The Randy Lerner thread

[bose]

This is surely good news (if true) anyway you look at it.

 

Either Randy is clearing debts or we are getting a cash injection. But as this is Aston Villa I think it's safe to not have too much expectations and err on the side of caution.

[Big_John_10]

Many of us thought that the logical plan was to clear out the shite we had and then reinvest and there has been little evidence to suggest otherwise

There's also been little evidence to suggest we will start to invest a competitive amount of money.

Let's not forget last January when we were desperate.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Many of us thought that the logical plan was to clear out the shite we had and then reinvest and there has been little evidence to suggest otherwise

There's also been little evidence to suggest we will start to invest a competitive amount of money.

Let's not forget last January when we were desperate.

Last January was a long time ago and many millions of wages ago. They were never going to buckle so early.

What kind of evidence could they give? I'm not saying you're wrong.

[BOF]

If the plan is to clear out the shite and then once that's done, re-invest, it's stupid to pick a point midway through the clear-out (i.e. before it's done) and then somehow cite that as evidence that we won't re-invest.

[thetrees]

 

Many of us thought that the logical plan was to clear out the shite we had and then reinvest and there has been little evidence to suggest otherwise

There's also been little evidence to suggest we will start to invest a competitive amount of money.

Let's not forget last January when we were desperate.

 

What is competitive?

 

A volume of money, or a certain level of fee per player?

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Many of us thought that the logical plan was to clear out the shite we had and then reinvest and there has been little evidence to suggest otherwise

There's also been little evidence to suggest we will start to invest a competitive amount of money.

Let's not forget last January when we were desperate.

What is competitive?

A volume of money, or a certain level of fee per player?

In my opinion being able to compete at the same level as Swansea is a good place to start, pushing on from there financially competing with Southampton/Newcastle is certainly feasible. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a club of this size to be in and around the top 8 rather than battling relegation each year.

[Dodgyknees]

Many of us thought that the logical plan was to clear out the shite we had and then reinvest and there has been little evidence to suggest otherwise

There's also been little evidence to suggest we will start to invest a competitive amount of money.

Let's not forget last January when we were desperate.

What is competitive?

A volume of money, or a certain level of fee per player?

In my opinion being able to compete at the same level as Swansea is a good place to start, pushing on from there financially competing with Southampton/Newcastle is certainly feasible. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a club of this size to be in and around the top 8 rather than battling relegation each year.

Exact.

[villan_007]

 

Many of us thought that the logical plan was to clear out the shite we had and then reinvest and there has been little evidence to suggest otherwise

There's also been little evidence to suggest we will start to invest a competitive amount of money.

Let's not forget last January when we were desperate.

 

 

How could there be if we were still in the clear out phase? it would be now (still unklikely for me) or the big test would be the summer window.

[Risso]

When will the document in question appear on companies house?

 

It is already, and has been for a few days.

 

Personally I think it's to clear the old loan notes, but there's no way to know at present.  It won't make any difference overall in any case, as we'd just be swapping interest free debt for equity, which as it's all Lerner, wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the club itself.  It would just be Lerner circulating cash around his various interests.  It could be a brand new investor of course, but somehow I doubt that too.

[Big_John_10]

When will the document in question appear on companies house?

It is already, and has been for a few days.

Personally I think it's to clear the old loan notes, but there's no way to know at present. It won't make any difference overall in any case, as we'd just be swapping interest free debt for equity, which as it's all Lerner, wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the club itself. It would just be Lerner circulating cash around his various interests. It could be a brand new investor of course, but somehow I doubt that too.

So not as promising as first thought?

Many of us thought that the logical plan was to clear out the shite we had and then reinvest and there has been little evidence to suggest otherwise

There's also been little evidence to suggest we will start to invest a competitive amount of money.

Let's not forget last January when we were desperate.

What is competitive?

A volume of money, or a certain level of fee per player?

In my opinion being able to compete at the same level as Swansea is a good place to start, pushing on from there financially competing with Southampton/Newcastle is certainly feasible. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a club of this size to be in and around the top 8 rather than battling relegation each year.

Yep I'd go along with that.

[blandy]

Personally I think it's to clear the old loan notes, but there's no way to know at present.  It won't make any difference overall in any case, as we'd just be swapping interest free debt for equity, which as it's all Lerner, wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the club itself.  It would just be Lerner circulating cash around his various interests.  It could be a brand new investor of course, but somehow I doubt that too.

 

I think it makes a big difference, in a small way.

