Jump to content

How will next season be different ?


BOF
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Moderator

by Malcolm Everall

When you consider that we have won just 7 times in 29 games and have only beaten the likes of Watford and West Ham, and them not convincingly, since the turn of the year, it is amazing that so many Villa fans are giving O'Neill such an easy ride.

Had we lost those matches we would now be in the relegation mix.

Now if O'Leary or Graham Taylor had been the manager, fans would be up in arms demanding change, especially if they had spent £20 plus million on players, wouldn't they ?

We started relatively well. The squad can, and have, done it at the start of the season, but since the loss at Liverpool things have visibly disintegrated. I think (and said at the time) we were very lucky to have even managed the level of success we had before Liverpool. I can not agree with this patience blarney either. We are supposedly a Premiership side on the up.

All around, things are moving in the right direction, apart from on the pitch. O'Neill from day one of Lerner's tenure has had everything a manager could wish for; everything all the previous managers under Ellis lacked. He has not been restricted in any way.

He has had the undivided adulation and backing of fans, players and owners. Try and name the last manager that did and you won't be able because it has never been the case. I've often been told he is the best man motivator in football and that he is a tactical genius; 'the man who will sort it'.

Well 9 games are left and in my view we are more impotent as a football team now than we were when he took over in the summer. We scored 40+ goals last year with a demotivated team and a manager allegedly without a clue.

All these improvements and we haven't reached 30 yet. It's pathetic.

Ok the media stills are better, the quotes were entertaining. They've paled off lately, the squad has improved in quality, it has improved in quantity, yet it has achieved 7 wins all season.

7 wins ladies and gentlemen and only 1 of them away from home and none of them at home against sides above us in the Premiership, since August.

But for my faith in the players as a whole to be able to scrounge enough points from the likes of Sheffield United and Boro, and the poor quality and position of those below us and the 6 points achieved against Watford and West Ham I'd be seriously worried we would get relegated.

Why ?

Because the man who has this perfect scenario, this wonder of a manager, is simply making a total balls of it all.

What will be different next season ?

Will fewer players get injured?

Will Petrov, Young and anyone else brought in be settled?

Will Lerner finance 10 new players?

"Are there 10 available players from Celtic?" I should probably ask first.

What will be so different, a better start, more organisation, a less intransigent selection policy, more flexible and varied tactics ? I hope so, because the honeymoon period is over, well over and unless someone can knit what players we have into a winning unit with a winning tactical policy we will be back here this time come next year.

Is O'Neill the man to do it?

He's not shown me much to suggest he can.

Of the 9 matches left, we have 8 against mediocre sides. Anything less than 12 points and 10 goals and I'd say we need a decent coach to take over the coaching even if O'Neill stays as the overall manager. It would be our only hope.

I simply can't see why we have to wait and wait until O'Neill gets up to speed. We are no longer the team under the no hope of Ellis. We are a club going forward, a club well on the up, results apart.

Aston Villa are now run, as is obvious to all, by a switched on management team. The only part lacking is the performance on the field, a performance that is accentuated in its failings by the wonderful setup that has been introduced so perfectly elsewhere at the club.

Martin O'Neill you are presently the weakest link. Sort it and quick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

we have had 5 matches since the new squad members came in and have had 2 wins, 1 draw and 2 defeats...

and in that time, fight has been apparent, we have performed well in most games and been unfortunate not to get better results...

take last night for example... 2 pens missed by an inept ref, a player not sent off when he should have been...

then to sum up the night one of their players gets the winner from a rebound off his arse, then later in the game they clear one off the line without knowing too much about it...

things arent perfect, mistakes are being made, and results DO need improving but its far from doom and gloom...

but still, some people will always find pleasure at us not being an instant success because it means that they are proven right in their minds...

and thats far more important to some, than anything else...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think MON will sort it - I remember graham taylor mk1 - going through a very similar scenario - the fans loved him, the press loved him, he was turning things round - but the reality was we were crap - we were getting beat regularly - we avoided relegation I think by a single point - and Taylor admitted he may have resigned had we gone down. - But the wake up call went out - GT shipped out the untouchables - and we kicked ass the next season.

Nothing against Cahil - but you need experience at the back when on such a run -

I don't think much of petrov - however having persisted this long - he may as well to the end of the season

I really rate Carew - but much of value is negated unless he has someone alongside him -

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
by Malcolm Everall O'Neill from day one of Lerner's tenure has had everything a manager could wish for; everything all the previous managers under Ellis lacked. He has not been restricted in any way.

