How will next season be different ?

[RonnieD]

What a miserable, pesimistic, depressing view you have taken on board Malcolm. Whilst you consider the 'patience blarney' to be only for the optimistic amongst us can I remind you that MON was calling for realism when we on our unbeaten run. He understands there is a lot of work to do and also understands that new players will be required and that this Summer will be crucial in the re-building process required. Thank god you have no influence over decision making at VP!! In spite of your ramblings I and many others look forward and FULLY SUPPORT the continuing efforts to drag the Villa back into contention in the not too distant future. No one ever said it would be an easy ride but if you and so called supporters like you keep letting down the tyres then the journey will be less enjoyable. Villa forever.

[LukeMoore]

it is amazing that so many Villa fans are giving O'Neill such an easy ride.

you sound bitter and angry that some of us don't want to jump on his back as quickly as you have.

You complain about the lack of goals we've scored but i don't see how you can blame MON for that.

Newcastle screwed us over with milner which meant gabby has had to play right mid apart from the last few games. Luke got injured so we've had to rely on a poor player in baros who didn't want to be here, angel whose goal scoring record over the last few years doesn't have to be brought up again and sutton who performed ok but is never going to score goals and struggled to stay fit. So again i don't see how he can be blamed for that.

TBH you were on his back 2 weeks into the job and before we'd played a game

You were on his back 5 days into the transfer window.

You said yourself villa are far away from being a european team but then you say that a manager in 13th place is massively underachieving at being a run of the mill manager.

will your attitude towards him change if we have a good season next year?

[KevMur]

Imagine MO'N managing Man City next season.

And them beating the crap out of us home & away next season, when we are still in transition under our new manager.

that would smart alot more than getting beaten 1-0 by the Arsenal.

[Jon]

it is amazing that so many Villa fans are giving O'Neill such an easy ride.

you sound bitter and angry that some of us don't want to jump on his back as quickly as you have.

exactly. Seems like Mlc is demanding we all wake up and smell the coffee. Why can't we all see that MON is in fact sh*t seems to be the jist of it.

will your attitude towards him change if we have a good season next year?

Judging by the fact that Malc has essentially been "dissing" MON since day 1, even when we had our superb start to the season, one would expect not.

[avfcinwales]

So I now want him sacked and by inference aren't a Villa fan, very interesting.

I'm also very negative, well that's not new I was always accused of all the above when I suggested from day one Graham Taylor was a waste of space second time around.

I keep saying I think O'Neill is doing a decent job, he always has, since he joined, we started with the best unbeaten run in the Premiership.

I've not got the time or inclination to delve through the internet to find quotes on managers who have had similar quotes and then ruined a club, but I'm sure from Villa memories many remember all those who backed, Taylor, Turner, McNeil, with much the same exhortations most of you are above.

Can someone please explain to me why since starting the season so well, after spending so much on players in January we are sinking desperately ?

This relegation squad is awful and not O'Neill's fault when we sink down the Premiership yet had been turned around by his genius when we went so long unbeaten. A dichotomy ?

I've lived with this jam tomorrow excuse too long, O'Neill isn't any run of the mill manager you all said well he certainly looks like one at the moment. He has taken a side and although it started well, the longer he's had control the poorer its got, that's a fact.

I'm more than willing to give him more time, but I'd be much happier for the Villa if the present scenario wasn't so similar to the one we had in Taylors first season.

I note too that a few pundits have come out with guarded criticism this week of O'Neill, Andy Gray and Le Tiss, maybe his easy ride is about to stop, a few more defeats and no doubt it will.

I still believe O'Neill is better than the present results, but for now all he is showing me is the performance of a poor manager by current day Premiership standards.

I'm sure he knows why Young is not played out wide and Gabby is. I'm sure Carew is an ideal foil for O'Neill's tactics, even if he lacks finesse in front of goal and I'm sure Petrov will come good in time.

Thing is at my age Lerner was a gift from Heaven, its a pity he doesn't have a coach in his team able to live up to all the other great works he is achieving

[pablopicasso]

So I now want him sacked and by inference aren't a Villa fan, very interesting.

I'm also very negative, well that's not new I was always accused of all the above when I suggested from day one Graham Taylor was a waste of space second time around.

