The Randy Lerner thread

[Woodytom]

Fair enough, I respect that rather than trying to stand by something.

I would still challenge the notion that McLeish was the best manager we could have appointed at the time, I simply don't accept that. Suppose I did though, given that I think we can agree McLeish is a pretty bad manager, if he was the absolute best we could appoint answer me this... who's fault is that? Personally I'm pointing the finger at Lerner again.

Yep thats a fair point, though I cant say I would point it solely at Lerner. I think Martin O'Neill has to take some responsibility. I think the geographic/economics of the club too which we can't do anything about. There has to be a reason for why the managers we have had over a three decade period have tended to be absolutely awful. And thats not all down to Lerner.

I think Lerner attempted to take a very poor side to a place it had never been to for over a century - sustained success. In making a total arse of it we are now in a slightly worse state than when he took over (albeit with a manager who you can half get behind). For that, his tenure appears at this point unsuccessful. And thats how it might end. But I like that he's tried to rectify the mistake rather than bail. One things for sure, there will be 1 man who suffers more than anyone if we go down.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

We had four good years under MON, a strange and mixed season under GH (although we still finished 9th), a very bad season under AM, and another half of a bad season under PL. In simple terms, the good times have so far outweighed the bad.

I'm not sure we're on the road to great things under PL, but that will remain to be seen. If we're still knocking around the lower echelons of the table in a season or two then I'll get on Lerner's back, but if we're going in the right direction then that will be fine by me again.

That's not, however, to say that I wouldn't welcome a filthy rich owner with open arms.

[TrentVilla]

Yep thats a fair point, though I cant say I would point it solely at Lerner. I think Martin O'Neill has to take some responsibility. I think the geographic/economics of the club too which we can't do anything about. There has to be a reason for why the managers we have had over a three decade period have tended to be absolutely awful. And thats not all down to Lerner.

Again I disagree.

First, the managers we've had over 3 decades. We've had some good ones and we've had some bad ones, unfortunately for 20 odd years we had an owner with a cornershop mentality. For the last 7 we've had Randy and I think my views are clear on him.

As for geography, sorry I just don't accept that as a factor. Sure people would prefer London but I just don't think this has ever been a factor that has impacted on our ability to hire a manager.

In relation to O'Neill, yes he wasted money. But it isn't his fault that he was allowed to build a wage bill that was unsustainable, it was the wage bill that caused the problem. The squad he left behind was a good one and at the time included Milner and Young. It wasn't our squad that impacted upon the list of potential managers if indeed anything did, it would have been the requirement to break the squad up, sell the best players and reduce the wage bill year on year. Again, that is down to Lerner not O'Neill.

I think Lerner attempted to take a very poor side to a place it had never been to for over a century - sustained success. In making a total arse of it we are now in a slightly worse state than when he took over (albeit with a manager who you can half get behind). For that, his tenure appears at this point unsuccessful. And thats how it might end. But I like that he's tried to rectify the mistake rather than bail. One things for sure, there will be 1 man who suffers more than anyone if we go down.

Slightly? We've a huge debt, a squad that is worse than the one in place when he arrived and we are fighting relegation for the 3 successive year. What do we have to show for our huge debt? A training ground that was state of the art 4 years ago and has since become the standard of facilities on offer from plenty of clubs.

As for trying to rectify his mistake rather than bail, he had no choice. He couldn't bail, how could have done? He would have had to write off millions in loans because the value of the club wasn't sufficient to cover his investment. He didn't do the decent thing by sticking around he did the only thing he could do and we are paying the price for it every year as he pays his loans back.

[Zatman]

Yet Everton manage it with far less money but an astute manager and a chairman who sets a clear budget.

true but i think difference was their manager went for hungry players that either were young or had a point to prove like Jagielka, Baines, Pienaar etc. we got Nigel reo-Coker and james Collins :'(

[Amo69]

I think both MON and RL are too blame. MON was highly regarding and if Lerner didn't give him compete backing he would have walked. Way to much trust was given to the wrong man. He is now doing similar business with Sunderland. It will be interesting to see the position they are in 3-4 years down the line.

[Big_John_10]

true but i think difference was their manager went for hungry players that either were young or had a point to prove like Jagielka, Baines, Pienaar etc. we got Nigel reo-Coker and james Collins :'(

Comparing Moyes best signings with Mon's worse.

Seems fair.

[Zatman]

sorry I couldnt think of a MON signing that was 2 million like Pienaar except maybe Maloney or Routledge. or a top centre back that was 4 million compared to the 31 million combined of Dunne, Davies, Cuellar, KNight and Collins.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

sorry I couldnt think of a MON signing that was 2 million like Pienaar except maybe Maloney or Routledge. or a top centre back that was 4 million compared to the 31 million combined of Dunne, Davies, Cuellar, KNight and Collins.

