The Randy Lerner thread

[NurembergVillan]

Personally have mixed feelings over Lerner.

 

Not good enough.  Love or hate, or gtfo...  

[StefanAVFC]

 

I'm not clutching at straws because I, like you, want Lerner gone for the good of the club. However, your one-eyed approach towards the man is ridiculous. You're acting like an ungrateful child. Did Lerner have to buy the club and spend all of that money?

He's made mistakes. More mistakes than good decisions. However, you are failing to give him any credit for absolutely anything which is totally unfair. Things haven't been great on the playing side, but a football club isn't just about the playing side anymore.

Look at Man City. Look at what they've done to that area of Manchester. The football is 90 minutes a week. What RL has done behind the scenes for the infrastructure, charities and fans has been magnificent. If you want to completely disregard that because of what happens on the pitch then that's fine. I, however, think that you're doing a disservice to him.

Nice bloke, misguided football club owner.

So you defended Doug for his charity work when people wanted him out did you?

Clutch that randy Lerner straw.

 

 

I don't see what you're actually arguing against. I want Lerner out. I'm not defending him. I even said he hasn't been a good owner on the footballing side.

 

I genuinely can't see how you can argue that he hasn't done anything good in his time here.

[Big_John_10]

Do you think Leeds fans praise risdale for getting to a semi in the champs league at the moment?

Spending money with no clear plan for the future is hardly worthy of praise. Any idiot with money can spend it.

Bankrupt now then are we?

So you can only be unhappy if it leads to that?

Sorry. Thought you asked me about Leeds fans.

I think the point I was making was clear. Notice you couldn't argue against it.

Thought I'd take your approach of not answering the question posed.

What question was that? If I missed it I'll happily answer it now.

[samjp26]

I think its bed time 

[Big_John_10]

I'm not clutching at straws because I, like you, want Lerner gone for the good of the club. However, your one-eyed approach towards the man is ridiculous. You're acting like an ungrateful child. Did Lerner have to buy the club and spend all of that money?

He's made mistakes. More mistakes than good decisions. However, you are failing to give him any credit for absolutely anything which is totally unfair. Things haven't been great on the playing side, but a football club isn't just about the playing side anymore.

Look at Man City. Look at what they've done to that area of Manchester. The football is 90 minutes a week. What RL has done behind the scenes for the infrastructure, charities and fans has been magnificent. If you want to completely disregard that because of what happens on the pitch then that's fine. I, however, think that you're doing a disservice to him.

Nice bloke, misguided football club owner.

So you defended Doug for his charity work when people wanted him out did you?

Clutch that randy Lerner straw.

I don't see what you're actually arguing against. I want Lerner out. I'm not defending him. I even said he hasn't been a good owner on the footballing side.

I genuinely can't see how you can argue that he hasn't done anything good in his time here.

I said the charity work with acorns was superb.

[OutByEaster?]

 

I'm not clutching at straws because I, like you, want Lerner gone for the good of the club. However, your one-eyed approach towards the man is ridiculous. You're acting like an ungrateful child. Did Lerner have to buy the club and spend all of that money?

He's made mistakes. More mistakes than good decisions. However, you are failing to give him any credit for absolutely anything which is totally unfair. Things haven't been great on the playing side, but a football club isn't just about the playing side anymore.

Look at Man City. Look at what they've done to that area of Manchester. The football is 90 minutes a week. What RL has done behind the scenes for the infrastructure, charities and fans has been magnificent. If you want to completely disregard that because of what happens on the pitch then that's fine. I, however, think that you're doing a disservice to him.

Nice bloke, misguided football club owner.

So you defended Doug for his charity work when people wanted him out did you?

Clutch that randy Lerner straw.

 

 

Doug took our money and gave it to charities on the proviso that he got his face in the paper or something named after him.

 

Randy took his own money and gave it to charity in our name in the hope it would make our football club mean something in the local community.

 

Randy has made a lot of mistakes as an owner - but he's come back each time with more money to try again - and usually made another mistake. You can certainly make the argument that he's not very good at running a football club, but he's keen, he keeps trying and he's not robbing me every day to feather his own nest.

