jacketspuds Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 "Which clubs have spent less than us this pre-season?". I think the question may be how many of the clubs AndyM3000 has listed will have spent less net than us at the end of the window Pilchard. It is likely to be something below 9 if we make no more signings or any signing we might make is say £4m or below. They say no news is good news but so late into the window I think it may not be. I can see where you are coming from but I would imagine there is a lot going on behind the scenes that is probably dependent on lots of other clubs signing their targets too. Take Arsenal for example, there is very little coming out of that club regarding transfers but there is a strong chance that they will sign 3/4 players by the time the window shuts tomorrow. There is also the fact that our club is notoriously secretive when it comes to transfers. I will only believe that we won't be signing any more players once the transfer window is closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 The worrying thing is that we couldn't keep players when competing for 6th, how will we be able to compete - for example - when bigger spenders like Southampton and Cardiff might like the look of Lowton for 12m - why would they stay with us when we are just a breeding ground for footballers? When do we stop looking at the sums in each bracket - as Doug was criticised for - and actually become a football club again? At the end of this season we WILL have teams sniffing around Westwood, Lowton and Benteke. Do we sell them and buy cheap - ready to have them hand picked again, once they are ripe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 The worrying thing is that we couldn't keep players when competing for 6th, how will we be able to compete - for example - when bigger spenders like Southampton and Cardiff might like the look of Lowton for 12m - why would they stay with us when we are just a breeding ground for footballers? When do we stop looking at the sums in each bracket - as Doug was criticised for - and actually become a football club again? At the end of this season we WILL have teams sniffing around Westwood, Lowton and Benteke. Do we sell them and buy cheap - ready to have them hand picked again, once they are ripe? What makes you think bigger spenders like Southampton and Cardiff will finish higher than us or even look like a better option for somebody like Lowton? Look what happened to QPR. Just because a club spends more than us it doesn't mean they're better than us or will finish higher than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 (edited) The worrying thing is that we couldn't keep players when competing for 6th, how will we be able to compete - for example - when bigger spenders like Southampton and Cardiff might like the look of Lowton for 12m - why would they stay with us when we are just a breeding ground for footballers? When do we stop looking at the sums in each bracket - as Doug was criticised for - and actually become a football club again? At the end of this season we WILL have teams sniffing around Westwood, Lowton and Benteke. Do we sell them and buy cheap - ready to have them hand picked again, once they are ripe? What makes you think bigger spenders like Southampton and Cardiff will finish higher than us or even look like a better option for somebody like Lowton? Look what happened to QPR. Just because a club spends more than us it doesn't mean they're better than us or will finish higher than us. I didn't say they would finish above us - but it is not unlikely. The point is, they are willing to go out and spend the £10m/£12m on a player - if they want one of ours, they will bid and it wouldn't be unlikely for them to move to a team that is aiming to finish as high as they can in the football table, instead of the accounts table. You say look what happened to QPR, this is one tiny example, a team managed by people who threw money at anything they could - thinking it meant success. It doesn't have to be this way, why does every bloody bargain have to be £2m? Why does every potential failure have to be £8m? My mate (A VIlla fan down here) said to me a few months back "We are the new Wigan" and I brushed it off, laughed at him. But we are, aren't we? Edited September 1, 2013 by dodgyknees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradarmstrong_ Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 If any of our players leave it will be to bigger clubs than the likes of Cardiff or Southampton. Hardly ambitious to move to a team that could hypothetically finish 2 or 3 places higher than you in the league is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 You're obsessed with this "new Wigan" thing. That's twice you've said it now that I've noticed. We're nothing like **** Wigan. We just happen to be reigning it in for a year or two. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 The worrying thing is that we couldn't keep players when competing for 6th, how will we be able to compete - for example - when bigger spenders like Southampton and Cardiff might like the look of Lowton for 12m - why would they stay with us when we are just a breeding ground for footballers? When do we stop looking at the sums in each bracket - as Doug was criticised for - and actually become a football club again? At the end of this season we WILL have teams sniffing around Westwood, Lowton and Benteke. Do we sell them and buy cheap - ready to have them hand picked again, once they are ripe? What makes you think bigger spenders like Southampton and Cardiff will finish higher than us or even look like a better option for somebody like Lowton? Look what happened to QPR. Just because a club spends more than us it doesn't mean they're better than us or will finish higher than us. I didn't say they would finish above us - but it is not unlikely. The point is, they are willing to go out and spend the £10m/£12m on a player - if they want one of ours, they will bid and it wouldn't be unlikely for them to move to a team that is aiming to finish as high as they can in the football table, instead of the accounts table. You say look what happened to QPR, this is one tiny example, a team managed by people who threw money at anything they could - thinking it meant success. It doesn't have to be this way, why does every bloody bargain have to be £2m? Why does every potential failure have to be £8m? My mate (A VIlla fan down here) said to me a few months back "We are the new Wigan" and I brushed it off, laughed at him. But we are, aren't we? I think we will spend £10m+ on quality/gifted players if we need to, but probably from January or next Summer onwards. Lambert has had to pretty much build a completely new squad since he arrived and we haven't managed to ship out everybody we'd have liked to just yet. I'm happy with Lambert's signings and I understand the reasoning for buying cheaper than the teams around us is because of the amount of players he has needed to bring in. I don't think signing a player over say, £8m, will become a failure but I also don't think signing a player for such a price will make them an instant success. As for selling players like Lowton and Westwood to the teams around us, such as Cardiff or Southampton, why would we? Faulkner has made some mistakes in the past but I don't think he is an idiot and he wouldn't undermine Lambert in such a way. We didn't sell Benteke this Summer after he had put in a transfer request and Spuds were quite blatantly waiting in the wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 "what you should be asking is how many clubs have bought better than us". I agree that we have bought very well but just think what a difference backing Lambo with the money for another one or even 2 signings might have on where we end up at the end of this season villa4europe. I do not think another £4m - £8m would be unreasonable for Lambo to expect to get if he has identified players given his track record in the market. I hope jacketspuds is right and the backing will be there and lead to a signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I didn't say they would finish above us - but it is not unlikely. The point is, they are willing to go out and spend the £10m/£12m on a player - if they want one of ours, they will bid and it wouldn't be unlikely for them to move to a team that is aiming to finish as high as they can in the football table, instead of the accounts table. And then three years later those teams will be managed by Alex McLeish and fighting relegation, wishing their spending hadn't been completely unsustainable without Champions League football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 The worrying thing is that we couldn't keep players when competing for 6th, how will we be able to compete - for example - when bigger spenders like Southampton and Cardiff might like the look of Lowton for 12m - why would they stay with us when we are just a breeding ground for footballers? When do we stop looking at the sums in each bracket - as Doug was criticised for - and actually become a football club again? At the end of this season we WILL have teams sniffing around Westwood, Lowton and Benteke. Do we sell them and buy cheap - ready to have them hand picked again, once they are ripe? What makes you think bigger spenders like Southampton and Cardiff will finish higher than us or even look like a better option for somebody like Lowton? Look what happened to QPR. Just because a club spends more than us it doesn't mean they're better than us or will finish higher than us. I didn't say they would finish above us - but it is not unlikely. The point is, they are willing to go out and spend the £10m/£12m on a player - if they want one of ours, they will bid and it wouldn't be unlikely for them to move to a team that is aiming to finish as high as they can in the football table, instead of the accounts table. You say look what happened to QPR, this is one tiny example, a team managed by people who threw money at anything they could - thinking it meant success. It doesn't have to be this way, why does every bloody bargain have to be £2m? Why does every potential failure have to be £8m? My mate (A VIlla fan down here) said to me a few months back "We are the new Wigan" and I brushed it off, laughed at him. But we are, aren't we? I think we will spend £10m+ on quality/gifted players if we need to, but probably from January or next Summer onwards. Lambert has had to pretty much build a completely new squad since he arrived and we haven't managed to ship out everybody we'd have liked to just yet. I'm happy with Lambert's signings and I understand the reasoning for buying cheaper than the teams around us is because of the amount of players he has needed to bring in. I don't think signing a player over say, £8m, will become a failure but I also don't think signing a player for such a price will make them an instant success. As for selling players like Lowton and Westwood to the teams around us, such as Cardiff or Southampton, why would we? Faulkner has made some mistakes in the past but I don't think he is an idiot and he wouldn't undermine Lambert in such a way. We didn't sell Benteke this Summer after he had put in a transfer request and Spuds were quite blatantly waiting in the wings. Don't get me wrong, we have done some good business, but as we saw - these players will likely not make an impact until the end of this season or the beginning of next, So we are looking at them coming good, just as we sell off Lowton, Westwood and Benteke - which means we lose the balance and start again. We are going to be forever starting again - because like I have said - and like we have seen in 2011, 2012, 2013 - players have ambition which reaches further than doing well in the books. We will lose players, the books will be balanced and then we start again - better books - but how far could we have to go to catch up with teams around us / above us if we want to compete? Are you telling me you are happy to sit in mid table and be Fulham and West Brom? To compete we will have to spend money, to make sure we keep the players we have and to build on the positives we already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 (edited) I think we managed to get Okore for an extremely good price, I genuinely thought he would have cost teams around £8m if not more, probably would've been the case if he had played for Copenhagen. Like I said, I think we'll buy better outright quality starting from either January or next Summer, I'm happy for us to aim for mid-table this season based on what we saw under McLeish and the relegation scrap last season. Lambert has his foundations laid down now, I can pretty much guarantee that we won't be needing to buy 6+ players next Summer which means he will be able to spend more on any players he does need. Edited September 1, 2013 by samjp26 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I didn't say they would finish above us - but it is not unlikely. The point is, they are willing to go out and spend the £10m/£12m on a player - if they want one of ours, they will bid and it wouldn't be unlikely for them to move to a team that is aiming to finish as high as they can in the football table, instead of the accounts table. And then three years later those teams will be managed by Alex McLeish and fighting relegation, wishing their spending hadn't been completely unsustainable without Champions League football. Guesswork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 One thing I really want to happen is for Lambert to get a new contract in place by Christmas. I'd hate for us to have to start building again from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I think we should wait to see what happens this season before giving Lambert a new contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 One thing I really want to happen is for Lambert to get a new contract in place by Christmas. I'd hate for us to have to start building again from scratch. Agree. This is very very important. If we can do something to keep the key players too - Guzan (no issues here), Okore (at least 2 seasons, so ok so far), but we also need to keep Lowton, Westwood and Benteke before they start thinking of competing higher up the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I didn't say they would finish above us - but it is not unlikely. The point is, they are willing to go out and spend the £10m/£12m on a player - if they want one of ours, they will bid and it wouldn't be unlikely for them to move to a team that is aiming to finish as high as they can in the football table, instead of the accounts table. And then three years later those teams will be managed by Alex McLeish and fighting relegation, wishing their spending hadn't been completely unsustainable without Champions League football. Guesswork. So is everything you are talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwingduck Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Anyone else heard the Kagawa on loan rumours? With Fellaini coming in (supposedly) he has asked to be loaned out to play first team football in a World Cup year. When you think about it, it sort of seems plausible. What's his wage though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I didn't say they would finish above us - but it is not unlikely. The point is, they are willing to go out and spend the £10m/£12m on a player - if they want one of ours, they will bid and it wouldn't be unlikely for them to move to a team that is aiming to finish as high as they can in the football table, instead of the accounts table. And then three years later those teams will be managed by Alex McLeish and fighting relegation, wishing their spending hadn't been completely unsustainable without Champions League football. Guesswork. So is everything you are talking about Big difference from you suggesting teams are spending unsustainable money (no proof), to be then managed by McLeish, than me saying we need to be ambitious to keep our own players. Idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 One thing I really want to happen is for Lambert to get a new contract in place by Christmas. I'd hate for us to have to start building again from scratch. Agree. This is very very important. If we can do something to keep the key players too - Guzan (no issues here), Okore (at least 2 seasons, so ok so far), but we also need to keep Lowton, Westwood and Benteke before they start thinking of competing higher up the table. It's funny because although I understand people wanting some more expensive signings or signings that will bring some 'real quality' as such, the players you list totals to around £10m in transfer fees. Guzan - Free Okore - £3m Lowton - Less than £1m Westwood - Less than £1m Benteke - Around £5.5m Of course I don't want us to start from scratch again, having to blood players like we have with Lowton for example, but it goes to show that we've got some quality within our side and it has cost us pennies when compared to other clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Twitter talk pointing to Koo Ja-Cheol from Wolfsburg. Another play with one year remaining on his contract. HAHAHAHAHA. I've posted his name earlier. People really look at VT and make a bullshit tweet out of it. Fields of salt. i mentioned this guy a month ago on here. Hes a brilliant brilliant player. Zero chance of that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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