madmangrog Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 There could be plenty of different things about Villa next season but I wonder if they will include tactics which aren't route one. I'd expect new players, I don't expect there to be as high a quality as some do especially when I don't think those brought in so far would automatically go into a top 10 or so side, even Carew. I don't expect the tactics to change away from route one style and that's a negative. I can't see O'Neill taking us much higher than now either despite all this optimistic view many have, unless he changes his attitudes to players he hasn't purchased, unless of course he buys a new side with cover in every area. Football in general has moved on years since O'Neill last managed in the Premiership, so far as good as some obviously think he is, he's not shown me much other than the over price purchase of a few players that he has. Moved on that is. I'd be pleased to hear from anyone who does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfcinwales Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 There isn't any proof that things will get better next season either Blandy, but there is plenty to suggest from this season that things aren't going as well as expected. I even see some rumour that Petrov is disappointed with the way things haven't happened as promised. I can't see either why people yourself included can't diverge the happenings on the field from what's happening off it. Whilst I accept they impinge on each other neither is completely dependent on the other. If the takeover had been acrimonious, if we had ended up with a tosser in charge, if he had bought someone like Fry in as manager I'd agree. But no, we went from a desperate situation to a wonderful one and whilst the likes of John Gregory, David O'Leary did well in their first season, all that has happened, despite huge sums by our standards being spent, is more of the same, in fact in my view we have gone backwards. But then anyone who read my comments on Taylor's tactics know I hate route one football, so I would. I'm sure O'Neill will sort it, I certainly hope he does, because I can't see a new manager getting much return on the players O'Neill has brought in and I can't see Lerner funding ad infinitum I still maintain, nothing I've seen so far, man motivation, team selection, players in, results on the pitch, tactics, have indicated to me O'Neill has done anything special and is the man to take us into Europe. Sure there's a new feeling about the place and why shouldn't there be with what's happened, but the results on the pitch have not been convincing all season, even when we were unbeaten. I've no real argument with Lerner anymore, every little bit of PR improves his standing but O'Neill, as much as I like him as a person and ambassador for Villa, hasn't done much to suggest I should be optimistic about the future on the field and whilst on the surface euphoria still rules, underneath it questions are being asked by an increasing number of people. None of us are saying sack him, no one is saying he's a total clearing in the woods, he obviously is not, but for a top class manager able to lead us into Europe let alone to be the next team to break into the top 4 he's got much to prove. Here's to him doing it next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunthos Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 I can't see either why people yourself included can't diverge the happenings on the field from what's happening off it. Whilst I accept they impinge on each other neither is completely dependent on the other. It's not clear to me where any serious poster here has shown an inability to diverge on-field and off-field happenings. You keep working yourself up with false dichotomies, to wit: - If one is not hopping mad and blaming only the manager about the team tactics used to date, - If one thinks that the transfers of the last nine months have better than no value, - If one believes that the club was not in a position to play well this year regardless of manager appointed ... then one must be hopelessly, stupidly blinded by a halo of MON invincibility. You erect this straw man, paint many posters (deserved or not) as adherents of this extreme view, attack it vigorously and sometimes viciously, and then wonder why people get (rhetorically) upset. I find your last post quite reasonable. MON does have to prove that he can take this club where we want it to go, and he has not proven that to date. I don't find his on-field choices to date necessarily stupid or uneconomical or lazy or uninformed or narrow-minded or favoritist or whatever, but that doesn't mean that I think his on-field choices have been brilliant. There's a lot of work to be done here. It's possible that he'll fail miserably. It's possible that he'll only be a partial success, and that someone else will have to take up the reins and carry the team to the top. The surface euphoria isn't nearly as much of a problem as you are making it out to be. It's really that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity-Tom Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 None of us are saying sack him, no one is saying he's a total clearing in the woods There are the odd one or two people who have said such things. I know it wasn't you but I just wanted to clarify this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 23, 2007 Moderator Share Posted March 23, 2007 There isn't any proof that things will get better next season either Blandy That's my point - no proof things will get worse, none they will get better. People reach a view on how they interpret the whole goings on at the club, on and off