The Randy Lerner thread

[Big_John_10]

but I'd still prefer to be where we are now than where we were under Ellis.

I'm struggling to see any real differences in the things that actually matter.

Just that one wasn't liked and one gave us some gifts, a coach journey and has a tattoo.

If Ellis was still here we would be lower Championship or maybe League 1 a this stage

Possibly.

If Lerner left this summer you could quite easily say the same in a few years.

Shit manager. Shit results, shit performances, poor attendances, no ambition.

How is that different to doug's last season?

[Richard]

It isn't. It has all been a mere facade. All presentation and no substance and even the presentation has been shite in the last two years

[Si.]

but I'd still prefer to be where we are now than where we were under Ellis.

I'm struggling to see any real differences in the things that actually matter.

Just that one wasn't liked and one gave us some gifts, a coach journey and has a tattoo.

If Ellis was still here we would be lower Championship or maybe League 1 a this stage

Possibly.

If Lerner left this summer you could quite easily say the same in a few years.

Shit manager. Shit results, shit performances, poor attendances, no ambition.

How is that different to doug's last season?

Its not.

[Pelle]

but I'd still prefer to be where we are now than where we were under Ellis.

I'm struggling to see any real differences in the things that actually matter.

Just that one wasn't liked and one gave us some gifts, a coach journey and has a tattoo.

If Ellis was still here we would be lower Championship or maybe League 1 a this stage

Possibly.

If Lerner left this summer you could quite easily say the same in a few years.

Shit manager. Shit results, shit performances, poor attendances, no ambition.

How is that different to doug's last season?

There's a world of difference. Doug wouldn't even finish the rebuild of BH. The infrastructure. Well, kind of all what Blandy said yesterday. And all this makes it easier for us to rise again and get out of this mess we're in.

And I don't know if it's down to Lerner or not, but the youth set up we have today is a lot better than it was during Ellis' days.

We just have to get rid of AML and appoint a decent manager who's got the fans on his side from the start and we'll start to climb again, I'm sure of that. He'd need some backing too, of course.

[Big_John_10]

There's a world of difference. Doug wouldn't even finish the rebuild of BH. The infrastructure. Well, kind of all what Blandy said yesterday. And all this makes it easier for us to rise again and get out of this mess we're in.

And I don't know if it's down to Lerner or not, but the youth set up we have today is a lot better than it was during Ellis' days.

Is the youth today a lot better?

Didn't we win the FA youth cup while doug was in charge?

Aren't Cahill and gabby products of that youth system?

The training ground is a big improvement but it's hardly the most important thing. We were able to sign good players in the past without it and I doubt a single player will ignore Mcleish, league position, future ambition of the club and sign because we have a nice training ground.

The things that matter are the same and like at the end of doug's reign we are heading in one direction.

[KHV]

The youth set up is no better. it hasn't produced any better players than it did under Doug.

Doug would also never ever hired an ex blues manager and he would also not have let us get into £200m worth of debt. personally given the position we are in i could not give two **** about the training ground or the pub lerner has done up.

[Si.]

The youth set up is no better. it hasn't produced any better players than it did under Doug.

Doug would also never ever hired an ex blues manager and he would also not have let us get into £200m worth of debt. personally given the position we are in i could not give two **** about the training ground or the pub lerner has done up.

Agreed.

[Pelle]

There's a world of difference. Doug wouldn't even finish the rebuild of BH. The infrastructure. Well, kind of all what Blandy said yesterday. And all this makes it easier for us to rise again and get out of this mess we're in.

And I don't know if it's down to Lerner or not, but the youth set up we have today is a lot better than it was during Ellis' days.

Is the youth today a lot better?

Didn't we win the FA youth cup while doug was in charge?

Aren't Cahill and gabby products of that youth system?

The training ground is a big improvement but it's hardly the most important thing. We were able to sign good players in the past without it and I doubt a single player will ignore Mcleish, league position, future ambition of the club and sign because we have a nice training ground.

The things that matter are the same and like at the end of doug's reign we are heading in one direction.

Yes, the youths coming through now are better. Gabby and Cahill are good, definitely, but from what I've seen Clark is better now than Cahill was at the same age. Weimann looks being able to become a more all round and better striker. Gardner the younger is a lot better than Gardner the older. And then there was Ridgewell, Davis, Whittingham and a few more who were at best one trick ponys. Herd and Lichaj have done more for us during their short time here than many of those players. As have Bannan and Albrighton, though I'm still not too sure about them. But they are better than the youths coming through then. And whilst those won the FA cup our youth of today got to the quarter final in the next gen cup and if you're to believe the reports should've reached the semi final too. Harder or easier tournament? Probably both.