No of course he wasn't Malc, not restricted at all by the transfer window slamming shut almost as soon as Lerner took the helm. New boss or not you can't buy players out of the window, if thats not a restriction I don't know what is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Malcolm, I read your post on "news now" and even though I'm short of time tonight I had to come on VP and reply. I enjoyed last nights match and thought we could easily have taken three points with a bit of luck as we totally outplayed Arsenal in the second half. 40,000 fans were there last night and 42,500 will be there on sunday so Villa fans are now demonstrably much more optimistic, and then I read your post.

What a negative outlook you have! I've been a Villa fan for five decades and I've lived through the highs and the lows, but now I believe that we are entering the most exciting period in our history. Give Martin time Malcolm and judge him in a couple of seasons when his team plans have come to fruition. It will take time to reverse our long decline and put us back in the top six, but I'm positive we will get there and I'm also certain that Mon is the man to do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We could have taken 3 points really!!

How with 2 shots on target and one of those was a lame shot into Lehman's arms.

when you consider the missed header, what a chance, and the several times Arsenal got behind our defence, even in the last few minutes I find both your suggestions hysterical.

that against a side of reserves in a team winning their first match in ages on the back of losing in 3 cup competitions daft.

why should I give him 3 seasons to succeed as I said above everything is progressing on at a frantic pace, only in the coaching department is the club failing.

Why, and again I ask, what will be different next season ? Oh sorry O'Neill will have a full summer to do his work, yes that will make a difference I'm sure, he's had 29 matches and as I said above we started well and have gone backwards ever since

Maybe he will get up to speed, in 3 seasons, he should with the conditions he's working under, but again I ask why should we wait for him to catch up

Link to comment
Share on other sites

that against a side of reserves in a team winning their first match in ages on the back of losing in 3 cup competitions.

Just read in the Grauniad that the Arse are the most in form team in the premiership this Year.

They have the most premiership points of any team in 2007.

so i think you are not quite giving them their due Malc. They are a very good side, and still fielded a strong side against us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We could have taken 3 points really!!

How with 2 shots on target and one of those was a lame shot into Lehman's arms.

when you consider the missed header, what a chance, and the several times Arsenal got behind our defence, even in the last few minutes I find both your suggestions hysterical.

that against a side of reserves in a team winning their first match in ages on the back of losing in 3 cup competitions daft.

why should I give him 3 seasons to succeed as I said above everything is progressing on at a frantic pace, only in the coaching department is the club failing.

Why, and again I ask, what will be different next season ? Oh sorry O'Neill will have a full summer to do his work, yes that will make a difference I'm sure, he's had 29 matches and as I said above we started well and have gone backwards ever since

Maybe he will get up to speed, in 3 seasons, he should with the conditions he's working under, but again I ask why should we wait for him to catch up

I'm glad you find my suggestions hysterical Malcolm because you obviously need cheering up, you carry on slagging off MON and I will carry on supporting Villa.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It took a while for Bobby Robson to establish himself at Ipswich. His first two seasons were a case of staying up.

In January 1975, Clough made a quick return to management with Nottingham Forest, who at the time were a Second Division side. A year later he was joined by his old assistant Taylor. They transformed the club's fortunes and the first success at the club came in Clough's second full season (1976-77) when they won promotion to the First Division.

Revie was made player-manager in March 1961 at Leeds. Although his tenure didn't get off to a flying start...

Herrera rejoined Stade Français for a third time now as manager. After three seasons with no trophies collected, the club's president opted to sell the franchise. Herrera moved to Spain, where he spent the next six years in minor stints with Real Valladolid, Atlético Madrid, CD Málaga, Deportivo de La Coruña and Sevilla FC, before entering a two year tenure with Lisbon side CF Os Belenenses. Later returning to Spain, he managed giants FC Barcelona, but several problems, including disagreements between him and star player Ladislao Kubala obliged him to leave the club in 1960.

Rijkaard had a disappointing start at Barcelona that saw some sections of the club's fans call for his resignation, and he drew flack from the media when the team lost to Real Madrid in December 2003. Rijkaard's resilience won through and from 2004 onwards, he achieved a massive turnaround, as the team went from strength to strength.

[benitez's] first season in charge of Liverpool was as inconsistent as it was glorious. The Reds' stuttering form in the Premiership was offset by progress in the Champions League. Liverpool would confound the critics in going on to lift the trophy for the fifth time... Benitez's men put in an inept first half display, trailing 3-0 atthe break - a scoreline which was kind to the Premiership team. The manager then made up for his error in team selection by bringing on Dietmar Hamann in place of Steve Finnan to great effect.