 

Is he the perfect owner? No. Is he the worst owner in football history? No. Is the the worst owner Villa have ever had? Not in my opinion.

[StefanAVFC]

 

 

 

I'm not clutching at straws because I, like you, want Lerner gone for the good of the club. However, your one-eyed approach towards the man is ridiculous. You're acting like an ungrateful child. Did Lerner have to buy the club and spend all of that money?

He's made mistakes. More mistakes than good decisions. However, you are failing to give him any credit for absolutely anything which is totally unfair. Things haven't been great on the playing side, but a football club isn't just about the playing side anymore.

Look at Man City. Look at what they've done to that area of Manchester. The football is 90 minutes a week. What RL has done behind the scenes for the infrastructure, charities and fans has been magnificent. If you want to completely disregard that because of what happens on the pitch then that's fine. I, however, think that you're doing a disservice to him.

Nice bloke, misguided football club owner.

So you defended Doug for his charity work when people wanted him out did you?

Clutch that randy Lerner straw.

I don't see what you're actually arguing against. I want Lerner out. I'm not defending him. I even said he hasn't been a good owner on the footballing side.

I genuinely can't see how you can argue that he hasn't done anything good in his time here.

I said the charity work with acorns was superb.

 

 

It had to be provoked out of you.

 

You were just bleating on about how awful he's been without any mention of any positives.

[NurembergVillan]

 

 

What's the point? This just adds to the idea he gets defended because he's not Doug.

And you're just adding to the idea that he should be toasted because he's not Mansour bin Zayed al Nahyan.

Then you're not reading my point or just making it up. If you think my issue with Lerner is based solely on what he's spent then you're wrong.

 

 

What IS your issue then?

 

He took a punt on CL qualification, worked on the 5 year plan towards that (and it was fun - don't tell me you spent the four years under O'Neill worrying about what would happen next instead of enjoying the cup final and the win at Old Trafford and consistently besting Mourinho) and was scuppered by someone with more money coming in and beating him to the punch.

 

Based on that he realised he couldn't compete, has cut costs dramatically (and dangerously - a real negative and a horrible few years with it) and seemingly prepared us for sale to someone who gives us a better chance of competing.  Like he promised he would at the outset.

 

Has it all been perfect?  No.  Has it all been absolute shit?  No.  There have been highs and lows.  That's football.

[Big_John_10]

I'm not clutching at straws because I, like you, want Lerner gone for the good of the club. However, your one-eyed approach towards the man is ridiculous. You're acting like an ungrateful child. Did Lerner have to buy the club and spend all of that money?

He's made mistakes. More mistakes than good decisions. However, you are failing to give him any credit for absolutely anything which is totally unfair. Things haven't been great on the playing side, but a football club isn't just about the playing side anymore.

Look at Man City. Look at what they've done to that area of Manchester. The football is 90 minutes a week. What RL has done behind the scenes for the infrastructure, charities and fans has been magnificent. If you want to completely disregard that because of what happens on the pitch then that's fine. I, however, think that you're doing a disservice to him.

Nice bloke, misguided football club owner.

So you defended Doug for his charity work when people wanted him out did you?

Clutch that randy Lerner straw.

I don't see what you're actually arguing against. I want Lerner out. I'm not defending him. I even said he hasn't been a good owner on the footballing side.

I genuinely can't see how you can argue that he hasn't done anything good in his time here.

I said the charity work with acorns was superb.

It had to be provoked out of you.

You were just bleating on about how awful he's been without any mention of any positives.

Sorry I thought we were talking about a football club.

The fact acorns is the main thing people are jumping to defend him shows what a failure he's been as a sports owner.

[thetrees]

Didn't Doug get awarded for his charity work? Did you bang on about that to people who wanted him gone?

A small correction.

Ellis got 'awarded' for his charity work after he left.

Basically, when he was at the Villa, the money that he leeched from the club was his only source of income, so philanthropy was far from his mind.

After he pocketed £28m from Randy Lerner, he made a substantial donation to Childline which, regardless of how he came about the money, he should be lauded for.

The knighthood that he always craved soon followed.

[samjp26]

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not clutching at straws because I, like you, want Lerner gone for the good of the club. However, your one-eyed approach towards the man is ridiculous. You're acting like an ungrateful child. Did Lerner have to buy the club and spend all of that money?

