The Randy Lerner thread

[Big_John_10]

Pedantic but I'll roll with it.

Regardless of it being a message board, when you're told you're wrong for an opinion, it isn't a nice feeling. People should be allowed to post their positives about Lerner without being told they're wrong.

Haha do you do the hypocrisy thing on purpose?

Go and have a look at how you've responded to negative posts over the last 2 years and then read what you've just posted again.

[NurembergVillan]

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's the point? This just adds to the idea he gets defended because he's not Doug.

And you're just adding to the idea that he should be toasted because he's not Mansour bin Zayed al Nahyan.

Then you're not reading my point or just making it up. If you think my issue with Lerner is based solely on what he's spent then you're wrong.

What IS your issue then?

He took a punt on CL qualification, worked on the 5 year plan towards that (and it was fun - don't tell me you spent the four years under O'Neill worrying about what would happen next instead of enjoying the cup final and the win at Old Trafford and consistently besting Mourinho) and was scuppered by someone with more money coming in and beating him to the punch.

Based on that he realised he couldn't compete, has cut costs dramatically (and dangerously - a real negative and a horrible few years with it) and seemingly prepared us for sale to someone who gives us a better chance of competing. Like he promised he would at the outset.

Has it all been perfect? No. Has it all been absolute shit? No. There have been highs and lows. That's football.

You seem to dismiss things very easily.

I loved the MON years. I don't know if my posts are still around this long but I doubt there were many posters more positive about the club than myself. I didn't worry about the future and enjoyed it as I thought our owner knew what he was doing. But like my example with leeds, while its good at the time it doesn't mean its reflected upon fondly and just shrugged off when it leads to struggles.

He spent with no clear plan and then made things much worse with his managerial decisions, especially McLeish who is probably the worst appointment any premiership club has made.

He then cut costs making the team worse and worse till it reached a point where current season ticket holders saw us lose more games than any other set of fans in the history of the club. He stayed away from the club and failed to communicate with fans while happily gambling with our premiership survival. Have a look at the players we signed during the last 3 January windows.

He's made sure his losses aren't too bad while we, the fans, have suffered. You've no problem with that, I have.

Either way it seems he'll soon be gone. A failure in another sport.

So basically what I said then, but using different words

In hindsight, would you have swapped the four years of excitement followed by four years of struggle for eight years of mediocrity - finishing 10th to 12th every season and getting into the last 16 of cup competitions?

Good question and hard to answer.

I bloody loved those first 4 years, the excitement and the hope was something I'd never experienced as a villa fan before.

I guess if pushed I'd maybe lean towards 8 mediocre years before being taken over. Because the last few years have nearly drained me of my enjoyment of being a villa fan.

 

That wasn't an option though, really.  Under Ellis we were going financially belly-up (Mark Kinsella, Oyvind Leonhardsen and we couldn't afford to but Eirik Bakke) and heading for relegation.  Possibly in worse nick than we are now.

 

The other contenders when Randy bought us included Sven-Goran Erikkson's agent and Nicholas Padfield QC (who?!).  I'd take four years of awesomeness followed by what we've had every time.  That, for me at least, is what football is about.  Emotions and adrenaline.

 

I'll take that over being Newcastle...

[StefanAVFC]

 

Pedantic but I'll roll with it.

Regardless of it being a message board, when you're told you're wrong for an opinion, it isn't a nice feeling. People should be allowed to post their positives about Lerner without being told they're wrong.

Haha do you do the hypocrisy thing on purpose?

Go and have a look at how you've responded to negative posts over the last 2 years and then read what you've just posted again.

 

 

And yet again you haven't addressed a single thing I've posted. All evening in fact. You've been more focused on either provoking a reaction or shouting down anybody who disagrees with you.

 

I can't wait until we get a new owner so this nonsense can stop.

[Big_John_10]

That wasn't an option though, really

Maybe but to be fair you did offer me that as an option in that scenario.

[OutByEaster?]

 

You seem to dismiss things very easily.

I loved the MON years. I don't know if my posts are still around this long but I doubt there were many posters more positive about the club than myself. I didn't worry about the future and enjoyed it as I thought our owner knew what he was doing. But like my example with leeds, while its good at the time it doesn't mean its reflected upon fondly and just shrugged off when it leads to struggles.

He spent with no clear plan and then made things much worse with his managerial decisions, especially McLeish who is probably the worst appointment any premiership club has made.

He then cut costs making the team worse and worse till it reached a point where current season ticket holders saw us lose more games than any other set of fans in the history of the club. He stayed away from the club and failed to communicate with fans while happily gambling with our premiership survival. Have a look at the players we signed during the last 3 January windows.

He's made sure his losses aren't too bad while we, the fans, have suffered. You've no problem with that, I have.

Either way it seems he'll soon be gone. A failure in another sport.

 

I'll back you up on that, you were right behind the club in those early years of Lerner.

