Popular Post HalfTimePost Posted July 12, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) There's a few articles about on this lately, not all of them about Villa but some quotes have come out over night about us too. Basically the discussion is about the EPPP rules. Rather than have a looooong post explaining them, I've put one in the Spoiler tag for those that dont understand them: English Academies are split into four Categories, depending on: the quality of the academies facilities, the amount of contact time players of that academy receive per week And the amount of investment the Academy receives per annum. Category 1 The top level category will require clubs to have an approximate budget of £2.325m. Have a full time staff of at least 18. Provide at least 5 hours contact time with players each week. The current 90 minute travel rule will not apply. Category 2 Clubs that cannot meet the required budget requirements and staff levels demanded by Category 1, but still have an indoor training facility will most likely fall into this category. They will spend less time coaching players each week. Will be allowed to take players from age 4 and sign players from the age of 9. Will require an estimated budget of £969k The current 90 minute travel rule will not apply. Category 3 Clubs in this category will not be permitted to coach youngsters until they are 11 Will require an estimated budget of £315k Category 4 Clubs in this category will be used to pick up youngsters that are late developers or have been released from other Academies or Centres of Excellence. Players will be 16 years of age or above. Will require an estimated budget of £100k Compensation Fees for each year of development Age 9 to 11 – £3000 for players registered at any club Age 12 to 16 – £12,500 for players registered at a Category 3 club Age 12 to 16 – £25,000 for players registered at a Category 2 club Age 12 to 16 – £40,000 for players registered at a Category 1 club Clubs like Us, Arsenal, Southampton have Category 1 Status. Meaning that we are some of the highest rated academies in England. We can go to a club and poach their youth under the premise of giving them a better development. For example, we poached Liam Prynn from Torquay for £50k, meaning he had likely had 4 years of development at Torquays Category 3 Academy. So, in one way, these rules can really help us. £50k is peanuts to sign the best players from the likes of League 1 / 2 clubs, and probably some Championship teams too. In fact, The FA would probably prefer us to do this because we are proven (as a Category 1 Academy) to give players the best development. However, it also means that because transfers between Category 1 clubs can also happen that the likes of Man U, Arsenal and Man City can come in, offer huge sums of money (relatively) to young players to the other Category 1 teams, like us and Southampton and get them for a MAXIMUM £200k, like what happened with Danny Crowley. So whilst we are one of the best Academies in England, we can give players the best training and development experience in the country, meaning from lower rated academies, we have the pick of the bunch. But because there is nothing to stop other Category 1 clubs poaching our talent we are missing out. Thats almost OK, as it's what happens in Football all the time. The problem is that there is a set maximum fee, we could quite literally bring through the next Messi and Ronaldo and lose both for £400k, less than we paid for Bowery, and have no leg to stand on in terms of wanting more compensation, or a chance to keep our player. In an article for the Guardian (Definitely worth a read), Bryan Jones Head of our Academy, essentially threatened that we will stop trying to develop young, british talent: "If the Premier League think we will produce English players and then lose them at the age of 16 – that's not happening," Jones says. "Aston Villa will now, if it doesn't change, start to go into Europe to get players to develop. We have already met with the manager and the board of directors and talked about that. My job is to produce players for Aston Villa, not for Arsenal to pinch them. What is the point in developing players for eight or nine years only to then lose them cheaply? That will kill the game and it will kill development." And Here's another article from the Guardian detailing Gary Neville's stance on Academies in the UK at the minute. Obviously one of the main issues is that there isn't enough English talent coming through, and what is coming through isn't good enough. From the initial Guardian article: Number of players eligible for the leagues national team Premier League: 189 Players, 3411 appearances La Liga: 332 Players, 6391 appearances Ligue 1: 320 players, 6274 appearances Bundesliga: 224 players, 4035 appearances Eligible players in the leagues top 4 Premier League: 29 Players (Disgusting) La Liga: 60 players Ligue 1: 70 Serie A: 52 Bundesliga: 52 So as it stands, as a country we aren't bringing through enough English talent, yet the clubs who do (Us, Spurs and West Ham the best for it last season) are having our youth picked off at 16 because they are talented. They are then spending years in the development league and on the bench when they should be playing football. To a point where our board and Academy heads have met to discuss essentially not bothering bringing through English talent any more. Obviously the best outcome for us would be to keep our Category 1 status but have a rule change where players can't move between Category 1 clubs before the age of 18, by which point they have signed a professional agreement and we can get a proper transfer value for them. But I can't see that happening, although it would be nice. but still would leave other clubs, for example, Crewe, in a position where we could nick their youth for a pittance, which could be the difference between a club surviving or going bust in the lower divisions Edited July 12, 2013 by HalfTimePost 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 this is a disgraceful move and if wasnt bad enough structure this EPPP will move English football back a further 20 years. some lower league clubs have already closed or planning to close their academies and youth teams because of it. Yeovil is one and think Wycombe is planning close theirs next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeVillan Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Have we lost a few young players lately? I don't really know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 Have we lost a few young players lately? I don't really know. Danny Crowley, 'The Next Wilshere', moved to Arsenal for a measly £200k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMushroom Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Thing is, the league is structured in a way so that it benefits the richer more successful clubs. The Premier league has only ever cared about cash, and until these richer clubs finally piss off and join a European super league then it will continue to be like this. Outside of Villa, I no longer have interest in others results, cant be arsed with the league table, and can no longer stand watching it on TV due to the constant milking of clubs like Manure. What im saying is, we should not be surprised that this is filtering down to the youth set ups and academies. I fully endorse Bryan Jones standpoint, and to be honest, the job he has done at Villa,if anyone knows whats needed then he does. Edited July 12, 2013 by MagicMushroom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 First I have heard about this and its sounds moronic. Not really a surprise given the corrupt buffoons that run the game and have, and continue to, ruin it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 its not called the Greed is Good league for nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 