Ferguson's intention to leave an Old Trafford legacy got of to a slow start as his attempts to rescue United from the troubled state in which Ron Atkinson had left the club faltered. Ferguson initially appeared to have left his success in Scotland and after three years in the job, despite finishing second behind Liverpool in 1988, chants of 'Fergie out' could be heard emanating from the Old Trafford terraces. But behind the scenes Ferguson was rebuilding the club in minute detail. He had revamped the youth system, a move that would pay huge dividends a few years down the line, and he had stamped out the drinking culture at Old Trafford by shipping out many of the crowd's favourites.

(selections from Soccernet and Wikipedia, for convenience)

We keep trying to get across the idea, but apparently you're unwilling to receive it. A losing record and a difficult stretch in the first managerial year is not proof, nor even necessarily a strong indication, that the manager is incompetent or mediocre or limited or handicapped or whatever. It is no more reasonable to ignore the existing limitations on O'Neill's tenure to date (the transfer window, the revamping of club staff, the middling-at-best talent on hand to start with) than it is to ignore the problems we are seeing on the pitch (Agbonlahor, set piece defending, inconsistency).

Sorry, Malcolm, but your view is unjustifiably negative. The rest of us will continue to wait until we have clearer signs, instead of giving up on this manager and this board so quickly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

We are improving.

If you look at the home game against Chelsea earlier in the year, we got a draw through desire and hard work, but we played for a nil nil draw.

If you look at last nights game, we were the better side, we showed the ambition to take them on, for large chunks of the game we dominated them, and we lost.

I know that results are everything, but they don't always give you the best indication of development.

If we continue to improve, there's no reason to believe that next season shouldn't see our fortunes turn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

it is amazing that so many Villa fans are giving O'Neill such an easy ride.

perhaps they can't see what you can?...or.... perhaps you can't see what "we" can?

is it a case of "oh look my lad is the only one in step" (as the proud parent watches her army son march past on a parade? - are we all blinded similarly?

The stats are well known, the results are poor.

So why do people give MO'N "such an easy ride"? Perhaps we don't see MO'N as the weakest link, as you do?

Perhaps we see that he's an asset to the club, albeit a human one, and that a team and squad that has struggled for ages and in which too many have an ingrained sense of inferiority, or who in many cases just lack quality or experience, or both, will take more turning round than is possible in a brief restricted week or two in August, and a January window.

You said yourself at the start of the season that the squad was relegation zone standard, yet you don't see that as the weakest link?

It lacks balance and stability and cohesion and understanding. The manager has to work to resolve these intangibles, and that means changing players round and finding out, all the while whilst paying mostly against settled and talented opposition, of a higher or equal standard.

Far, far, too early in my book to be thinking of getting rid of the manager.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We could have taken 3 points really!!

How with 2 shots on target and one of those was a lame shot into Lehman's arms.

Well, I see a lot of Arsenal fans on different internet forums today who thought they were lucky last night.

that against a side of reserves in a team winning their first match in ages on the back of losing in 3 cup competitions daft.

A side that very nearly beat Chelsea's first XI in the League cup final a couple of weeks ago. Oh, sorry...a better side than the one who nearly beat Chelsea.

why should I give him 3 seasons to succeed as I said above everything is progressing on at a frantic pace, only in the coaching department is the club failing.

Because Aston Villa have been standing still in the last couple of seasons, bringing in mediocraty, whereas other teams have strengthened wisely. Our squad simply isn't good enough and we have a lot of catching up to do.

I also think that we, the fans, lack knowledge of how good other teams squads really are. We take a look at our squad and then at the other teams squads, teams that we like to think we're better than, we compare the players, and we come to the conclution that we are indeed better than them so why the heck aren't we ahead of them?

Take a player like Teemu Tainio at Spurs for example, linked with Villa in the january window. Injured in january when Spurs were shite, and now look at the last run of games where Spurs just can't stop winning, scoring a crazy 24 in the last 7, Tainio has been back in the side again. I'm not putting that all down to Tainio of course, but truly a great and very important player for Spurs.

Now, how many of us really wanted him back in january, when MON supposedly was after him? We didn't really know who he was, did we?

We think we have a squad equally as good as top half teams but we just don't. Sorry. And yes, I blame Ellis and O'Leary.

Like I said, we have a lot of catching up to do to yet again compete with the likes of Tottenham, Blackburn, Newcastle, Everton, Bolton and Portsmouth. And then there are four more teams I've heard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree entirely with the sentiment of malcs piece, I've voiced my concerns for a long time now I noticed with interest (:)) the poor, inept, sometimes downright shoddy performances, since before Christmas (the Sheff Utd away game was embarrassing). That said I still feel we have a gem in O'Neill.

