's highly opportunistic and it won't shed a single difference. Norwegian Prime Minister Erna Solberg tried to attack Medvedev on semi-live television about what's going on, and what happened? He got angry and she got attention in our newspapers, which was all she wanted. Medvedev and Putin don't give a shit about Norway in the big picture, other than keeping a good, albeit shallow relationship to us. I wanted to see the Olympics and all its glory, not see a pathetic attempt to gain political popularity by addressing something that cannot be changed even if the person devoted her life to do so. Let's see what happens in the foreseeable future, my guess is that political parties don't give a shit anymore about Russian EHS violations. The situation in Ukraine is of course a totally different matter, which I will not go into, as we all know a potential war is something that concerns every single country. Brazil is a divided country. They are very much on the rise because they have vast amounts of natural resources. In terms of GDP they are already 7th in the world and they ship out extreme amounts of iron ore to China and other countries. However, they are something like 75 in GDP pr. Capita and that paints a picture of a developing country with a lot of poor people who are obviously working their asses off for the minimum of wages to survive. It happens everywhere on this planet, but it's doesn't stop people from developed countries taking the moral highway saying it should be stopped. Stopped how exactly? By writing posts on an Internet forum saying England should wear black armbands and paint over the flag? What a stupid suggestion, it wouldn't solve anything. The world doesn't work that way, the country will change eventually but it will take decades of reforms. It's not like Brazil can put in new laws tomorrow and change everything in a week, resulting in zero deaths and safer environments. The workers are used to this, they have done it all their lives and their parents too, they are used to taking chances to get a job and they know the hazards presented with it. When one person dies there's probably 30 workers waiting to take his job the next day. The World Cup should be about football and celebration. How the stadiums were built is up to the individual country hosting the tournament. The only thing possible is to NOT give those countries the opportunity to host a tournament, which means you have to bitch to the FIFA and not pretend you care a whole lot about Brazilian construction workers. I am not saying this is OK at all, it's obviously tragic, but what's normal in the UK and my country Norway is not necessarily normal in Brazil. Just look at the legal systems around the world as well, what's insane and preposterous in one country might be the normal situation in Africa. A few armbands and a condemnation won't get you anywhere, except for the fact that you will probably feel a little bit better about yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 On the BBC's 100 day to the world cup countdown they had the Senegal shock win over France in 2002. Watching Vieira he looked very awkward, people said he should of played for them as he was born there and lived there for the first 9 years of his life. He just looked uncomfortable. That's understandable either way. Unlike Diego Costa rejecting the chance to play for his country in a home World Cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 ... because of the massive, avoidable death tolls associated with the badly-managed stadium building programmes But why would that be England's thing to honor? we're at the competition - what's happened is everyone's responsibility. black armbands on every flag. Bullshit! What has happened in Brazil and Qatar is all down to the respective countries, safety laws and lack of corporate responsibility. These guys, and excuse me for being blunt about a very sensitive matter, would have been at the risk of peril no matter what they were doing. If it was a highway, a construction site to build a school or a huge corporate building or something else, the same rules and lack of safety would have applied. Care all you want since it's about football, but I guess you don't really pay attention to Brazilian construction ethics when it's not. Stop being Mother Theresa just to take the moral high-ground. This is football, those tragic deaths have nothing to do with the tournament and the other countries participating - it's an issue for the country they live in. I guess hundreds and thousands of people die in that country every year because of hazardous constructional work, but that's how it is in underdeveloped countries and there's nothing you can do to change it. The Olympics in Sochi was all about the same thing, people paying attention to what happened to workers before the games begun. The games were a success and the sites were wonderful, if political parties in various countries condone the ethics they should do something about it on a political stage before and after the games, not during, as it's highly opportunistic and it won't shed a single difference. Norwegian Prime Minister Erna Solberg tried to attack Medvedev on semi-live television about what's going on, and what happened? He got angry and she got attention in our newspapers, which was all she wanted. Medvedev and Putin don't give a shit about Norway in the big picture, other than keeping a good, albeit shallow relationship to us. I wanted to see the Olympics and all its glory, not see a pathetic attempt to gain political popularity by addressing something that cannot be changed even if the person devoted her life to do so. Let's see what happens in the foreseeable future, my guess is that political parties don't give a shit anymore about Russian EHS violations. The situation in Ukraine is of course a totally different matter, which I will not go into, as we all know a potential war is something that concerns every single country. Brazil is a divided country. They are very much on the rise because they have vast amounts of natural resources. In terms of GDP they are already 7th in the world and they ship out extreme amounts of iron ore to China and other countries. However, they are something like 75 in GDP pr. Capita and that