Richard Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 To bypass the FFP rules? I thought these were to be adhered to full stop and this adherence was one thing that people were saying Randy was trying to do as a positive? No Richard. The (Any) club, under the FFP 3 year monitoring period, is (only) permitted losses of more than £5m each year if there is an injection of equity to cover that loss. In other words, loss making Villa can only comply with the rules if for losses of more than 5 mill, Randy puts in as equity, the amount in excess of the 5 mill. Randy putting in equity is not bypassing any rules, quite the opposite.Blandy, I never said it was bypassing the rules, I questionning the feeling that maybe it was, hence the question mark there in my first sentence. And from your original answer to Denis below.... Excuse my ignorance but why would he buy shares and risk a loss rather than just making another loan at 3% above base like he has done before? In simple terms, Den, it's effectively a "gift" to the club - the club is worth exactly the same today as yesterday, he owns all the shares, but by issuing 5 million quid's worth of shares and then buying them, the club has £5 million more, he has £5 miilion less in his bank account - it's not a loan, it's equity. That's slightly simplistic, but covers the thing. It's also exempt from the FFP ruling - because he can't just take the money back, as it's not a loan. It suggests, also, commitment to the club. Perhaps the money is needed because revenue is down, perhaps because the club is about to spend it, perhaps because some payments are due, for transfer fees or payments that the club didn't have 5 mill in the bank available to pay out. Simplistic, again. But I think that it tends to show that contrary to some opinion he's not looking to get rid of the club, not looking to sell and despite saying little is "showing" rather than talking. If he was about to sell it would be dead money. Even if he sells longer term it's effectively, for him, lost money.seemed to suggest that this money was not part of the FFP rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggyrichard Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Why would an owner who is about to cut and run pay for 60 coaches for fans? So are you suggesting he gone back on his decision and is once again going to splash the cash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Why would an owner who is about to cut and run pay for 60 coaches for fans? So are you suggesting he gone back on his decision and is once again going to splash the cash? I'm suggesting the Qatar rumours are rubbish. If I were selling my business I wouldn't give my customers a gift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Why would an owner who is about to cut and run pay for 60 coaches for fans?He didn't. The club did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildwood Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Why would an owner who is about to cut and run pay for 60 coaches for fans? Well my first thoughts (if true etc) are: Randy is a decent guy, yeah maybe he doesn't have the money to cope running us and the other team. But he's still a nice guy, what better to end a 'legacy' (and one that I will always reminisce positively about) than giving the fans something back. After all he knows we're playing rubbish, so he wants to 'treat' the fans in a 'cheaper' way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggyrichard Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Why would an owner who is about to cut and run pay for 60 coaches for fans? So are you suggesting he gone back on his decision and is once again going to splash the cash? I'm suggesting the Qatar rumours are rubbish. If I were selling my business I wouldn't give my customers a gift. Yeah, but thats just because your a mean old fuddy duddy*! :winkold: *I have no idea how old you are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Why would an owner who is about to cut and run pay for 60 coaches for fans? Well my first thoughts (if true etc) are: Randy is a decent guy, yeah maybe he doesn't have the money to cope running us and the other team. But he's still a nice guy, what better to end a 'legacy' (and one that I will always reminisce positively about) than giving the fans something back. After all he knows we're playing rubbish, so he wants to 'treat' the fans in a 'cheaper' way. He's trying to get the fans on side after his horrific choice of manager. Not the actions of someone about to sell IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggyrichard Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Why would an owner who is about to cut and run pay for 60 coaches for fans? Well my first thoughts (if true etc) are: Randy is a decent guy, yeah maybe he doesn't have the money to cope running us and the other team. But he's still a nice guy, what better to end a 'legacy' (and one that I will always reminisce positively about) than giving the fans something back. After all he knows we're playing rubbish, so he wants to 'treat' the fans in a 'cheaper' way. He's trying to get the fans on side after his horrific choice of manager. Not the actions of someone about to sell IMO. Lets not kid ourselves and think he didnt know what was going to happen when he appoint McLeish, he knew full well that it would cause a shitstorm among the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 A good run in the FA cup would've placated some of the less militant fans. I reckon the Qatari rumours will be put back until the summer giving people false hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 31, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2012 He isn't in my opinion about to sell, to think he is really is without any logic at all not least because he simply wouldn't get the price required to recover what he has spent. The stuff about Qatari takeovers is in my opinion a load of balls, probably made up by some kid in his bedroom taking a break from reading Twilight. In fact it was probably made up by a Bluenose for a laugh in which case he wouldn't be taking a break from Twighlight as they tend to burn books to keep themselves warm. If those guys wanted to buy Villa and Randy wanted to sell it would just happen, these guys don't need to wait for a cheque to clear before they go spending. Why on earth would they wait in the wings for a few months? When Randy arrived there was talk (I think from the General) of him being here for 10 years and I think that is what he will likely do. By that time the loans will likely be repaid thus meaning the value he would need to realise from a sale in order to get his money back would be significantly