 

I think if anything though, the Leeds example is what he didn't do - he stopped us reaching that point. We're complaining about what happened in order for us not to be Leeds.

 

In terms of cutting costs, his own contribution to the club each year hasn't actually changed much, he's still putting in more or less that £20m a year - we're just getting less and less from it as we're not generating an income that can support our ambitions and mostly because £20m now isn't worth anything like as much to a football club as it was 8 years ago.

 

When Blackburn won the league - they spent less than £20m - when Doug left, our total wage bill wasn't much more than that - it's six times that now, Man City's is more than eleven times that amount.

 

Lerner came in with the idea that for £20m a year he could have a crack at the Champions league and make the club bigger - we had a go at that and failed - at the end of that first gamble, Lerner looked up and things were five or six times more expensive than when he arrived, he got an expensive divorce and global markets in everything but footballers wages collapsed - he couldn't afford to go again.

 

Has he made sure his losses aren't too bad? I don't know - you seem very sure - how is it you think he's done that?

[Big_John_10]

Has he made sure his losses aren't too bad? I don't know - you seem very sure - how is it you think he's done that?

Massively cutting the wage bill, limiting investment while waiting for a buyer and asking for a large sale price.

[StefanAVFC]

Yet the wage bill has mysteriously increased.

[Big_John_10]

Yet the wage bill has mysteriously increased.

Then why have you used this to defend Lambert?

[OutByEaster?]

 

Has he made sure his losses aren't too bad? I don't know - you seem very sure - how is it you think he's done that?

Massively cutting the wage bill, limiting investment while waiting for a buyer and asking for a large sale price.

 

 

He hasn't cut the wage bill - and whilst he hasn't raised investment, he hasn't significantly cut it either. The job has outgrown him - I think maybe the only way he can make sure his losses aren't going to get worse it to get out quickly, which it looks like he might well be doing.

 

He's tried to make the club successful, had his gamble not come off, realised he couldn't afford to try again and after patching up some of the damage (to protect both his investment and the club) he's selling up - everything he told us he'd do when he arrived.

[Big_John_10]

and after patching up some of the damage

I think this is where I differ. I just can't shrug off the last 4 years as patching up the damage.

He could have patched up the damage after MON but instead made it worse and then continued to make it worse. 4 consecutive relegation battles, the last 2 and potentially this one could see less points than Doug's final year. Club record breaking lows and just abysmal home form. For me that's not patching up the damage.

[thetrees]

Has he made sure his losses aren't too bad? I don't know - you seem very sure - how is it you think he's done that?

Massively cutting the wage bill, limiting investment while waiting for a buyer and asking for a large sale price.

So basically, by not throwing another £100m after the £250m the guy has already burned, he has ensured that 'his losses aren't too bad'

A more childish poster would be 'haha-ing' at that.

[Big_John_10]

Has he made sure his losses aren't too bad? I don't know - you seem very sure - how is it you think he's done that?

Massively cutting the wage bill, limiting investment while waiting for a buyer and asking for a large sale price.

So basically, by not throwing another £100m after the £250m the guy has already burned, he has ensured that 'his losses aren't too bad'

A more childish poster would be 'haha-ing' at that.

Did I say £100 million. Look at what Mr Lerner spent the last 3 January windows when the manager was crying out for help.

[LondonLax]

 

 

 

Has he made sure his losses aren't too bad? I don't know - you seem very sure - how is it you think he's done that?

Massively cutting the wage bill, limiting investment while waiting for a buyer and asking for a large sale price.

So basically, by not throwing another £100m after the £250m the guy has already burned, he has ensured that 'his losses aren't too bad'

A more childish poster would be 'haha-ing' at that.

Did I say £100 million. Look at what Mr Lerner spent the last 3 January windows when the manager was crying out for help.

 

He has still spent millions in the last 4 years on the club. We have run at a loss every year he has been here and he has given us money out of his own pocket to make up the difference. 

 

You are just demanding that he gave us more each January because the millions he lost on us isn't enough. 

[OutByEaster?]

 

and after patching up some of the damage

I think this is where I differ. I just can't shrug off the last 4 years as patching up the damage.

He could have patched up the damage after MON but instead made it worse and then continued to make it worse. 4 consecutive relegation battles, the last 2 and potentially this one could see less points than Doug's final year. Club record breaking lows and just abysmal home form. For me that's not patching up the damage.

 

 

Patching up the damage to business - the effect of that on the pitch was always going to be visible, but it's been amplified by poor decision making, much of it Lerner's. McLeish was a mistake, Bent was a mistake, we've made poor choices in a number of areas and made the process of getting the club straight more difficult and more extreme than it needed to be. 

 

It needed to be done, it's been done badly, but I think that it is now done - and I think it's something he wanted to do before selling up. I still believe there's a basic decency to Randy Lerner, a desire to do the right thing - not a lot of common sense, but good intention. It's not been pleasant, and it's not made watching the team enjoyable over the past few years, but I think it's been done for the right reasons. I can forgive that.