The early season unbeaten run was no fluke........ The team was deliberately set up to be a bastard to beat, strong defenders all across the back line (Mellberg played full back) and the full backs given no license to get forward - I don't recall them getting past the halfway line much to the dismay of many on here, at the time the critisism of choice was the poor attacking qualities of our full backs. But they weren't being played to attack, they were set up not to be beaten, to be strong and not to be broken down.................. We went on the longest unbeaten run in the country.

It might be small consolation at the moment but that unbeaten run gave us the foundation to be where we are now. It gave the squad confidence and belief and without that run I think we might have found ourselves hovering around West Ham.

It is those early season displays that give me confidence in MON's abilities. I agree that MON may be a little off the pace right now but I think he can develop and regain the qualities he had before his "exile" from the Premiership.

In any case the whole point is about stability. I don't want to revert to AVFC type and hire em and fire em as soon as things go a little awry. I want MON to be here for a long time....... as long as it takes. I want him to grow and develop as the club grows and develops. I don't think there's another better candidate out there than MON to do that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm definitely prepared to give MON more time. Next season after the assumed purchasing in summer will be far more of a telling point than this moment in time. It's really too early to write him off considering the changes that are going on at Villa Park at the moment. In any case, sacking MON and getting in a new manager (which you seem to want) is NOT the way forward in our situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
...the poor, inept, sometimes downright shoddy performances, since before Christmas (the Sheff Utd away game was embarrassing)....

I went to sheffield, and felt that frankly it's a game, (maybe like Donny, and Burnley and Sheff U in the cup under DO'L) that we might have lost if MO'N hadn't come in. It's an example, I think, of how things have changed.

I said Villa were again obdurate in the face of the onslaught. Warms the cockles, after so many seasons of meek surrenders. in the linked report (also posted on VT) and while it may not be a sign of much, I do think it showed that things are improving, to an extent. Maybe only a little in terms of some results, but it's the getting beat easy thing that really got me down.

We don't have that so much now. Little steps, maybe, but the ethos and mentality ingrained has to change, and it's signs of that change, even if not fully evident, that allow me to be optimistic, rather than to take the same view as perhaps Malc and yourself have.

It's not a convincing argument, but then this isn't a debate about anything other than opinion and perception.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mellberg was only playing at right back because there was no one else to play there, not because we wanted this defensive unit. I agree with the earlier comment in that last season we would have lost alot of the games we have drawn this season. I think MON is on the right tracks and would urge fans to give him time. Unfortunately, that does not happen with Villa fans

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • VT Supporter
I think MON will sort it - I remember graham taylor mk1 - going through a very similar scenario - the fans loved him, the press loved him, he was turning things round - but the reality was we were crap - we were getting beat regularly - we avoided relegation I think by a single point - and Taylor admitted he may have resigned had we gone down. - But the wake up call went out - GT shipped out the untouchables - and we kicked ass the next season.

Nothing against Cahil - but you need experience at the back when on such a run -

I don't think much of petrov - however having persisted this long - he may as well to the end of the season

I really rate Carew - but much of value is negated unless he has someone alongside him -

...very good points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Malcolm, as has been pointed out history is littered with managers who didn't quite live up to expectations in theri first season but given the right amount of time and support they managed to turn things around (in some cases going on to win European cups). Infact, Leicester fans weren't too happy with O'Neill at first. Now what do they think?

There aren't many excuses for this run of form and cirtainly none that will sway you. It isn't good enough, I think the club from chairman to manager to players know that. But he must be given time to sort it out and why not? We're not going anywhere. You may want instant success, I think we all do. But that just isn't realistic is it?

Fast forward to December 07, if we're still where we are now then your article may be worth reprinting and I'll probably be in full agreement. But right now? Just too soon........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We could have taken 3 points really!!

How with 2 shots on target and one of those was a lame shot into Lehman's arms.

when you consider the missed header, what a chance, and the several times Arsenal got behind our defence, even in the last few minutes I find both your suggestions hysterical.

Gooners got behind our defence with the same matters as we had got behind their defense in our first three chances, which were considered as offsides and were NOT offsides, even replays showed it, but the same situations on the other side were not offside.

Were you blind?

With another ref, we could be easily 2:0 in front of Gooners instead of trailing 0:1, with three one on one with goalie chances, and the match would be over. We have no reputation with refs as "big four" teams have, so it was obvious in two not penalty decisions, both of hand plays in penalty area, and especially when Diaby got only yellow instead of red. Chelski, or ManUre could have easily two penaties, would play against 10 opposition men, but not AV. That was the difference last night. Not the performance, we were better, we had outplayed them.

Let´s give MON time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...
Â