less, plus there may be more interested parties by then if the economy has picked up. Right now there wouldn't be much of a que forming to buy us. So I don't think we are for sale, I don't think a takeover is likely or immenent and I don't think Randy is going anywhere in the next year or two. So spending a bit of cash on coaches isn't a bad idea for a bit of positive customer relations when you've made such a complete hash of things for the best part of 2 years and a complete dogs dinner of it in the last 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Why would an owner who is about to cut and run pay for 60 coaches for fans? Randy strikes me as the kind of guy who needs to be liked I'm guessing he's had few "genuine" friends in life with the upbringing and background he's had. I also get the feeling he's very spontaneous, slightly erratic and blows hot and cold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Why would an owner who is about to cut and run pay for 60 coaches for fans? So are you suggesting he gone back on his decision and is once again going to splash the cash? I am not sure about 'going back' He 'splashed the cash' and, for whatever reason, it did not work. If circumstances change again, then maybe he will have another 'splash", but i don't see it happening any time soon. In the meantime, he has made decent amounts of transfer funding to all of his managers, it's just that the last two have not had anywhere near the funding of the first, but they have been backed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 He isn't in my opinion about to sell, to think he is really is without any logic at all not least because he simply wouldn't get the price required to recover what he has spent. The stuff about Qatari takeovers is in my opinion a load of balls, probably made up by some kid in his bedroom taking a break from reading Twilight. In fact it was probably made up by a Bluenose for a laugh in which case he wouldn't be taking a break from Twighlight as they tend to burn books to keep themselves warm. If those guys wanted to buy Villa and Randy wanted to sell it would just happen, these guys don't need to wait for a cheque to clear before they go spending. Why on earth would they wait in the wings for a few months? When Randy arrived there was talk (I think from the General) of him being here for 10 years and I think that is what he will likely do. By that time the loans will likely be repaid thus meaning the value he would need to realise from a sale in order to get his money back would be significantly less, plus there may be more interested parties by then if the economy has picked up. Right now there wouldn't be much of a que forming to buy us. So I don't think we are for sale, I don't think a takeover is likely or immenent and I don't think Randy is going anywhere in the next year or two. So spending a bit of cash on coaches isn't a bad idea for a bit of positive customer relations when you've made such a complete hash of things for the best part of 2 years and a complete dogs dinner of it in the last 6 months.Sadly, however great my desire to dare to hope otherwise, I believe this to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 He isn't going to sell and he won't splash the cash. He will make some funds available I'm sure but unfortunately I can't see his latest poor managerial appointment doing anything but waste it. I imagine Randy Lerner is happy just owning a premiership team. Midtable obscurity until as Trent says he gets the right deal for him, which could take some time. The guy has been a failure and waving those scarves against Sheffield United seems a bit of a joke now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 He isn't going to sell and he won't splash the cash. He will make some funds available I'm sure but unfortunately I can't see his latest poor managerial appointment doing anything but waste it. I imagine Randy Lerner is happy just owning a premiership team. Midtable obscurity until as Trent says he gets the right deal for him, which could take some time. The guy has been a failure and waving those scarves against Sheffield United seems a bit of a joke now. Yanks are a different breed. He will sell up soon enough - 2 years Max IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What the hell, let's get back on topic..... .....just climbing through 23000' en route to Cleveland. Safe trip, Mr. L. Be sure to wrap up for Indianapolis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer24 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Why would an owner who is about to cut and run pay for 60 coaches for fans? Cynical I may be, but I'm not sure it was that much of a 'gift', if at all - although I'm not 100% sure any of these figures tally. If each coach takes 70 people - that's £2400 of ticket sales (£35 a ticket?) 60 x 70 people - that's £147000 of ticket sales. Now if, as I believe, we get a much greater share of FA Cup ticket sales then perhaps it was a worth getting the sell out for Villa rather than making people pay for their own transport and only selling half the tickets. Financially it might of made sense and actually got a little bit more cash for Villa. Not taking into account that we probably have a contract with a coach company or two and get corporate rates and bulk discounts. The fact it was an FA cup game is what inspires this thinking. HOWEVER, don't shoot me down. I admit I could have the numbers entirely wrong and being overly harsh on Lerner/ Villa on this one. Thinking aloud so to speak for more knowledgeable people to debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What the hell, let's get back on topic..... .....just climbing through 23000' en route to Cleveland. Safe trip, Mr. L. Be sure to wrap up for Indianapolis I wonder what the purpose of his visit was ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What the hell, let's get back on topic..... .....just climbing through 23000' en route to Cleveland. Safe trip, Mr. L. Be sure to wrap up for Indianapolis So another game without him? Don't know how he can manage without experiencing the cracking atmosphere and scintilating soccer on show at B6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What the hell, let's get back on topic..... .....just climbing through 23000' en route to Cleveland. Safe trip, Mr. L. Be sure to wrap up for Indianapolis I wonder what the purpose of his visit was ? I was going to say that he visits quite regularly, I just don't bother reporting it any more. I think he comes over to show an interest in the business that he's not interested in :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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