villaajax Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Well you certainly do put forward an eloquent argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post peterms Posted May 7, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted May 7, 2013 The technique of starting a sentence with "The reality is..." followed by a stream of eyewatering bollocks is a speciality of Iain Duncan Smith. But the content inclines a little more towards Nigel Falange. Is it a parody account, combining the highlights of both great thinkers? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 to my mind the economics of it doesn't really come into it, until we have a ceiling in mind. Its the natural resource in the country that is the problem. Water food and fuel being the prime concerns. Thats not to say immigration is a bad thing, its just you have to look at what the land can provide. I liken it to Villa selling 100,000 tickets for the Chelsea game. Yes it would be good for the finances of the club, but could Villa Park hold them all. And its no good believing that all of the UK is easily inhabitable, its not. Vast tracts of Scotland and Wales are empty, they are so for a reason, its difficult to build or farm the land. It took Gordon Brown about 18 months to work out whether we should join the Euro, quite rightly too. It shouldn't take that long to work out A: the optimum and B: the ceiling. for the size of the population Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 If you want to be bombed by islam extremists then vote labour Were you a candidate for Smethwick in the 1964 general election? The only doughnuts stupid enough to vote for labour are immigrants and lefties without an active brain cell. The consequences of labour getting back in (to fist the country up the arse some more) will be devastating. Well we're not doing too well now are we! Labour are far from a left wing party anyway. In fact New Labour were more right than left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 7, 2013 Author Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2013 Well we're not doing too well now are we! Labour are far from a left wing party anyway. In fact New Labour were more right than left.C'mon, leave him alone, analysis of facts is hardly a forte of his, he can't help it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 This paper assesses the fiscal consequences of migration to the UK from the Central and Eastern European countries that joined the EU in May 2004 (A8 countries). We show that A8 immigrants who arrived after EU enlargement in 2004, and who have at least one year of residence – and are therefore legally eligible to claim benefits - are 60% less likely than natives to receive state benefits or tax credits, and 58% less likely to live in social housing. Even if A8 immigrants had the samedemographic characteristics of natives, they would stillbe 13% less likely to receive benefits and 28% less likely to live in social housing. We thencompare the net fiscal contribution of A8 immigrants with that of individuals born in the UK,and find that in each fiscal year since enlargement in 2004, A8 immigrants made a positivecontribution to public finance despite the fact that the UK has been running a budget deficitover the last years. This is because they have a higher labour force participation rate, payproportionately more in indirect taxes, and make much lower use of benefits and publicservices. Most of that is hardly surprising is it? Of course economic migrants are less likely to claim benefits, they're coming for work and are therefore (I assume) being compared against a native population that includes pensioners etc, who of course will have a higher proportion of benefits claimants amongst them. Also the effect of such a huge and rapid influx of migrants could mean that the number of jobs available for the native population are reduced. I don't think anybody sensible really thinks that there aren't benefits from immigration, but in my opinion the unplanned and unregulated influx of hundreds of thousands of people all at once, into mainly one area of the country causes problems that outweigh the benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 but in my opinion the unplanned and unregulated influx of hundreds of thousands of people all at once, into mainly one area of the country causes problems that outweigh the benefits. Yes I 100% agree with you, however you may be asked to produce the facts to support this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) Truthfully Edited May 7, 2013 by PaulC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 C'mon, leave him alone, analysis of facts is hardly a forte of his, he can't help itsorry, truthfully I was not expecting so many smart people on a football forum, far smarter than the cricket forum I run. Mind you most of them have far right views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 The technique of starting a sentence with "The reality is..." followed by a stream of eyewatering bollocks is a speciality of Iain Duncan Smith. But the content inclines a little more towards Nigel Falange. Don't usually post in this thread but, that got me really angry. I don't know why people persist with that myth when a glance at just about any recent immigrant (in any developed country) will suggest that the reality is in fact, quite the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Most of that is hardly surprising is it? No, I agree, it's not. But many people believe otherwise, including large parts of the media, to the extent that the government is seriously contemplating taking actions which will hurt us economically in order to appease this view. If the debate could move on from "they're a drain on the country and are just here to live off benefits" to "there may be an economic benefit, but we need to manage any local negative effects better", that would be an enormous step forward. We seem to be retreating further away from such a position, in the last few weeks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Most of that is hardly surprising is it? No, I agree, it's not. But many people believe otherwise, including large parts of the media, to the extent that the government is seriously contemplating taking actions which will hurt us economically in order to appease this view. If the debate could move on from "they're a drain on the country and are just here to live off benefits" to "there may be an economic benefit, but we need to manage any local negative effects better", that would be an enormous step forward. We seem to be retreating further away from such a position, in the last few weeks. Can't argue with any of that, so I'll tip my cap and bid you good day sir. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel1Avfc Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Well we're not doing too well now are we! Labour are far from a left wing party anyway. In fact New Labour were more right than left. C'mon, leave him alone, analysis of facts is hardly a forte of his, he can't help it coming from an american lefty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 7, 2013 Author Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2013 Well we're not doing too well now are we! Labour are far from a left wing party anyway. In fact New Labour were more right than left.C'mon, leave him alone, analysis of facts is hardly a forte of his, he can't help itcoming from an american leftyHahaha and thus proving my point entirely 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Like the Roman, Daniel1Avfc seems to see the River Tiber foaming with much blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Like the Roman, Daniel1Avfc seems to see the River Tiber foaming with much blood. And I see Daniel1Avfc's mouth foaming with much spittle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 ......see, now I'm thinking he's trolling because surely, surely...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 ......see, now I'm thinking he's trolling because surely, surely...... Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel1Avfc Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Well we're not doing too well now are we! Labour are far from a left wing party anyway. In fact New Labour were more right than left. C'mon, leave him alone, analysis of facts is hardly a forte of his, he can't help it coming from an american lefty Hahaha and thus proving my point entirely 38k posts says it all really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) but in my opinion the unplanned and unregulated influx of hundreds of thousands of people all at once, into mainly one area of the country causes problems that outweigh the benefits. Yes I 100% agree with you, however you may be asked to produce the facts to support this. Maintaining an opinion in the face of data to the contrary sounds like some sort of leap of faith to me. p.s. And having seen some more of the data on low end wage impact (from those links in the 'left wing' article ) then the original study that I saw on A8 migration may not have told enough of the tale (in that these other studies seemed to show more of a negative effect upon wages than that first one). Edited May 7, 2013 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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