About BH, that's if you think that it's only improved to get players coming here. It's not, obviously. You don't build a high tech training ground just to make players come to you. It's to help the players get better and having a better chance to get injured players back sooner. If it's helped us to sign players, fine, but that's more of a positive bonus. And compare that to when Ellis was here and he wouldn't even water the pitch so it was hard as a rock getting people injured, then even you can't deny that it was far worse at the time. And if you don't realise the importance of all this I guess it's just because your blinded hate against Lerner.

[Villarocker]

When I first read about McLeish being linked with the Villa job I wrote a very long email to the Villa through the official site. I addressed it to Randy and asked - no - pleaded with him to not make the biggest mistake of his Villa stewardship. I explained my reasons why, none of which included the infamous "because he managed the Blues" and also explained why it had nothing to do with that fact. I said that it was simply because the man is a failure in our league and plays unattractive football wherever he manages. I also wrote that I believed the younger players wouldn't get a look in under his management and would stagnate, like the younger players did at Blues. I also mentioned that his transfer history with previous clubs is uninspiring and that he wasn't certain to make better deals for us than Martin O'Neil did.

I explained to Randy that at that point he was still seen as some kind of saviour/hero for our club by the vast majority of fans. I said that one managerial disappointment in Gerard Houllier could be forgiven but to employ McLeish, especially when fans are protesting against it, would only end in disaster. I warned him that McLeish would survive to face another day at another club. But, for Randy, it would be different because he would still be here to face the wrath of the fans!

I asked Randy why he would want to risk his cult status with the fans over such a poor manager as McLeish. I warned that if all this went the way we feared it would, the fans would turn their vitriol towards him. judging by some of the comments on this thread - it has started already!!

[Big_John_10]

There's a world of difference. Doug wouldn't even finish the rebuild of BH. The infrastructure. Well, kind of all what Blandy said yesterday. And all this makes it easier for us to rise again and get out of this mess we're in.

And I don't know if it's down to Lerner or not, but the youth set up we have today is a lot better than it was during Ellis' days.

Is the youth today a lot better?

Didn't we win the FA youth cup while doug was in charge?

Aren't Cahill and gabby products of that youth system?

The training ground is a big improvement but it's hardly the most important thing. We were able to sign good players in the past without it and I doubt a single player will ignore Mcleish, league position, future ambition of the club and sign because we have a nice training ground.

The things that matter are the same and like at the end of doug's reign we are heading in one direction.

Yes, the youths coming through now are better. Gabby and Cahill are good, definitely, but from what I've seen Clark is better now than Cahill was at the same age. Weimann looks being able to become a more all round and better striker. Gardner the younger is a lot better than Gardner the older. And then there was Ridgewell, Davis, Whittingham and a few more who were at best one trick ponys. Herd and Lichaj have done more for us during their short time here than many of those players. As have Bannan and Albrighton, though I'm still not too sure about them. But they are better than the youths coming through then. And whilst those won the FA cup our youth of today got to the quarter final in the next gen cup and if you're to believe the reports should've reached the semi final too. Harder or easier tournament? Probably both.

About BH, that's if you think that it's only improved to get players coming here. It's not, obviously. You don't build a high tech training ground just to make players come to you. It's to help the players get better and having a better chance to get injured players back sooner. If it's helped us to sign players, fine, but that's more of a positive bonus. And compare that to when Ellis was here and he wouldn't even water the pitch so it was hard as a rock getting people injured, then even you can't deny that it was far worse at the time. And if you don't realise the importance of all this I guess it's just because your blinded hate against Lerner.

I've said it's important and does matter but it's not one of the main things. I'm sure it was also done knowing full well it would add value when it comes to selling the club. It's improved but has it helped lots? Have our performances improved? Has our league position improved? It's hardly having a massive effect on the things that really matter at a football club.

Your opinion on youth is clearly just an opinion and trying to back Lerner by claiming Clarke is better than Cahill at this point in his career is massively clutching at straws.

[Voinjama]

When I first read about McLeish being linked with the Villa job I wrote a very long email to the Villa through the official site. I addressed it to Randy and asked - no - pleaded with him to not make the biggest mistake of his Villa stewardship. I explained my reasons why, none of which included the infamous "because he managed the Blues" and also explained why it had nothing to do with that fact. I said that it was simply because the man is a failure in our league and plays unattractive football wherever he manages. I also wrote that I believed the younger players wouldn't get a look in under his management and would stagnate, like the younger players did at Blues. I also mentioned that his transfer history with previous clubs is uninspiring and that he wasn't certain to make better deals for us than Martin O'Neil did.

I explained to Randy that at that point he was still seen as some kind of saviour/hero for our club by the vast majority of fans. I said that one managerial disappointment in Gerard Houllier could be forgiven but to employ McLeish, especially when fans are protesting against it, would only end in disaster. I warned him that McLeish would survive to face another day at another club. But, for Randy, it would be different because he would still be here to face the wrath of the fans!

