The Randy Lerner thread

[Bunnski]

The thing that really bothers me about Lerner at the moment is his total indifference towards the club. I think all he does is get his cheque book out and pay the losses that he has made by his mistakes. I don't think he cares about whether the club is successful or not.

 

We had the future King of England at the club on Saturday and he couldn't even turn up for that?

 

As BJ10 has stated  there is one constant during our current demise and that Lerner himself.

 

We had MON buying overpriced and overpaid players but at least we had 3 of those players give back a hansome return. He then made the most baffling appointment I had seen at the time bringing back Houllier into top flight football after faffing about for weeks. He French fool then tried his best to send us down and we made no return on the players he brought. He then trumped himself on baffling appointments and paid our rivals to bring in a relegation specailist who again made poor signings who we are still lumbered with for a couple more years on big money?

 

Now it seems that he has appointed PL purely for his ability to spot a bargain every once in a while.

 

People say we are building for the future? What futures that? A future of playing dour football with mostly second rate players with the odd gem every now and again who will look to leave us after a season?Brilliant legacy Mr Lerner!

Appointed Lambert purely for his ability to spot a bargain once in a while...?  lol you trollin?

[Big_John_10]

That's fine but that doesn't explain why it was easier for Doug. I could understand that point if Doug was the one billionaire that you mention but he wasn't.

I get that it's a lack of understanding. I've tried to help.

I understand fine it's just a rubbish point.

You're talking in general terms about the two different times which is pointless when we're specifically talking about Doug and Lerner and this club.

No one would have to keep pointing it out to you if you didn't keep insisting Doug was somehow better than Lerner for the club.

Debt free, usually finishing in the top 8, won a cup and played in Europe. That's the Ellis premiership years.

We'd love to be that club now.

[Zatman]

 

 

 

 

That's fine but that doesn't explain why it was easier for Doug. I could understand that point if Doug was the one billionaire that you mention but he wasn't.

I get that it's a lack of understanding. I've tried to help.

I understand fine it's just a rubbish point.

You're talking in general terms about the two different times which is pointless when we're specifically talking about Doug and Lerner and this club.

No one would have to keep pointing it out to you if you didn't keep insisting Doug was somehow better than Lerner for the club.

Debt free, usually finishing in the top 8, won a cup and played in Europe. That's the Ellis premiership years.

We'd love to be that club now.

 

 

the same club that couldnt afford a physio or afford to keep a player on loan 

[Big_John_10]

That's fine but that doesn't explain why it was easier for Doug. I could understand that point if Doug was the one billionaire that you mention but he wasn't.

I get that it's a lack of understanding. I've tried to help.

I understand fine it's just a rubbish point.

You're talking in general terms about the two different times which is pointless when we're specifically talking about Doug and Lerner and this club.

No one would have to keep pointing it out to you if you didn't keep insisting Doug was somehow better than Lerner for the club.

Debt free, usually finishing in the top 8, won a cup and played in Europe. That's the Ellis premiership years.

We'd love to be that club now.

the same club that couldnt afford a physio or afford to keep a player on loan

That was a point during that period. Any worse than being the club that hired McLeish?

[Zatman]

eh that was the end of his time in charge. If Doug was still here we would probably be a League 1 club

[Big_John_10]

eh that was the end of his time in charge. If Doug was still here we would probably be a League 1 club

There's no doubt it was good Doug left but what's that got to do with the club we were most of the time under him?

[BOF]

Latterly*, Ellis was in charge of Villa at a time when English football was experiencing an unprecedented injection of wealth with the introduction of the Premier League. The opportunity was there to establish us through savvy leadership as one of the very elite at the top of the table. Instead his model and his complete lack of investment in the club, other than that given to us and everyone else by the Premier League prize money, held us back and we completely missed the boat. In the end, Ellis' Villa were petering out badly and were heading out of the league. IMHO we wouldn't have lasted another season. We were in our death throes. As Zatman says, we couldn't even afford Eirik Bakke on loan from a lower league side. If Ellis was still in charge today we wouldn't be away to Southampton tonight, we'd probably be playing someone like the MK Dons. By all means criticise Lerner if you want to, but please don't paint Ellis out to be anything other than a parasitic chain around our neck whilst doing so.

* by which I mean after the period where he managed to return to the club and dismantle and relegate the European champions in the space of 5 years.

[Big_John_10]

And Lerner came into football when the wealth kept increasing. He also had a bigger personal fortune than a lot of other owners and there were no FFP rules in place.

While you argue doug's model made us miss the boat has Lerner's not done exactly the same? Difference is because of the way Doug ran us it was an easy fix, the mess Lerner put us in requires long term change and nearly cost us our premiership status for two consecutive seasons while also allowing other clubs to catch up or over take us.

Because of his mistakes we're now in a position where we have to aim to be the sort of club we mostly were under Doug.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Big_John_10

[BOF]

Where I disagree is that when I look 5 years down the line I don't fear for us under Lerner. I've often trotted out the 'upward curve' analogy but that's what I see when I look ahead. Under Ellis it became very apparent that he had neither the foresight nor the means to give us any vision for the club going forward. His Villa was an ever-decreasing circle and at its end had all but stopped dead. No-one is saying Lerner is perfect or that he hasn't made mistakes but it is not hyperbole to say had we not been sold when we were, we wouldn't be a Premier League team now.