the pitch. there is plenty to suggest from this season that things aren't going as well as expected That would depend on people's expectations. Our position now (13th) is pretty much in line with my pre-season prediction (apart from I thought we'd do better in one of the cups, though in my defence the draws were both as hard as you can get). So for me they are not worse than expected. A quick search of the archives reveals this thread and also this one. You may or may not wish to look at your own expectations from pre-season. I even see some rumour that Petrov is disappointed with the way things haven't happened as promised. From the same source that said he was off back up to Celtic? Genuine question - unattributed rumours are not always reliable. I can't see either why people yourself included can't diverge the happenings on the field from what's happening off it. Whilst I accept they impinge on each other neither is completely dependent on the other. That's my view. They are not independent, but nowhere have I even hinted that I am unable to "diverge" the two. we went from a desperate situation to a wonderful one and whilst the likes of John Gregory, David O'Leary did well in their first season, all that has happened, despite huge sums by our standards being spent, is more of the same, in fact in my view we have gone backwards. Fair enough. I don't agree. I don't think we have shown much progress, but I do nevertheless think we have made some progress, basically because the squad needed and still needs a good deal of surgery. We have just the foundations, really. I see them as having been shored up, but not yet really built upon. I'm sure O'Neill will sort it, I certainly hope he does, because I can't see a new manager getting much return on the players O'Neill has brought in and I can't see Lerner funding ad infinitum... he's got much to prove. Here's to him doing it next season Fair enough, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfcinwales Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Well we obviously beg to differ then Blandy, but if we have to spend 20 million or thereabouts to shore up the side how much are we expected to need to get us going ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfcinwales Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Blandy On june 20th I said I'm sure someone can correct me, again, but when a similar question was asked last season after the HUGE expenditure on players the majority seemed to expect a high to midtable finish, thanks to the improvements made. Squad seems so far about the same as then, manager and coaching staff nearly the same, onlt the issues regarding Ellis have changed. Strange, has the normal over optimism been moderated by the various O'leary out and the players are rubbish campaigns. For the record, my opinion as of today, it may change by the time the transfer window has closed, remains the same as last year when the transfer window closed. We are short of players especially those of genuine quality and if we get a run of injuries or of off form players, O'leary and his team will struggle because the options from the bench remain far too limited. This time however, the corollary I added, that the optimism was completely unfounded in my opinion, can now be excluded, but you knew that didn't you. Was I right or was I wrong, and why would I not like to see that ?? On August 11 I said judging by some of the euphoria concerning O'Neill, anything short of winning the European cup will be a failure, and yes we haven't qualified, I do know. judging by the comments concerning the squad strength pre O'Neill relegation is a certainty, a guaranteed cast iron certainty. so logically somewhere between those two options seems about, right. Again I can't see why I wouldn't want to see that. Perhaps you meant this one where's the argument ?? he and his two cronies are a proven act based on their finishes at Leicester, their performance at Celtic was half decent too. yes he has never proved his European knowledge and ability, although Celtic didn't disgrace themselves, and he's not acknowledged as a European player purchaser or tactician, but as low as Villa are now it hardly matters does it, two consecutive years above 10th will be a revelation. Winning more than losing would too Ok what's wrong with that its all true isn't it, and what I believed, in fact I still do, so why would I not want to look at it ? Now if I'd said this Had things remained unchanged, I'd have said 18th and relegated. With just a new, excellent manager, I'd up that to about 14th With a new board I'd up it to 12th With money to spend, in time to spend it maybe 10th-6th and a very good cup run. I might be a little worried as we lie 14th and on the way downwards after having gained a new board, new manager, and having spent nigh on 20 million. 6-10 I wish and still have a little hope What is this fetish some have with looking back into peoples past comments to prove points. PFE is it ? Can people not change their minds, can people not be wrong. Look at me I waxed on about what a buy Petrov was after the West Ham match, how wrong I was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 23, 2007 Moderator Share Posted March 23, 2007 Blandy On june 20th I said ...my opinion as of today...remains the same as last year when the transfer window closed. We are short of players especially those of genuine quality and if we get a run of injuries or of off form players, O'leary and his team will struggle because the options from the bench remain far too limited.... Was I right or was I wrong?? You were broadly right - run of injury/off form players and we'd struggle. Guess what - Gabby, JPA, Hughes, Petrov!!..etc - off form. Laursen, Moore, Delaney - long term injuries...etc. On August 11 I said judging by some of the euphoria concerning O'Neill, anything short of winning the European cup will be a failure, and yes we haven't qualified, I do know. judging by the comments concerning the squad strength pre O'Neill relegation is a certainty, a guaranteed cast iron certainty. so logically somewhere between those two options seems about, right. Again, right - somewhere between top 4 and bottom 3 - mid table. We're 13th (not 14th). Mid table Again I can't see why I wouldn't want to see that. I said you may or may not want to see it, because to my mind we're where you said we'd be. So I kind of thought you'd like to see you were broadly right, but might not like to see that your expectations were somewhat lower than you appear to remember. he and his two cronies are a proven act based on their finishes at Leicester, their performance at Celtic was half decent too. ... as low as Villa are now... two consecutive years above 10th will be a revelation. Winning more than losing would too Ok what's wrong with that its all true isn't it, and what I believed, in fact I still do, so why would I not want to look at it? Because you again seemed to be saying that >10th place for a couple of years would be a "revelation". i.e. don't expect too much too soon, despite MO'N and his 2 chums being a "proven act", but you seem now to be lambasting them for all kinds of "failue to meet expectations. That's the way it reads to me, anyway. Now if I'd said this Had things remained unchanged, I'd have said 18th and relegated. With just a new, excellent manager, I'd up that to about 14th With a new board I'd up it to 12th With money to spend, in time to spend it maybe 10th-6th and a very good cup run. I might be a little worried as we lie 14th and on the way downwards after having gained a new board, new manager, and having spent nigh on 20 million. 6-10 I wish and still have a little hope We're now 13th - pretty close to the 14th with a new manager, 12th with a new board, too, that I said, No?. MO'N sadly didn't get time to spend in the summer - OK Petrov was rushed through, but Milner went the other way (out). Check the comments on the Jan window in that thread. What is this fetish some have with looking back into peoples past comments to prove points. PFE is it ? fetish? Are you sure?. You mentioned expectations people had, I thought I'd actually try and find out what they were. The threads are there for all to see, almost no-one expected more than mid table. So we're not falling way below expectations from the start of the season. Can people not change their minds, can people not be wrong. Look at me I waxed on about what a buy Petrov was after the West Ham match, how wrong I was Course they can. It's good to do so on the basis of evidence or argument. I quite like it when people say they've changed their minds, too. It happens rarely. It might be my engineering background, but I also like to check the "evidence" and logic, rather than go by emotional aspect, which change hugely after a win or two, or defeat or two. - Best ever/worst ever..etc. Anyway, I think our discussion may be sidetracking the thread. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfcinwales Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I think I can safely say my expectations since the takeover have been slightly under achieved by O'Neill and his lads. I had always thought he'd been away far too long from the Premiership and was wondering how he would perform. In truth I feel he has massively underachieved, because I still think the basis of the squad is no poorer in quality than any of those from 5 downwards. Now he's spent what he has I'd have expected more than we have seen since. You usually buy players in January to make an impact and get you out of trouble or a boost upwards, the opposite happened. I worry about next season, I can't see how he won't do better, but I have a nagging feeling there is an air of 'jobs for the boys' about his setup and its lacking the drive, the desire perhaps even the knowledge needed to do really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overdubber Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 I see Villa turning into one of those uncomfortable sides that are difficult to beat next season. It's good to see us investing in youth, and players comming through on merrit rather than reputation. Also good to see that the players we are buying are young(with exeption of Petrov, that is), and looking for a future, rather than those on their way out, which is what John Gregory seemed to like buying (apart fron Angel). Lets face it, with such a naff season (almost) behind us, things can only get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Interesting little thread from nearly a year ago this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlitobrigante Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 hahahahaha, i love reading malcolms posts from back when. I so wish he wasnt red carded, would love to read his thoughts on last season, and more importantly this season so far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 You can on another villa site. Still moaning about us not signing enough players and saying for 70m spent in the summer we should expect top 4 minimum or something along those lines. It was quite clear 06/07 was always going to be a rebuilding season so a bit of a knee jerk thread imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyVanParlour Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 You lot spent 70 MILLION in the summer?? :shock: For real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts