makouns_grin Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 You can give a big club a run for their money in games without having big names. Look at Norwich at Old Trafford, or Swansea at home against Manure as well. These are teams who haven't got the best squads in terms of value, but still take the game to the opposition. Under McLeish we roll over. How long have those respective managers been at those clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanisgod Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Under McLeish we roll over. yes we do and it hurts to watch but what's your point? Truth is like the Norwich's of the league Villa are no longer expected to get results from these games, what difference dooes it make if we have a go or get rolled over, it's a results game and until results get bad enough McLeish's position will remain safe. Generally it takes popular opinion and something else in order to persuade the club to sack a manager, at the moment we dont have the something else, in fact Villa Park is not even that hostile to McLeish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Under McLeish we roll over. yes we do and it hurts to watch but what's your point? Truth is like the Norwich's of the league Villa are no longer expected to get results from these games, what difference dooes it make if we have a go or get rolled over, it's a results game and until results get bad enough McLeish's position will remain safe. Generally it takes popular opinion and something else in order to persuade the club to sack a manager, at the moment we dont have the something else, in fact Villa Park is not even that hostile to McLeish. A massive difference. So we should just go into a game expecting to lose? If that is the case none of these players should be playing professional football at any level and the same goes for the manager. No one is expecting results from these games, but if it is so cut and dried what is the point in playing at all? I think my 'point' is pretty clear to be honest. We roll over against these teams, don't even bother try and get a result. Manure were there for the taking at Villa Park (the worst United team in many a year) and we didn't even make it hard for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 in fact Villa Park is not even that hostile to McLeish. YET! But as sure as Christmas comes every year it will be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 21, 2011 what difference dooes it make if we have a go or get rolled over A massive difference. a) Pay to come and watch Villa try to keep the score down at home to Man U or Pay to come and see Villa try their utmost to have a real go at home to Man Utd. Contrast the games v Man U at home last season and this season. Last season we had a right old go, despite injuries and so on and could have won, but ended up with a 2-2 draw, despite, on paper looking to have no chance. There was a good atmosphere, a buzz and despite losing a 2 goal lead people were content overall. This season, we just rolled over and let them have the points. No atmosphere, no buzz, no points and no wish to see that kind of performance again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 21, 2011 Nail on head Pete. The time of year, the fixtures and people having bought tickets months ago are at the moment masking the impact of McLeish and his horrible approach to the game. Come the New Year attendances will drop significantly I suspect and it will largely be because of this roll over attitude more than anything else. There is a big backlash coming both McLeish Nd the clubs way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDrums Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 You can give a big club a run for their money in games without having big names. Look at Norwich at Old Trafford, or Swansea at home against Manure as well. These are teams who haven't got the best squads in terms of value, but still take the game to the opposition. Under McLeish we roll over. How long have those respective managers been at those clubs? What has that got to do with it? Rodgers has been there since 2010 and Lambert has been there since 2009. When Rodgers came in he took over a crap Swansea had and had them playing attacking football and finished them in 8th, a position they'd only have dreamed of before he came in. Lambert came in and got Norwich promoted from League 1 and immediately the year after the Championship, whilst playing decent, attacking football. So, yeah, what exactly is your point? They both came in and immediately did a brilliant job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.Daley Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 what difference dooes it make if we have a go or get rolled over A massive difference. a) Pay to come and watch Villa try to keep the score down at home to Man U or Pay to come and see Villa try their utmost to have a real go at home to Man Utd. Contrast the games v Man U at home last season and this season. Last season we had a right old go, despite injuries and so on and could have won, but ended up with a 2-2 draw, despite, on paper looking to have no chance. There was a good atmosphere, a buzz and despite losing a 2 goal lead people were content overall. This season, we just rolled over and let them have the points. No atmosphere, no buzz, no points and no wish to see that kind of performance again. This. Football still is an entertainment business, in other words without an audience its nothing. Lerner knew 100% by appointing McLeish he was taking a massive gamble, a gamble against the fans. So yes by getting in another manager might not make us win more games, but at least it might give us some hope, some indication that there is a plan, a strategy to how we will play in 6, 12 months time. I would love to see Villa play perfect football and win game after game, failing that perfect football, failing that some **** passion to win a game (especially at home) regardless who the opposition is. I would kill to wear claret and blue, why are the players not showing that passion and drive...McLeish. A draw is now a victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Exactly, playing not to lose is a cowardly and piss poor way to manage. Look at Stoke (putting shit football aside for a minute). They've lost 1 more game than us this season but sit a nice 5 points above us in the league. They at least have a go. It can mean the difference between staying in the league an not. And even if we avoid relegation, which I expect, from financial perspective we should be aiming to finish as high as possible as this will lead to increased prize money for the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Stoke have had a good four game run, with a lot of luck thrown in, with specific reference to the Spurs game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Stoke have had a good four game run, with a lot of luck thrown in, with specific reference to the Spurs game. Yeah but even if we had Stoke's luck it would make no difference because we rarely have more than 2 players in the opposition half when attacking. Stoke at least attacked Spurs in that game, rode their luck massively, but were in a position to score 2 goals. When we played Spurs & Man Utd I don't think we had 2 shots. Heskey's doesn't count cos for something to be classified a shot it must at least go out for a goalkick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyOne Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Or a throwing. Can't believe we're still paying his wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegiddygambler Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The thing that amazes me about the Pro Lernerites is that they refuse to see Lerner should be criticised for ensuring we live under these "tight financial constraints" He pissed his and Villa's cash up the wall recklessly. He wants it back ASAP so ASTON VILLA must fall to pieces. Oh yes we must feel so priviledged to have he and his office junior Faulkner looking after us. What amazes me is where your information must come from. Erm how is Lerner trying to recover any of the money he spent, the only way he'll ever do that is by selling the club for a profit. What he is doing is ensuring that our expenditure is in line with income, something all clubs will eventually have to do if these UEFA regs are ever enforced. As far as I'm concerned he didn't piss anything away recklessly he had a plan which in hindsight (which really is a wonderful thing) was always likely to fail. Lookat what we were when he came in you dont go from that to buying world class players overnight, well not without the kind of money Citeh threw at the game and even then it took a few seasons of Robinhos, Barry's, Lescot's before you got the Agueros, Silvas, Toures of the game. Villa is not falling to pieces, even when we were drunk on his spending we were having our better players poached and replacing with inferior or unproven players, we had a manager at least half of these forum boards wanted sacked and were still not regularly selling out Villa Park. We've dropped down a few runs of the ladder, or stood still and let others overtake us but we're not even close to falling to pieces. And as shown in Jan last year when the money is need the money is there, it's just not going to be there as a matter of course because we cant sustain it and not many owners could. Where did you buy them rose tinted glasses from? I want a pair. Money will be found.................I'll hold you to that statement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegiddygambler Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Stoke have had a good four game run, with a lot of luck thrown in, with specific reference to the Spurs game. Stoke have drawn at home against Utd & Chelsea and beat Spurs and Liverpool at home. They also won away at Everton. Give them credit, it's not luck, I'm sure they could cite a game where they were terribnly unlucky and lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The thing that amazes me about the Pro Lernerites is that they refuse to see Lerner should be criticised for ensuring we live under these "tight financial constraints" He pissed his and Villa's cash up the wall recklessly. He wants it back ASAP so ASTON VILLA must fall to pieces. Oh yes we must feel so priviledged to have he and his office junior Faulkner looking after us. What amazes me is where your information must come from. Erm how is Lerner trying to recover any of the money he spent, the only way he'll ever do that is by selling the club for a profit. What he is doing is ensuring that our expenditure is in line with income, something all clubs will eventually have to do if these UEFA regs are ever enforced. As far as I'm concerned he didn't piss anything away recklessly he had a plan which in hindsight (which really is a wonderful thing) was always likely to fail. Lookat what we were when he came in you dont go from that to buying world class players overnight, well not without the kind of money Citeh threw at the game and even then it took a few seasons of Robinhos, Barry's, Lescot's before you got the Agueros, Silvas, Toures of the game. Villa is not falling to pieces, even when we were drunk on his spending we were having our better players poached and replacing with inferior or unproven players, we had a manager at least half of these forum boards wanted sacked and were still not regularly selling out Villa Park. We've dropped down a few runs of the ladder, or stood still and let others overtake us but we're not even close to falling to pieces. And as shown in Jan last year when the money is need the money is there, it's just not going to be there as a matter of course because we cant sustain it and not many owners could. Where did you buy them rose tinted glasses from? I want a pair. Money will be found.................I'll hold you to that statement! lol!! wow there's still a believer in the ranks. Enjoy it till the penny drops my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Seems to me that the penny has very much dropped. Stanthemanisgod appears to realise the importance of what has happened regarding spending. It was either that or go bust. What i would like to know is when the penny is going to drop with the many people on here who somehow fail to see that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Ok McLeish is a poor manager, I'm not arguing against that. The question is so what? What do we do next? Sack McLeish, ok now who comes in? Do Hughes or Benitez want the job? Would Martinez be tempted to jump ship ahead of another relegation battle? But what does that mean for the side? Martinez would not get vastly better results for Villa than he does at Wigam with the playing staff we have at our disposal. Jan is a notoriously diificult time to buy players, and even if we did have he money to spend you cant gut hlaf the first team in Jan and expect results to come instantly. Are people really suggesting that Lerner's search for a new manager consisted of only McLeish, McLaren and Martinez? For whatever reason it appears they were the only 3 who showed any real, i.e not purely tabloid speculation, interest in taking the job. The board instead of taking the easy option (McLaren) seemingly grew a set of balls and made what was an unpoopular decision to take McLeish from SHA, why? It seems to me that McLeish has come into the club with a clear mandate, to keep us around mid-table without having any significant resources. So far, regardless of what we think about the man, his tactics or the players, he's doing just that. We're 10th almost half way through the season. If we were rooted to the bottom of the table, getting beat by fellow relegation candidtates then yeah I'd expect any responsible owner to take action. But we're not, the only issue there appears to be is the management of the fans expectations, and we seem to want top 6 on a mid-table budget. So tell me where is this apocalyptic mess so many on here refer to? That is one whole lot of presumption without much by way of fact. Are you Paul Faulkner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegiddygambler Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The issue is Lerner foolishly pissed his money away, now he wants Villa to get it back for him. We all understand the financial circumstances the idiot has brought upon us. He spent like a fool and should suffer the consequences. Not sell off our assets to get a bit back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I have no problems with cutting back. But to have to play negative cowardly football, much like Blues did last season, is not acceptable. The issue is not Lerner's unwillingness to back McLeish, as he has done this for the right reasons. However, not only are we being asset stripped to a certain degree we also have a manager who's track record is shit. Even the media are starting to pick up on the negative playing style, which is exactly the same as he played at Blues. Lerner is trying to do the right things for our club. If he really wants to do the right thing he should boot McLeish for no other reason than he should never have got the job in the 1st place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowDoINotLikeThat Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Agreed jacketspuds. Another irritating thing was if we are cutting back etc -the McLeish appointment wasn't even a cheap appointment. We actually spent lot of money getting the clown to the club in first place and hes one of the best paid (in top 7) managers in whole league . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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