He's made mistakes. More mistakes than good decisions. However, you are failing to give him any credit for absolutely anything which is totally unfair. Things haven't been great on the playing side, but a football club isn't just about the playing side anymore.

Look at Man City. Look at what they've done to that area of Manchester. The football is 90 minutes a week. What RL has done behind the scenes for the infrastructure, charities and fans has been magnificent. If you want to completely disregard that because of what happens on the pitch then that's fine. I, however, think that you're doing a disservice to him.

Nice bloke, misguided football club owner.

So you defended Doug for his charity work when people wanted him out did you?

Clutch that randy Lerner straw.

I don't see what you're actually arguing against. I want Lerner out. I'm not defending him. I even said he hasn't been a good owner on the footballing side.

I genuinely can't see how you can argue that he hasn't done anything good in his time here.

I said the charity work with acorns was superb.

It had to be provoked out of you.

You were just bleating on about how awful he's been without any mention of any positives.

Sorry I thought we were talking about a football club.

The fact acorns is the main thing people are jumping to defend him shows what a failure he's been as a sports owner.

 

 

Nobody is using Acorns as a means to defend him, people are just reflecting on his time here and mentioning the positive things that he has achieved rather than just solely focusing on the negative. Why is that such an issue to you?

 

Pretty much everybody you are debating with right now actually wants him to go. Why? Because of the footballing reasons that you yourself want him to go for. Your view on Lerner seems to be the exact same as it is on Lambert, you seem to dislike anybody saying anything positive and if they do, you believe they are wrong.

[StefanAVFC]

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not clutching at straws because I, like you, want Lerner gone for the good of the club. However, your one-eyed approach towards the man is ridiculous. You're acting like an ungrateful child. Did Lerner have to buy the club and spend all of that money?

He's made mistakes. More mistakes than good decisions. However, you are failing to give him any credit for absolutely anything which is totally unfair. Things haven't been great on the playing side, but a football club isn't just about the playing side anymore.

Look at Man City. Look at what they've done to that area of Manchester. The football is 90 minutes a week. What RL has done behind the scenes for the infrastructure, charities and fans has been magnificent. If you want to completely disregard that because of what happens on the pitch then that's fine. I, however, think that you're doing a disservice to him.

Nice bloke, misguided football club owner.

So you defended Doug for his charity work when people wanted him out did you?

Clutch that randy Lerner straw.

I don't see what you're actually arguing against. I want Lerner out. I'm not defending him. I even said he hasn't been a good owner on the footballing side.

I genuinely can't see how you can argue that he hasn't done anything good in his time here.

I said the charity work with acorns was superb.

It had to be provoked out of you.

You were just bleating on about how awful he's been without any mention of any positives.

Sorry I thought we were talking about a football club.

The fact acorns is the main thing people are jumping to defend him shows what a failure he's been as a sports owner.

 

 

You're just repeating yourself now when this point has been addressed numerous times now. I've now said TWICE (in the past 20 minutes) that he hasn't been a good owner on the pitch. Yet you continue to say I'm defending him.

[Big_John_10]

What's the point? This just adds to the idea he gets defended because he's not Doug.

And you're just adding to the idea that he should be toasted because he's not Mansour bin Zayed al Nahyan.

Then you're not reading my point or just making it up. If you think my issue with Lerner is based solely on what he's spent then you're wrong.

What IS your issue then?

He took a punt on CL qualification, worked on the 5 year plan towards that (and it was fun - don't tell me you spent the four years under O'Neill worrying about what would happen next instead of enjoying the cup final and the win at Old Trafford and consistently besting Mourinho) and was scuppered by someone with more money coming in and beating him to the punch.

Based on that he realised he couldn't compete, has cut costs dramatically (and dangerously - a real negative and a horrible few years with it) and seemingly prepared us for sale to someone who gives us a better chance of competing. Like he promised he would at the outset.

Has it all been perfect? No. Has it all been absolute shit? No. There have been highs and lows. That's football.

You seem to dismiss things very easily.