The type of players that Lambert is trying to unearth you mean?

[Zatman]

exactly the same type. Only thing was MOyes had some experience at Everton at time like Weir, Kilbane, Carsley that these players didnt feel so out of place. sadly we dont have that at moment

[lexicon]

We had four good years under MON, a strange and mixed season under GH (although we still finished 9th), a very bad season under AM, and another half of a bad season under PL. In simple terms, the good times have so far outweighed the bad.

I'm not sure we're on the road to great things under PL, but that will remain to be seen. If we're still knocking around the lower echelons of the table in a season or two then I'll get on Lerner's back, but if we're going in the right direction then that will be fine by me again.

That's not, however, to say that I wouldn't welcome a filthy rich owner with open arms.

Seems like a perfectly reasonable position to take.

[TrentVilla]

The way we are going we will be lucky to still be in the PL in 2 years time.

[Big_John_10]

Although the years under mon were good i'm not sure you can class them as a positive for lerner because behind the scenes things were obviously being run badly and serious mistakes were made. That period has helped make us worse than we were under doug.

[blandy]

Yet Everton manage it with far less money but an astute manager and a chairman who sets a clear budget.

A few years ago, Moyes had an absolute 'mare at Everton, the fans were calling for him to go, attendances had dropped, the side was struggling down the bottom. They stuck with him, stuck to their plans, and now they're cited as a fine example. I think it was maybe his second season there, not sure from memory. People were saying he came from Preston, couldn't cope with the prem, the Club wasn't spending...yada yada.

It may or may not be a fair comparison, but in term of your post, it's what we're doing here now, isn't it?

[blandy]

Sorry but that is nonsense. The fact they were interviewed proves they were available, that we didn't land them for whatever reason doesn't detract from the fact they were available. I'd also add we interviewed McLaren and I personally consider him a better manager than McLeish.

You said McLeish was the best manager available, that just isn't correct.

Martinez was NOT interviewed. We contacted Wigan, asked for permission, there was the whole kerfuffle with the publicity shy Dave Whelan and Martinez decided he wanted to stay at Wigan, He did not go for an interview at Villa.

[TrentVilla]

A few years ago, Moyes had an absolute 'mare at Everton, the fans were calling for him to go, attendances had dropped, the side was struggling down the bottom. They stuck with him, stuck to their plans, and now they're cited as a fine example. I think it was maybe his second season there, not sure from memory. People were saying he came from Preston, couldn't cope with the prem, the Club wasn't spending...yada yada.

It may or may not be a fair comparison, but in term of your post, it's what we're doing here now, isn't it?

Yes that happened, I think it was his 3rd season but that doesn't really matter.

In terms of what we are doing now, yes perhaps, we will see I think it is a little early to tell. That doesn't detract from my point in relation to the lack of this over the last 7 years.

[TrentVilla]

Martinez was NOT interviewed. We contacted Wigan, asked for permission, there was the whole kerfuffle with the publicity shy Dave Whelan and Martinez decided he wanted to stay at Wigan, He did not go for an interview at Villa.

Wasn't that the first time around before we appointed Houllier not the second before we appointed McLeish?

[Nabby]

From the Guardian

At what stage does Randy Lerner decide that he has had enough of life as Aston Villa's owner? The American made a rare visit to Villa Park on Saturday and must have departed wishing he had stayed away. Villa are heading for a relegation battle for the third successive season, which must be particularly galling when Lerner looks at a balance sheet that shows he has pumped upwards of £200m into the club since he took over in 2006. The club's net spend over the last five years is just under £70m, which is the fourth highest in the Premier League. Tottenham's net spend over that period is just over £3m. Everton's figures show a profit. Yet while those two clubs are pursuing Champions League qualification, Villa are trying to avoid slipping into the Championship, which means Lerner may have to dip into his pocket once more. There must come a point when he becomes fed up with running up huge losses and seeing little reward on the pitch and decides it is time to sell up and get out.

[Big_John_10]

That just shows that lerners only skill has been to spend.

And lets face it any idiot with money can do that.

It was the same at the browns, its his absolute shit decsion making that effects the club.

[TrentVilla]

A bit of a dumb article that really as they seem to be oblivious to the fact a lot of that is loans which are being repaid and the fact he would find it impossible to 'get out' without losing a fortune. He will be sticking around, spending as little as possible and paying back the loans for a while yet.

[blandy]

Wasn't that the first time around before we appointed Houllier not the second before we appointed McLeish?

I don't think so, Trent, as I remember talking to a Wigan fan at the time, and he told me (before it came out) that RM had decided to stay at Wigan. it was in the summer 18 months ago, definitely, as I remember exactly where I was, when it happened. But it doesn't really matter anyway.