I keep saying I think O'Neill is doing a decent job, he always has, since he joined, we started with the best unbeaten run in the Premiership.

I've not got the time or inclination to delve through the internet to find quotes on managers who have had similar quotes and then ruined a club, but I'm sure from Villa memories many remember all those who backed, Taylor, Turner, McNeil, with much the same exhortations most of you are above.

Can someone please explain to me why since starting the season so well, after spending so much on players in January we are sinking desperately ?

This relegation squad is awful and not O'Neill's fault when we sink down the Premiership yet had been turned around by his genius when we went so long unbeaten. A dichotomy ?

I've lived with this jam tomorrow excuse too long, O'Neill isn't any run of the mill manager you all said well he certainly looks like one at the moment. He has taken a side and although it started well, the longer he's had control the poorer its got, that's a fact.

I'm more than willing to give him more time, but I'd be much happier for the Villa if the present scenario wasn't so similar to the one we had in Taylors first season.

I note too that a few pundits have come out with guarded criticism this week of O'Neill, Andy Gray and Le Tiss, maybe his easy ride is about to stop, a few more defeats and no doubt it will.

I still believe O'Neill is better than the present results, but for now all he is showing me is the performance of a poor manager by current day Premiership standards.

I'm sure he knows why Young is not played out wide and Gabby is. I'm sure Carew is an ideal foil for O'Neill's tactics, even if he lacks finesse in front of goal and I'm sure Petrov will come good in time.

Thing is at my age Lerner was a gift from Heaven, its a pity he doesn't have a coach in his team able to live up to all the other great works he is achieving

how many games have we played since january and what have been the results?

[Faust]

I keep saying I think O'Neill is doing a decent job, he always has, since he joined, we started with the best unbeaten run in the Premiership.

That's odd, because I distinctly remember reading something else in the lead post. What was it now? Ah yes:

the man who has this perfect scenario, this wonder of a manager, is simply making a total balls of it all.

The other posts on this thread have done an excellent job of listing the myriad reasons why most Villa fans are willing to give O'Neill time, so I don't want to waste time re-iterating all of them. The critical point, for me, is that we have already improved since O'Neill freshened up our attack in Jan.

You ask where we would be if we hadn't beaten West Ham and Watford. You might equally ask where we would be if Carew's goal hadn't been disallowed against Newcastle and if we'd had a bit more luck in front of goal that game - a draw was the least our relentless attacking deserved. Where would we be if one of Young's chances against Reading had been put away? Where would we be if the scoreline against Arsenal had been a fairer reflection of our involvement in the game? That's three defeats - since Jan - which could easily have been draws or (bizarre as it may seem in the face of the Newcastle scoreline) wins.

You're writing as though we're being consistently played off the park. We're not. Since the Jan window, we've been playing some very decent football in spells - much better than last season. Sooner or later, results will start to go our way - and if it doesn't happen immediately, I'm confident that the addition of a few more players during the summer will make the difference.

In the meantime, I'd prescribe a cup of camomile tea.

[avfcinwales]

I'll try again.

I have often highlighted where I think O'Neill has done a decent job at Villa, that seems to be ignored.

I have often highlighted where I feel some have raised him to a level he does not deserve. If that is to be construed that I think he is awful so be it.

As a coach I am not impressed with him and I have not been so since early on in the season where I felt we were over achieving considering the poor decisions I felt he was making.

When others suggested his super abilities were the cause I objected. If that is construed I think he should be sacked, so be it.

After the win at Everton I waxed lyrically that the team had showed how good they could be and that O'Neill could still do it. If that is construed as having conflicting views so be it.

If suggesting adding a decent modern day coach is an indicator I want him out or I, at best, want him moving upstairs so be it.

If saying I think at the moment he stinks as a coach and hasn't done anything like enough to meet his original press on here, so be it.

I'm encouraged to see a few pundits coming over the parapet with similar thoughts this week, though.

If I'm keeping my options open so that if he fails next season, I can say I told you so, so be it, I'm sure if he succeeds plenty of you will soon be on my case to say I told you so.

NO?

I'll say again, keeping my options open, I still feel he is doing a great job for Villa, I think his tactical and selection decisions stink and have most of the season and that's why we are so poor in the Table.