I loved the MON years. I don't know if my posts are still around this long but I doubt there were many posters more positive about the club than myself. I didn't worry about the future and enjoyed it as I thought our owner knew what he was doing. But like my example with leeds, while its good at the time it doesn't mean its reflected upon fondly and just shrugged off when it leads to struggles.

He spent with no clear plan and then made things much worse with his managerial decisions, especially McLeish who is probably the worst appointment any premiership club has made.

He then cut costs making the team worse and worse till it reached a point where current season ticket holders saw us lose more games than any other set of fans in the history of the club. He stayed away from the club and failed to communicate with fans while happily gambling with our premiership survival. Have a look at the players we signed during the last 3 January windows.

He's made sure his losses aren't too bad while we, the fans, have suffered. You've no problem with that, I have.

Either way it seems he'll soon be gone. A failure in another sport.

[samjp26]

 

 

 

 

What's the point? This just adds to the idea he gets defended because he's not Doug.

And you're just adding to the idea that he should be toasted because he's not Mansour bin Zayed al Nahyan.

Then you're not reading my point or just making it up. If you think my issue with Lerner is based solely on what he's spent then you're wrong.

What IS your issue then?

He took a punt on CL qualification, worked on the 5 year plan towards that (and it was fun - don't tell me you spent the four years under O'Neill worrying about what would happen next instead of enjoying the cup final and the win at Old Trafford and consistently besting Mourinho) and was scuppered by someone with more money coming in and beating him to the punch.

Based on that he realised he couldn't compete, has cut costs dramatically (and dangerously - a real negative and a horrible few years with it) and seemingly prepared us for sale to someone who gives us a better chance of competing. Like he promised he would at the outset.

Has it all been perfect? No. Has it all been absolute shit? No. There have been highs and lows. That's football.

You seem to dismiss things very easily.

I loved the MON years. I don't know if my posts are still around this long but I doubt there were many posters more positive about the club than myself. I didn't worry about the future and enjoyed it as I thought our owner knew what he was doing. But like my example with leeds, while its good at the time it doesn't mean its reflected upon fondly and just shrugged off when it leads to struggles.

He spent with no clear plan and then made things much worse with his managerial decisions, especially McLeish who is probably the worst appointment any premiership club has made.

He then cut costs making the team worse and worse till it reached a point where current season ticket holders saw us lose more games than any other set of fans in the history of the club. He stayed away from the club and failed to communicate with fans while happily gambling with our premiership survival. Have a look at the players we signed during the last 3 January windows.

He's made sure his losses aren't too bad while we, the fans, have suffered. You've no problem with that, I have.

Either way it seems he'll soon be gone. A failure in another sport.

 

 

But that is the thing, we all do have a problem with that, which is why we want him gone. Thing is, as bad as things have turned out, it is still possible to look at the positives that happened previously too. Hopefully what has happened will turn out to be useful for the new owners should they arrive and they'll be able to learn from not only his mistakes but also from the things he did okay with.

Edited April 20, 2014 by samjp26

[NurembergVillan]

 

 

 

 

What's the point? This just adds to the idea he gets defended because he's not Doug.

And you're just adding to the idea that he should be toasted because he's not Mansour bin Zayed al Nahyan.

Then you're not reading my point or just making it up. If you think my issue with Lerner is based solely on what he's spent then you're wrong.

What IS your issue then?

He took a punt on CL qualification, worked on the 5 year plan towards that (and it was fun - don't tell me you spent the four years under O'Neill worrying about what would happen next instead of enjoying the cup final and the win at Old Trafford and consistently besting Mourinho) and was scuppered by someone with more money coming in and beating him to the punch.

Based on that he realised he couldn't compete, has cut costs dramatically (and dangerously - a real negative and a horrible few years with it) and seemingly prepared us for sale to someone who gives us a better chance of competing. Like he promised he would at the outset.

Has it all been perfect? No. Has it all been absolute shit? No. There have been highs and lows. That's football.

You seem to dismiss things very easily.

I loved the MON years. I don't know if my posts are still around this long but I doubt there were many posters more positive about the club than myself. I didn't worry about the future and enjoyed it as I thought our owner knew what he was doing. But like my example with leeds, while its good at the time it doesn't mean its reflected upon fondly and just shrugged off when it leads to struggles.