I asked Randy why he would want to risk his cult status with the fans over such a poor manager as McLeish. I warned that if all this went the way we feared it would, the fans would turn their vitriol towards him. judging by some of the comments on this thread - it has started already!!

Did you get a response?

[chappy]

When I first read about McLeish being linked with the Villa job I wrote a very long email to the Villa through the official site. I addressed it to Randy and asked - no - pleaded with him to not make the biggest mistake of his Villa stewardship. I explained my reasons why, none of which included the infamous "because he managed the Blues" and also explained why it had nothing to do with that fact. I said that it was simply because the man is a failure in our league and plays unattractive football wherever he manages. I also wrote that I believed the younger players wouldn't get a look in under his management and would stagnate, like the younger players did at Blues. I also mentioned that his transfer history with previous clubs is uninspiring and that he wasn't certain to make better deals for us than Martin O'Neil did.

I explained to Randy that at that point he was still seen as some kind of saviour/hero for our club by the vast majority of fans. I said that one managerial disappointment in Gerard Houllier could be forgiven but to employ McLeish, especially when fans are protesting against it, would only end in disaster. I warned him that McLeish would survive to face another day at another club. But, for Randy, it would be different because he would still be here to face the wrath of the fans!

I asked Randy why he would want to risk his cult status with the fans over such a poor manager as McLeish. I warned that if all this went the way we feared it would, the fans would turn their vitriol towards him. judging by some of the comments on this thread - it has started already!!

I bet they didn't print out yours and put it in the safe

[KHV]

There's a world of difference. Doug wouldn't even finish the rebuild of BH. The infrastructure. Well, kind of all what Blandy said yesterday. And all this makes it easier for us to rise again and get out of this mess we're in.

And I don't know if it's down to Lerner or not, but the youth set up we have today is a lot better than it was during Ellis' days.

Is the youth today a lot better?

Didn't we win the FA youth cup while doug was in charge?

Aren't Cahill and gabby products of that youth system?

The training ground is a big improvement but it's hardly the most important thing. We were able to sign good players in the past without it and I doubt a single player will ignore Mcleish, league position, future ambition of the club and sign because we have a nice training ground.

The things that matter are the same and like at the end of doug's reign we are heading in one direction.

Yes, the youths coming through now are better. Gabby and Cahill are good, definitely, but from what I've seen Clark is better now than Cahill was at the same age. Weimann looks being able to become a more all round and better striker. Gardner the younger is a lot better than Gardner the older. And then there was Ridgewell, Davis, Whittingham and a few more who were at best one trick ponys. Herd and Lichaj have done more for us during their short time here than many of those players. As have Bannan and Albrighton, though I'm still not too sure about them. But they are better than the youths coming through then. And whilst those won the FA cup our youth of today got to the quarter final in the next gen cup and if you're to believe the reports should've reached the semi final too. Harder or easier tournament? Probably both.

About BH, that's if you think that it's only improved to get players coming here. It's not, obviously. You don't build a high tech training ground just to make players come to you. It's to help the players get better and having a better chance to get injured players back sooner. If it's helped us to sign players, fine, but that's more of a positive bonus. And compare that to when Ellis was here and he wouldn't even water the pitch so it was hard as a rock getting people injured, then even you can't deny that it was far worse at the time. And if you don't realise the importance of all this I guess it's just because your blinded hate against Lerner.

Id rather not have a state of the art training complex and be playing in the premier league than to have a state of the art training ground and be playing in the championship with a crippling debt in excess of £200m

[b23avfc]

Flip me. Dougie boy sold off our most successful team and got us relegated. This poor Randy fella has a long way to go yet. I'm staying with the fact he bought this fool in all good faith. A gamble that hasn't worked out. But he's new at PL stuff.

[CI]

We won the FA Youth Cup in 1980 I recall

Robert Hopkins, Noel Blake, Mark Walters, Kevin Poole

Honest bunch of lads (apart from Noel ;-) )

[thetrees]

We won the FA Youth Cup in 1980 I recall

Robert Hopkins, Noel Blake, Mark Walters, Kevin Poole

Honest bunch of lads (apart from Noel ;-) )

And of course Ellis wasn't involved with the club at that time.

[briny_ear]

Our youth set up has been pretty good for quite a while - at least 20 years - and I don't see that it's any better or worse now than it was in Before-Lerner times.

I'm not aware of him having done anything specific about the youth set up but no doubt someone will leap to correct me if that's not right.

[Pelle]

There's a world of difference. Doug wouldn't even finish the rebuild of BH. The infrastructure. Well, kind of all what Blandy said yesterday. And all this makes it easier for us to rise again and get out of this mess we're in.