I don't agree 13 th is were we should be with that squad before or after January. I don't agree a manager as built up by most of you when he joined, should be achieving such poor results, he just shouldn't and as such he is failing.

That doesn't mean I think he should be sacked, for me he is achieving just as I expected him to, maybe slightly less, but there are still 9 matches left so he still might show me.

He has done plenty mind, just edging my bets, just not enough considering the circumstances he has around him to suggest he is this top quality manager he was built up to be.

I believe a real top class manager, one switched on to modern day Premiership and with the condition at Villa now, would have done better, much better.

Until we get such, I'm willing to accept O'Neill will get better but for now when I consider all the improvements going on about and around Villa Park, he remains as a coach the weakest link, as a manager he's not doing too bad.

Not that he hasn't done some thing ok in my eyes as I edge my bets again.

I now applaud his introduction of Sutton, I love Carew, and Maloney and apart from his price, think Young a great prospect.

I even think Petrov has shown he is a decent player. Everyone who keeps looking back at my past quotes, seems to have missed me waxing lyrically at his performance at West Ham ooops.

In addition I think the stigma that has always been attached to the club under Ellis is slowly being eradicated, mainly thanks to O'Neill and I'd assume he's been a great help behind the scenes to Lerner and crew

If that is construed as me edging my bets so be it, for me I see it as my balanced opinion.

I also think as I said when he joined he has convinced me if he didn't think he was doing a good enough job he'd walk, I still believe that.

I have my doubts though that he has the insight to do what is needed to get quicker results though but then I'm not involved in the day to day decision making so for now I'll just accept I'm contradictory, don't know my own mind, am edging my bets while I take the easy view, criticising seemingly easier than sensible argument

I will continually refuse to adopt this jam tomorrow, everything will be fine philosophy, why because I don't like the easy sit on the fence options that require no proof.

As JC said and I noticed few took him to task, I'd like to see some victories and soon

[Trinity-Tom]

You see Malcolm, whilst I disagree with alot of that post, your sentiments and reasoning are clear. Many of your other posts have been diluted with sly digs and sweeping statements which don't make clear what the reason for your position is. And BTW, I think it is alot easier to blame the manager for our position than to give him time, or as you put it "sit on the fence".

[pablopicasso]

As JC said and I noticed few took him to task, I'd like to see some victories and soon

we all want some victories...

[Jon]

As JC said and I noticed few took him to task, I'd like to see some victories and soon

we all want some victories...

classic

yes, we really should have come down a lot harder on JC for wanting to see us win some more games .....

[blandy]

I will continually refuse to adopt this jam tomorrow, everything will be fine philosophy, why because I don't like the easy sit on the fence options that require no proof.

Equally, there's no proof that things won't be fine tomorrow. Why are people who think things might improve "fence sitting"? Surely some people are hopeful, based on what they see and some fearful based on how they see things.

Neither is right or wrong, it's just a "feeling" each person will have.

Some people's hope for improvement comes through in their style of posting, and some people's concern that things might not get better comes through in their style of writing.

Both are entirely fair.

I have as much trouble with "everything will be brilliant, we'll win the league next year, just, er, because we will and MO'N is brilliant" as I do with "everything is going wrong, MO'N is making a complete mess of it"

Neither view stands up to scrutiny whatsoever.

As JC said and I noticed few took him to task, I'd like to see some victories and soon

We all would. We all always will. We're all Villa fans.

Frankly I have no idea whether we will do great, or carry on struggling. But I do know that now the whole club, including the vast, vast majority of the fans are for once united in trying to bring about improvement. Positivity has replaced the frustration and despair of the previous regime. It's a long time since that was the case. And as Pete Bosworth said, it's great.

WE have a much better chance of improvement because everybody not only genuinely wants it, but because they are genuinely acting upon that aim. Whether it be fans supporting at matches, the baord providing money and facilities or players and manager doing the best they can.

In some games it hasn't been enough, and that'll be the case for a good while, but lessons are being given, experience gained and if they are taken on board, I'd guess we'll be fine.

Big changes are always disruptive and unsettling, it's when the dust has died down, that you can then get on with rebuilding. Once the rebuilding is done, then you can say "That's better" or "Oh, damn".

work still in progress, methinks.

[OutByEaster?]

Malc,

You have an opinion on the performance of the manager, and there are a number of people who agree with large elements of your assessments, Mr Cresswell included.