paints a picture of a developing country with a lot of poor people who are obviously working their asses off for the minimum of wages to survive. It happens everywhere on this planet, but it's doesn't stop people from developed countries taking the moral highway saying it should be stopped. Stopped how exactly? By writing posts on an Internet forum saying England should wear black armbands and paint over the flag? What a stupid suggestion, it wouldn't solve anything. The world doesn't work that way, the country will change eventually but it will take decades of reforms. It's not like Brazil can put in new laws tomorrow and change everything in a week, resulting in zero deaths and safer environments. The workers are used to this, they have done it all their lives and their parents too, they are used to taking chances to get a job and they know the hazards presented with it. When one person dies there's probably 30 workers waiting to take his job the next day. The World Cup should be about football and celebration. How the stadiums were built is up to the individual country hosting the tournament. The only thing possible is to NOT give those countries the opportunity to host a tournament, which means you have to bitch to the FIFA and not pretend you care a whole lot about Brazilian construction workers. I am not saying this is OK at all, it's obviously tragic, but what's normal in the UK and my country Norway is not necessarily normal in Brazil. Just look at the legal systems around the world as well, what's insane and preposterous in one country might be the normal situation in Africa. A few armbands and a condemnation won't get you anywhere, except for the fact that you will probably feel a little bit better about yourself. That is quite a long rant but I would like to know if you would have wanted Brazil or Qatar to be awarded the WC knowing that if different countries had been chosen hundreds of deaths could have been avoided? FIFA has blood on their hands IMO and the only hope is that this will be a spotlight on the work practices speeding some sort of reform along in those places. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) brazil has had what you unfortunately call an average number of deaths for stadium construction and this with the deaths in Qatar, like i said before its not just stadiums and the world cup where these deaths are happening, its Qatar construction in general, i doubt the part about getting immigrant workers in to work 60 hours a week was part of the Qatar FAs presentation i just dont get why people are jumping on FIFA for this, dont get me wrong i dont support the idea of the world cup being there, but this is a much wider spread problem that football, if they didnt have the world cup and werent building stadiums these workers would be dying building shopping centres over there and no one would care... its a construction problem not a football one and you need to be careful when looking at the stats, most reports (including the main guardian one) says 500 indians and 382 neplalese workers have died since the world cup has been awarded, it doesnt say they've died building stadiums...Qatar is currently spending £130bn on construction, as far i know only 1 stadium has broke ground so far, they havent all died on that site, i cant actually find anything saying anyone has died on that site, the guardian report claims that they are dying building world cup infrastructure, thats not necessarily true, its infrastructure that was always happening anyway Edited March 7, 2014 by villa4europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardiffGreens Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) Just seen that the World Cup Trophy is coming to Cardiff (London, Glasgow and Manchester, but tickets aren't available for these places anymore) on Sunday. Just hope it's raining on Sunday so a) it'll keep the queues down and I can get away with wearing a jumper over my England shirt whilst I'm waiting in line =P Trophy Tour details Edited March 11, 2014 by CardiffGreens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVJgvMNARr4 Hard to argue against their complaints, really 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Just seen that the World Cup Trophy is coming to Cardiff (London, Glasgow and Manchester, but tickets aren't available for these places anymore) on Sunday. Just hope it's raining on Sunday so a) it'll keep the queues down and I can get away with wearing a jumper over my England shirt whilst I'm waiting in line =P Trophy Tour details Although it would be nice to see the World Cup, I've always thought it would feel a bit meaningless to see it if your team hasn't won it. Same goes for any trophy really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) This will make a lot of 90s kids happy, Japan are using Pikachu as their mascot for this summer's world cup. Edited March 15, 2014 by The_Rev 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVJgvMNARr4 Hard to argue against their complaints, really Just been reading about this, fans are suggesting Pele's support is quite impotent and more to do with money: http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/the-rio-report/legend-pele-branded-traitor-century-brazil-152432349.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 This will make a lot of 90s kids happy, Japan are using Pikachu as their mascot for this summer's world cup. My partner is a massive pokemon fan, has played the games since forever, she might watch the world cup now. Win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardiffGreens Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Pele's support is quite impotent Thought he'd be just the man for that... Edited March 16, 2014 by CardiffGreens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 How many players did Villa have at USA 94? I know they had Mcgrath, Staunton, Townsend, Houghton. Any others? Fashanu for Nigeria perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 25, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted March 25, 2014 Pretty sure Fash played for England didn't he? (obviously not at USA 94, I mean in general) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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