 

Firstly, the club in terms of rules and being an entity owes 90 million quid less to creditors than it did before the money was put in.To my way of thinking that's a very good thing, and seems to indicate that the money Randy borrowed to fund early spending, is no longer owed to (presumably) the Lerner trust. A large sum of debt is cleared from the books. He's clearly taken responsibility for his financial decision and the football club is not paying the price, he has done so personally, which is the honourable way to operate, a way of integrity.

 

While I share your view that it's unlikely to lead to suddenly altered spending patterns on players or wages etc. it's still a good thing, in the long term think.

[Houlston]

Could it be that this debt has to be cleared first before any great amount is spent on the team itself?

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Could it be that this debt has to be cleared first before any great amount is spent on the team itself?

That seems to be the general feeling.

Regardless of how you swing it, somebody, presumably Randy Lerner as I can't imagine it have being kept so quiet otherwise, just pumped £90m into the football club. Even if it was just to pay off the debt to his own trust fund, to be balanced can only be a good thing for us.

[Houlston]

 

Could it be that this debt has to be cleared first before any great amount is spent on the team itself?

Regardless of how you swing it, somebody, presumably Randy Lerner as I can't imagine it have being kept so quiet otherwise, just pumped £90m into the football club. 

 

Usually to the left but at times I tuck it to the right, depends how I'm feeling, I'm carefree like that.

[blandy]

Before this happened I wrote this

The club doesn't really owe the owner any money for his spending in any meaningful way. Effectively, all he's done is increase the amount of money he's paid for the club...it only really affects the profit or loss Lerner will make when he sells the club. Ultimately, it's his problem rather than ours.

I wish that were so. I don't think it quite is though. Money borrowed from the Family Trust has to be paid back. He could pay it back from his own money, but that lent money is not "his". I think I'm right in saying that the people who run the trust legally have to safeguard the money it holds. So yes they can agree to lend it out, but they also have a duty to recover it.

If that's right, then it'll have to be paid back. I think what he did was write off all the interest on the loans, by paying it himself, rather than the club having to pay it back, but I still think the actual capital will have to be repaid, and that'll (I think) come from operating profit. In other words, now the wages are under control, the profit the club makes will in part if not in full go to paying back those loans, and probably over a period of years, unless he either sells up, or decides to pay it from his personal funds.

. Which was and is my thinking - by doing that last bit - paying it off himself, it meanspotentially the money the club makes could goto playingresources instead of being used to pay off the debt he's now paid off himself. That's a major, major plus.

[Enda]

 

When will the document in question appear on companies house?

 

It is already, and has been for a few days.

 

Personally I think it's to clear the old loan notes, but there's no way to know at present.  It won't make any difference overall in any case, as we'd just be swapping interest free debt for equity, which as it's all Lerner, wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the club itself.  It would just be Lerner circulating cash around his various interests.  It could be a brand new investor of course, but somehow I doubt that too.

 

 

This is strange.

 

Assuming Villa has to pay taxes to HM Revenue, debt should be preferred to equity. Was it always an interest free loan? I thought we were paying interest of a few million each year on it. That's much better for Villa than paying a dividend to an equity holder.

 

So moving from debt to equity seems like something is up.

[Big_John_10]

While I share your view that it's unlikely to lead to suddenly altered spending patterns on players or wages etc. it's still a good thing, in the long term think.

Surely its only a good thing long term if it does lead to an increase in the level of spending.

[blandy]

There aren't any dividends being paid. And the interest was already covered by Randy.

I've no idea what he will do in the future, but on the money side, he's stumped up the cost personally for his decisions, whether people think they have been good ones or bad. That gets him a lot of kudos in my book.

[blandy]

 

While I share your view that it's unlikely to lead to suddenly altered spending patterns on players or wages etc. it's still a good thing, in the long term think.

Surely its only a good thing long term if it does lead to an increase in the level of spending.

 

It's subjective, but no, not to me. It's good regardless.

have loads of debt and spend lots is to me worse than have little or no debt and spend accordingto what the CLUB (as opposed to owner, personally) can afford.

The caveat is that the owner is (to me ) obliged to do everything possible they can to improve the Club's ability to generate money to get the fans as good a team to watch. To run the club for the long term as well as short term benefit of the club.

Personally I've never asked or demanded any owner or shareholder plough their own money in to be spent on players. I want the club to grow and do it from it's own funds. More Arsenal's model than Man City, if you like.

[Big_John_10]

That gets him a lot of kudos in my book.

Fair enough, I can't give him kudos if this action has no impact on the playing side otherwise its just a very wealthy man sorting out his finances with money he can easily afford.