He spent with no clear plan and then made things much worse with his managerial decisions, especially McLeish who is probably the worst appointment any premiership club has made.

He then cut costs making the team worse and worse till it reached a point where current season ticket holders saw us lose more games than any other set of fans in the history of the club. He stayed away from the club and failed to communicate with fans while happily gambling with our premiership survival. Have a look at the players we signed during the last 3 January windows.

He's made sure his losses aren't too bad while we, the fans, have suffered. You've no problem with that, I have.

Either way it seems he'll soon be gone. A failure in another sport.

 

 

So basically what I said then, but using different words  

 

In hindsight, would you have swapped the four years of excitement followed by four years of struggle for eight years of mediocrity - finishing 10th to 12th every season and getting into the last 16 of cup competitions?

[Big_John_10]

Great. Then let's all enjoy the fact this awful owner is finally on his way out

[StefanAVFC]

Great. Then let's all enjoy the fact this awful owner is finally on his way out

 

And that's absolutely fine.

 

What isn't fine (imo) is being shouted down for praising him for the limited good he's done for the club, area and associated charities.

[Big_John_10]

What's the point? This just adds to the idea he gets defended because he's not Doug.

And you're just adding to the idea that he should be toasted because he's not Mansour bin Zayed al Nahyan.

Then you're not reading my point or just making it up. If you think my issue with Lerner is based solely on what he's spent then you're wrong.

What IS your issue then?

He took a punt on CL qualification, worked on the 5 year plan towards that (and it was fun - don't tell me you spent the four years under O'Neill worrying about what would happen next instead of enjoying the cup final and the win at Old Trafford and consistently besting Mourinho) and was scuppered by someone with more money coming in and beating him to the punch.

Based on that he realised he couldn't compete, has cut costs dramatically (and dangerously - a real negative and a horrible few years with it) and seemingly prepared us for sale to someone who gives us a better chance of competing. Like he promised he would at the outset.

Has it all been perfect? No. Has it all been absolute shit? No. There have been highs and lows. That's football.

You seem to dismiss things very easily.

I loved the MON years. I don't know if my posts are still around this long but I doubt there were many posters more positive about the club than myself. I didn't worry about the future and enjoyed it as I thought our owner knew what he was doing. But like my example with leeds, while its good at the time it doesn't mean its reflected upon fondly and just shrugged off when it leads to struggles.

He spent with no clear plan and then made things much worse with his managerial decisions, especially McLeish who is probably the worst appointment any premiership club has made.

He then cut costs making the team worse and worse till it reached a point where current season ticket holders saw us lose more games than any other set of fans in the history of the club. He stayed away from the club and failed to communicate with fans while happily gambling with our premiership survival. Have a look at the players we signed during the last 3 January windows.

He's made sure his losses aren't too bad while we, the fans, have suffered. You've no problem with that, I have.

Either way it seems he'll soon be gone. A failure in another sport.

So basically what I said then, but using different words

In hindsight, would you have swapped the four years of excitement followed by four years of struggle for eight years of mediocrity - finishing 10th to 12th every season and getting into the last 16 of cup competitions?

Good question and hard to answer.

I bloody loved those first 4 years, the excitement and the hope was something I'd never experienced as a villa fan before.

I guess if pushed I'd maybe lean towards 8 mediocre years before being taken over. Because the last few years have nearly drained me of my enjoyment of being a villa fan.

Great. Then let's all enjoy the fact this awful owner is finally on his way out

And that's absolutely fine.

What isn't fine (imo) is being shouted down for praising him for the limited good he's done for the club, area and associated charities.

Shouted down? Its a message board.

[samjp26]

Great. Then let's all enjoy the fact this awful owner is finally on his way out

 

Yes, let us do that. But I for one, just like you admit you did, enjoyed the time with MON when Lerner first joined and I also appreciate his efforts in restructuring the club at business level. But again, I for one, just like yourself, want to see him go now so that we can hopefully invest and in turn improve on the pitch.

[StefanAVFC]

Pedantic but I'll roll with it.

 

Regardless of it being a message board, when you're told you're wrong for an opinion, it isn't a nice feeling. People should be allowed to post their positives about Lerner without being told they're wrong.