[Richard]

 

 

 

That's fine but that doesn't explain why it was easier for Doug. I could understand that point if Doug was the one billionaire that you mention but he wasn't.

I get that it's a lack of understanding. I've tried to help.

I understand fine it's just a rubbish point.

You're talking in general terms about the two different times which is pointless when we're specifically talking about Doug and Lerner and this club.

No one would have to keep pointing it out to you if you didn't keep insisting Doug was somehow better than Lerner for the club.

 

I dont think Doug was better for the club than lerner

 

I also dont think Lerner is better for the club than Doug

[Morpheus]

In fairness I dont think anybody expected MON to throw a hissy fit and leave 5 days before start of season. He cant be blamed for that

Could be wrong but just before he left wasn't O'Neill quoted in saying that he looked around the training pitch and got the impression that the players hated him?

[dn1982]

It amazes me 7 years after Doug Ellis has gone people still go on about his time here. If you take just the Premier League years you don't do his time here justice!! Just like taking Lerners last 3 years as basis for judging him. Lerner has made mistakes and is hopefully rectifying them. Whilst MON time here was good it wasn't sustainable unless you get instant success. IMO Houllier was a good appointment unfortunately health issues came back to haunt him. The next bloke was a joke now I think he has hired a man who understands we need to build a club not just a team. For me the only real mistake was McLeish the others like letting the wage bill get out of control was a gamble which didn't pay off but I think we all enjoyed it at the time.

Looking forward next summer is when you can start criticising IMO as wage bill will be sorted a basic squad in place so we will need bigger and better players. It will be a watershed summer as both Lambert and Lerner won't have any excuses.

By the way it took Ellis 14 years to get to a final. Lerner did it in 4. In that 14 years he dismantled a club that won the European Cup. He also appointed Billy McNeill and Dr Jo. Enough said

[Pilchard]

If Ellis hadn't gone when he did, we wouldn't have had O'Neill (be that good or bad) and we certainly wouldn't have remained in the Premier League. The club was a mess - even more that the panicked mess of the last few years.

[Big_John_10]

even more that the panicked mess of the last few years.

How so?

[thetrees]

Debt free, usually finishing in the top 8, won a cup and played in Europe. That's the Ellis premiership years.

We'd love to be that club now.

Does a £25-30m overdraft count as being 'debt free'?

[LondonLax]

 

 

 

 

That's fine but that doesn't explain why it was easier for Doug. I could understand that point if Doug was the one billionaire that you mention but he wasn't.

I get that it's a lack of understanding. I've tried to help.

I understand fine it's just a rubbish point.

You're talking in general terms about the two different times which is pointless when we're specifically talking about Doug and Lerner and this club.

No one would have to keep pointing it out to you if you didn't keep insisting Doug was somehow better than Lerner for the club.

Debt free, usually finishing in the top 8, won a cup and played in Europe. That's the Ellis premiership years.

We'd love to be that club now.

 

 

Mate it is pretty simple and I don't know why everyone needs to spell it out for you but I will try one more time then leave this thread for a while. 

 

Who would you rather in charge of the club today, Lerner supporting the club with funds or Ellis taking money out of the club? The only rational answer is Lerner, we'd be a league 1 side if Ellis were continuing to run the club today.

 

Secondly, who would you rather running the club 10 years ago? Lerner pumping millions into the club (we'd be spending on a par with Man U if Lerner had been around in those days putting his money in) or Ellis sucking funds out of the side?

 

There is no possible way Ellis can come out as a better owner than Lerner.  

Edited December 4, 2013 by LondonLax

[Big_John_10]

Who would you rather in charge of the club today, Lerner supporting the club with funds or Ellis taking money out of the club?

You forgot to say supporting the club with loans and years ago when describing Lerner.

And with all this support what has Lerner delivered that Doug couldn't?

[Pilchard]

even more that the panicked mess of the last few years.

How so?

Where do we start? If you are genuinely interested I'll go back through some old stories etc but the squad was worse by a long, long way, no scouting funding or system (managers had to pay for flights scouting out of their own pockets) and then there is the famous story about in his final pre-season where Doug refused for the club to pay for insect repellent when they went of a pre season training camp.

Under Lerner, we've taken huge steps backwards after pushing ourselves forwards. Dare I say the bank balance is more important than the club. Under Doug - we weren't being run as a football club anymore. There were lower league teams with facilities and plans better than us.

[BOF]

Who would you rather in charge of the club today, Lerner supporting the club with funds or Ellis taking money out of the club?

You forgot to say supporting the club with loans and years ago when describing Lerner.

And with all this support what has Lerner delivered that Doug couldn't?

And you forgot to answer :-)

[Big_John_10]

To be honest it doesn't matter what the owner is doing.

If the owners putting in loads of cash and we're fighting relegation then it doesn't mean I'd be happy with it.

Ultimately under Doug in the prem we were a usual top 8 side, won a cup and played in Europe. I'd rather be that club than the one we've been the last 3 years regardless of the owner.