The difference between the reactions you recieve I think is that, as you have pointed out, you feel that a number of people elevated Mr O'Neill to a false position when he arrived, painting him as the messiah and the worlds greatest coach, a position you've always disagreed with.

It also seems to be your starting point in your judgement of the manager.

In one breath you seem to be saying "People think MON is the messiah and I don't agree." and in the next "The level of performance of this manager doesn't match his status as messiah, therefore he is bad."

Mr Cresswell gave his opinion on MON because he wants us to win more games, you seem to give us yours in order to prove that you are right.

[Grunthos]

You see Malcolm, whilst I disagree with alot of that post, your sentiments and reasoning are clear. Many of your other posts have been diluted with sly digs and sweeping statements which don't make clear what the reason for your position is.

Yes, much of the disagreement around here appears to be based on poor rhetoric (on the part of many posters, not just Malcolm).

I've not got the time or inclination to delve through the internet to find quotes on managers who have had similar quotes and then ruined a club, but I'm sure from Villa memories many remember all those who backed, Taylor, Turner, McNeil, with much the same exhortations most of you are above.

Nor should you. No one is asking you to, because we are all aware that many managers start off poorly because they are poor managers. Most of those gentlemen haven't won trophies and haven't achieved success with previous clubs, either.

Have you ever considered taking any argument in the spirit in which it is offered, rather than reading it in the least charitable light and then attacking it on that basis? My sole point was that you were overreaching (again, rhetorically) by insinuating that the team's poor record to date means we should all be attacking MON for incompetence. Most of us don't agree that the current gameday evidence actually indicates incompetence, but I can see where you're coming from in terms of watching the team perform on the pitch.

[TRO]

We could have taken 3 points really!!

How with 2 shots on target and one of those was a lame shot into Lehman's arms.

when you consider the missed header, what a chance, and the several times Arsenal got behind our defence, even in the last few minutes I find both your suggestions hysterical.

that against a side of reserves in a team winning their first match in ages on the back of losing in 3 cup competitions daft.

why should I give him 3 seasons to succeed as I said above everything is progressing on at a frantic pace, only in the coaching department is the club failing.

Why, and again I ask, what will be different next season ? Oh sorry O'Neill will have a full summer to do his work, yes that will make a difference I'm sure, he's had 29 matches and as I said above we started well and have gone backwards ever since

Maybe he will get up to speed, in 3 seasons, he should with the conditions he's working under, but again I ask why should we wait for him to catch up

..... your arguement is becoming more difficult to disagree with.

I think he will get it right, but i must admit i am starting worry as to when i am going to see any kind of improvement.

[villanfromluton]

I disagree, I think the improvement is there in the way we play football compared to a year ago.

Yes,, we are worried, but the fact remains that the club is a whole lot better off than at the same stage last season. I started rting Villa in the old third division, think we should get behind the players and manager rather than be quiet

[TRO]

Malcolm, I read your post on "news now" and even though I'm short of time tonight I had to come on VP and reply. I enjoyed last nights match and thought we could easily have taken three points with a bit of luck as we totally outplayed Arsenal in the second half. 40,000 fans were there last night and 42,500 will be there on sunday so Villa fans are now demonstrably much more optimistic, and then I read your post.

What a negative outlook you have! I've been a Villa fan for five decades and I've lived through the highs and the lows, but now I believe that we are entering the most exciting period in our history. Give Martin time Malcolm and judge him in a couple of seasons when his team plans have come to fruition. It will take time to reverse our long decline and put us back in the top six, but I'm positive we will get there and I'm also certain that Mon is the man to do it.

.....I wished i could have enjoyed it..... what i saw was a bunch of players "shadow boxing" just going through the motions with no belief in their bellies at all.

2 in 19 is becoming an albatross.

[TRO]

I disagree, I think the improvement is there in the way we play football compared to a year ago.

Yes,, we are worried, but the fact remains that the club is a whole lot better off than at the same stage last season. I started rting Villa in the old third division, think we should get behind the players and manager rather than be quiet

... i am not talking about the club ...... i am talking about the team and the technical side of the players abilities.

like not dealing with set pieces properly, front & back

like Gabby not having a clue how to use his blistering pace to full advantage, because his positional play and first touch is not premiership quality.