You see i keep saying the greed in the game will eventually & is already destroying it.. It is becoming farcical really..the greedy glutinous clubs at the top Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U etc are just ruining the game by creating such an unlevel playing field & as is the case here sucking up all the best young players before they have even had chance to develop properly & then not letting them finish their development by them not getting enough chances to play in the 1st team. A shocking state of affairs & its frankly a disgrace that this has not been dealt with. They moan at the state of the pathetic England team & then allow this to go on at grass roots level... Unbelievable! Don't blame Villa at all if they stop wasting their time & money doing it. Why don't the FA just bring in a rule that every single decent player in the country is only allowed to sign for a Sky 4 team and be done with it. In fact why not just create a league of 4 teams who all play each other 20 times a season then they can all maybe realise that their is actually a point in the other 15 Premier League clubs being there. A wise old Chinese man once say: "Men do not desire to watch a strong man fight a weak one?!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMushroom Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 its not called the Greed is Good league for nothing Football has ceased to be a sport and become an entertainment program for sky, who then peddle the rights to the highest bidder. Honestly, its fast becoming a gimmick like Wrestling and the Harlem Globetrotters. And we fans are equally guilty since its us that give sky our subscriptions and pay the inflated prices at matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeVillan Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Have we lost a few young players lately? I don't really know. Danny Crowley, 'The Next Wilshere', moved to Arsenal for a measly £200k. Cheers mate, damn that sucks.. I think it's time that we just **** off producing English talent and just buy cheap talent where ever we can find it. its not called the Greed is Good league for nothing Football has ceased to be a sport and become an entertainment program for sky, who then peddle the rights to the highest bidder. Honestly, its fast becoming a gimmick like Wrestling and the Harlem Globetrotters. And we fans are equally guilty since its us that give sky our subscriptions and pay the inflated prices at matches. Well don't, it's the easiest thing in the world to stream matches, and in high quality to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMushroom Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Have we lost a few young players lately? I don't really know. Danny Crowley, 'The Next Wilshere', moved to Arsenal for a measly £200k. Cheers mate, damn that sucks.. I think it's time that we just **** off producing English talent and just buy cheap talent where ever we can find it. its not called the Greed is Good league for nothing Football has ceased to be a sport and become an entertainment program for sky, who then peddle the rights to the highest bidder. Honestly, its fast becoming a gimmick like Wrestling and the Harlem Globetrotters. And we fans are equally guilty since its us that give sky our subscriptions and pay the inflated prices at matches. Well don't, it's the easiest thing in the world to stream matches, and in high quality to. Must admit that when im not paying through my nose through the gates, its my first port of call. I have my sky box, but ive refused to pay them for two years so am restricted to free view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 We're not thr only ones to be stung by this, Albion have lost someone to Chelsea as well.. But then we've probably taken players from lower teams... The transfer fees do need to appearance based though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 shame he didnt add a line about englands selection policy extending to youth levels too very surprised about the 50% not being good enough comment, he must surely include our own bunch in that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 I would include our bunch in that too from an International level. We haven't really produced anyone good enough yet. Our best would be Gareth Barry, who could be attributed to other teams, and Gary Cahill. Neither of which are anywhere near good enough to be the difference between England and Spain/Germany. Thats not to say the next bunch aren't going to be good enough, Gardner, Grealish, Graham, Crowley are all very highly rated and will probably (hopefully) be the best bunch we have ever produced. However as much as I like them, none of these have done anything yet, Germany and Spain have players really pulling up trees at the age of Gardner/Graham. But I suppose thats always been our problem, successfully transferring these great youth talents into first team stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I would include our bunch in that too from an International level. We haven't really produced anyone good enough yet. Our best would be Gareth Barry, who could be attributed to other teams, and Gary Cahill. If could count him Thomas Hitzlsperger 50 caps for Germany would probably be best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I would include our bunch in that too from an International level. We haven't really produced anyone good enough yet. Our best would be Gareth Barry, who could be attributed to other teams, and Gary Cahill. Neither of which are anywhere near good enough to be the difference between England and Spain/Germany. Thats not to say the next bunch aren't going to be good enough, Gardner, Grealish, Graham, Crowley are all very highly rated and will probably (hopefully) be the best bunch we have ever produced. However as much as I like them, none of these have done anything yet, Germany and Spain have players really pulling up trees at the age of Gardner/Graham. But I suppose thats always been our problem, successfully transferring these great youth talents into first team stars. Or perhaps they just weren't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) its not called the Greed is Good league for nothing Football has ceased to be a sport and become an entertainment program for sky, who then peddle the rights to the highest bidder. Honestly, its fast becoming a gimmick like Wrestling and the Harlem Globetrotters. And we fans are equally guilty since its us that give sky our subscriptions and pay the inflated prices at matches.Never have I seen modern football summed up so brilliantly in so few words! Bravo. Edited July 12, 2013 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBM Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 cahill and barry arent even ours, we poached them at 16, barry came from brighton, along with michael standing our own nearest achievements are the likes of agbonlahor, vassell, luke and stefan moore, and even lee hendrie... ye, shocking isnt it! i agree there should be more control to stop the bore 4 from poaching lads so their developments can be finished at the club they started at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeVillan Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Have we lost a few young players lately? I don't really know. Danny Crowley, 'The Next Wilshere', moved to Arsenal for a measly £200k. Cheers, I've just read on another forum that he's bossing an U21 game even though he's 15, picking up two assists. Kinda makes me feel sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyPowers Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I find it bizarre that players are so keen to leave clubs at 13/14/15. Why exactly? They're not paid are they? What are they given exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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