[thetrees]

Has he made sure his losses aren't too bad? I don't know - you seem very sure - how is it you think he's done that?

Massively cutting the wage bill, limiting investment while waiting for a buyer and asking for a large sale price.

So basically, by not throwing another £100m after the £250m the guy has already burned, he has ensured that 'his losses aren't too bad'

A more childish poster would be 'haha-ing' at that.

Did I say £100 million. Look at what Mr Lerner spent the last 3 January windows when the manager was crying out for help.

Now there's a first.

I never thought that I would see the day when you stood up for Alex McLeish

[StefanAVFC]

 

 

and after patching up some of the damage

I think this is where I differ. I just can't shrug off the last 4 years as patching up the damage.

He could have patched up the damage after MON but instead made it worse and then continued to make it worse. 4 consecutive relegation battles, the last 2 and potentially this one could see less points than Doug's final year. Club record breaking lows and just abysmal home form. For me that's not patching up the damage.

 

 

Patching up the damage to business - the effect of that on the pitch was always going to be visible, but it's been amplified by poor decision making, much of it Lerner's. McLeish was a mistake, Bent was a mistake, we've made poor choices in a number of areas and made the process of getting the club straight more difficult and more extreme than it needed to be. 

 

It needed to be done, it's been done badly, but I think that it is now done - and I think it's something he wanted to do before selling up. I still believe there's a basic decency on Randy Lerner, a desire to do the right thing - not a lot of common sense, but good intention. It's not been pleasant, and it's not made watching the team enjoyable over the past few years, but I think it's been done for the right reasons. I can forgive that.

 

 

I'm not sure I agree. The goals he scored that undoubtably kept us up have more than paid his fee/wages. I'm not sure what I'd class Bent as with regards to success.

[Big_John_10]

and after patching up some of the damage

I think this is where I differ. I just can't shrug off the last 4 years as patching up the damage.

He could have patched up the damage after MON but instead made it worse and then continued to make it worse. 4 consecutive relegation battles, the last 2 and potentially this one could see less points than Doug's final year. Club record breaking lows and just abysmal home form. For me that's not patching up the damage.

Patching up the damage to business - the effect of that on the pitch was always going to be visible, but it's been amplified by poor decision making, much of it Lerner's. McLeish was a mistake, Bent was a mistake, we've made poor choices in a number of areas and made the process of getting the club straight more difficult and more extreme than it needed to be.

It needed to be done, it's been done badly, but I think that it is now done - and I think it's something he wanted to do before selling up. I still believe there's a basic decency to Randy Lerner, a desire to do the right thing - not a lot of common sense, but good intention. It's not been pleasant, and it's not made watching the team enjoyable over the past few years, but I think it's been done for the right reasons. I can forgive that.

Can't disagree with that. But for me good intentions isn't enough. McLeish had good intentions, heskey had good intentions and I'm sure grant Holt has good intentions. Good intentions, for me, don't make up for awful decision making or not being up to the job.

[StefanAVFC]

There's a difference between 'good intentions' and 'pumping £250 million quid into the club' though isn't there?

[OutByEaster?]

 

 

 

and after patching up some of the damage

I think this is where I differ. I just can't shrug off the last 4 years as patching up the damage.

He could have patched up the damage after MON but instead made it worse and then continued to make it worse. 4 consecutive relegation battles, the last 2 and potentially this one could see less points than Doug's final year. Club record breaking lows and just abysmal home form. For me that's not patching up the damage.

Patching up the damage to business - the effect of that on the pitch was always going to be visible, but it's been amplified by poor decision making, much of it Lerner's. McLeish was a mistake, Bent was a mistake, we've made poor choices in a number of areas and made the process of getting the club straight more difficult and more extreme than it needed to be.

It needed to be done, it's been done badly, but I think that it is now done - and I think it's something he wanted to do before selling up. I still believe there's a basic decency to Randy Lerner, a desire to do the right thing - not a lot of common sense, but good intention. It's not been pleasant, and it's not made watching the team enjoyable over the past few years, but I think it's been done for the right reasons. I can forgive that.

Can't disagree with that. But for me good intentions isn't enough. McLeish had good intentions, heskey had good intentions and I'm sure grant Holt has good intentions. Good intentions, for me, don't make up for awful decision making or not being up to the job.

 

 

Good intentions and money give him enough to be just about in credit for me. Holt has good intentions on the pitch, I'm sure, but he's not paying to play (regardless of whether he should be).

 

I'll not look back too fondly on the last three or four seasons when Lerner has gone, but I'll remember the good times and for me he'll be a man that wanted the club to succeed, tried and failed. It's the right time for him to go and the right time for someone else to see if they can make it happen.

 

 

[suttonpaul]

John why are you boring everyone with Lerner hate still when you are so sure we're sold?