Like the two centre midfield players drifting through a game ("like a little lost boy on the beach looking for his dad" )picking up nobody.

Players coming out against top half teams with absolutely no belief whatsoever that they are going to get something.

.....i could go on and 2 wins from 19 don't lie........bad luck..... give me a break

[carlitobrigante]

It took a while for Bobby Robson to establish himself at Ipswich. His first two seasons were a case of staying up.

In January 1975, Clough made a quick return to management with Nottingham Forest, who at the time were a Second Division side. A year later he was joined by his old assistant Taylor. They transformed the club's fortunes and the first success at the club came in Clough's second full season (1976-77) when they won promotion to the First Division.

Revie was made player-manager in March 1961 at Leeds. Although his tenure didn't get off to a flying start...

Herrera rejoined Stade Français for a third time now as manager. After three seasons with no trophies collected, the club's president opted to sell the franchise. Herrera moved to Spain, where he spent the next six years in minor stints with Real Valladolid, Atlético Madrid, CD Málaga, Deportivo de La Coruña and Sevilla FC, before entering a two year tenure with Lisbon side CF Os Belenenses. Later returning to Spain, he managed giants FC Barcelona, but several problems, including disagreements between him and star player Ladislao Kubala obliged him to leave the club in 1960.

Rijkaard had a disappointing start at Barcelona that saw some sections of the club's fans call for his resignation, and he drew flack from the media when the team lost to Real Madrid in December 2003. Rijkaard's resilience won through and from 2004 onwards, he achieved a massive turnaround, as the team went from strength to strength.

[benitez's] first season in charge of Liverpool was as inconsistent as it was glorious. The Reds' stuttering form in the Premiership was offset by progress in the Champions League. Liverpool would confound the critics in going on to lift the trophy for the fifth time... Benitez's men put in an inept first half display, trailing 3-0 atthe break - a scoreline which was kind to the Premiership team. The manager then made up for his error in team selection by bringing on Dietmar Hamann in place of Steve Finnan to great effect.

Ferguson's intention to leave an Old Trafford legacy got of to a slow start as his attempts to rescue United from the troubled state in which Ron Atkinson had left the club faltered. Ferguson initially appeared to have left his success in Scotland and after three years in the job, despite finishing second behind Liverpool in 1988, chants of 'Fergie out' could be heard emanating from the Old Trafford terraces. But behind the scenes Ferguson was rebuilding the club in minute detail. He had revamped the youth system, a move that would pay huge dividends a few years down the line, and he had stamped out the drinking culture at Old Trafford by shipping out many of the crowd's favourites.

(selections from Soccernet and Wikipedia, for convenience)

We keep trying to get across the idea, but apparently you're unwilling to receive it. A losing record and a difficult stretch in the first managerial year is not proof, nor even necessarily a strong indication, that the manager is incompetent or mediocre or limited or handicapped or whatever. It is no more reasonable to ignore the existing limitations on O'Neill's tenure to date (the transfer window, the revamping of club staff, the middling-at-best talent on hand to start with) than it is to ignore the problems we are seeing on the pitch (Agbonlahor, set piece defending, inconsistency).

Sorry, Malcolm, but your view is unjustifiably negative. The rest of us will continue to wait until we have clearer signs, instead of giving up on this manager and this board so quickly.

what a post, this sums up the majoritys feelings aboslutely 100%..

its not that we dont think mons made mistakes, its just most of us are willing to give the man a chance and havent given up on so easily..

(oh and yes we didnt have many shots on goal against le arse, and yes they have lost in 3 comps, however they werent played off the park in long spells in any of them games like they were at the villa, yes even there reserves as you put it)

[OklahomaVilla]

How will next season be different?

...well, we'll probably buy a few more decent players in the summer as a result of the fantastic new supportive Board we have...

The Manager and players will have had a full pre-season to work on things

The optimism around the whole club will continue to grow (despite a small minority of people who continue to resist getting on board with this feeling - you should try it you know)

Great young prospects such as Gabby, Young, Moore, Cahill, Ridge, Davis, Osbourne etc. will be a little older and surrounded by better players to learn from

Gareth Barry continues to get better

Bouma appears to be finally settling in and showing his international class

etc. etc. etc.