And I don't know if it's down to Lerner or not, but the youth set up we have today is a lot better than it was during Ellis' days.

Is the youth today a lot better?

Didn't we win the FA youth cup while doug was in charge?

Aren't Cahill and gabby products of that youth system?

The training ground is a big improvement but it's hardly the most important thing. We were able to sign good players in the past without it and I doubt a single player will ignore Mcleish, league position, future ambition of the club and sign because we have a nice training ground.

The things that matter are the same and like at the end of doug's reign we are heading in one direction.

Yes, the youths coming through now are better. Gabby and Cahill are good, definitely, but from what I've seen Clark is better now than Cahill was at the same age. Weimann looks being able to become a more all round and better striker. Gardner the younger is a lot better than Gardner the older. And then there was Ridgewell, Davis, Whittingham and a few more who were at best one trick ponys. Herd and Lichaj have done more for us during their short time here than many of those players. As have Bannan and Albrighton, though I'm still not too sure about them. But they are better than the youths coming through then. And whilst those won the FA cup our youth of today got to the quarter final in the next gen cup and if you're to believe the reports should've reached the semi final too. Harder or easier tournament? Probably both.

About BH, that's if you think that it's only improved to get players coming here. It's not, obviously. You don't build a high tech training ground just to make players come to you. It's to help the players get better and having a better chance to get injured players back sooner. If it's helped us to sign players, fine, but that's more of a positive bonus. And compare that to when Ellis was here and he wouldn't even water the pitch so it was hard as a rock getting people injured, then even you can't deny that it was far worse at the time. And if you don't realise the importance of all this I guess it's just because your blinded hate against Lerner.

I've said it's important and does matter but it's not one of the main things. I'm sure it was also done knowing full well it would add value when it comes to selling the club. It's improved but has it helped lots? Have our performances improved? Has our league position improved? It's hardly having a massive effect on the things that really matter at a football club.

Your opinion on youth is clearly just an opinion and trying to back Lerner by claiming Clarke is better than Cahill at this point in his career is massively clutching at straws.

First of all it's very hard to measure the omportance of our training facilities, but there's a huge different between one of the best training facilities in the world and one where they don't even water the pitches, wouldn't you agree? There is very much of the difference between Randy and Ellis. One put big money in to improve BH and VP whilst the other couldn't even bare to make them playable.

Randy's made his misstakes, appointing AML probably the biggest one along with giving MON too free reigns. But on the other hand, had he tried to halt the rising wages meaning MON couldn't buy the players he wanted then MON would probably, well, almost certainly, had left there and then, and Randy would've got massive critics from the fans. But those are IMO his two biggest misstakes. Now we're paying for it. And I too think it would be another big misstake if he doesn't fire AML at least after the season and already now is looking for his replacement. But those are still inferior to what Ellis did.

Second of all I didn't back Lerner by claiming that Clark is better today than Cahill was at the same age. I said that I didn't know whether it was down to Lerner or not, but for me there's no doubt that Clark is better. Cahill was very much fighting and throwing himself in to defend, giving his all than the calm, always in position classic defender I like. Similar with their feet, and maybe Cahill was a bit better on the head. I said the same things when he was here, so no hindsight. And the times I've seen Clark I've seen much more in him than in Cahill. Of course time will tell and of course it's my opinion. But that was also only two of the players I compared. The most even two at that.

[Denis_B]

The youth production line is little different, strings of average players being produced.

[blandy]

Where he's got things horribly wrong is in managerial appointments and in not enough control over finances early on

So basically, in terms of the football club, everything he has responsibility for

They are major, particularly the manager part, but they're not everything, are they? And he's rectifying the finances, albeit painfully.

There are other things that aren't good (communication for one) - though if you dig a big hole by appointing a numpty, and get bad results as a consequence, maybe for once it is better to Shut up for a bit.

Some things as has been said are are much better ( structure, for example). Sure they're maybe dull stuff, but they do matter as well. And they wouldn't have been better under HDE. We'd have gone down and be in a far worse position than we are now, and not had the good years we have had under RL.

He's been a victim of his own inexperience in owning a football club, as was Ellis in running one when he took over 30 odd yrs ago. Ellis took us directly downwards, Randy took us upwards and then back to not much better than when he started.

The finances, as the money is nearly all owed to the man who owns the club, it's kind of him that's down on the deal, rather than the club being in hoc to the banks. He's the one paying financially (in both senses of the word) for the mess of the wages, not you or I - the value of the Club, that he wins has been hit by the debt - he'll not get the money back if he sells.

The worry is if he were to decide to stop funding the losses completely and just give up on the thing all together. There's no sign of that, quite the opposite, but it's why he is rightly re-setting the finances, because he is not able to indefinitely finance a loss making enterprise. Like Oil tankers things turn round slowly.