The Randy Lerner thread

[John_Lerwill]

I agree in the main part John. If I was lucky enough to be in charge I would do things differently, however, I am not going to lambast the club, one that don't forget we all love and want success for, for looking to work within our finances even if.they have me daily statements on how we are doing.

As I said and others agreed, the club are in a no win position.

In all honesty, Lancs, I don't think it's a question of "lambasting". I think that a football 'club' should continue to have the spirit of a club and in a very positive way. At the end of the day, those holding the reins have the final say, but at the same time the club ownership is dependent on the fans paying their entrance fees.

Those fans (customers if you will) should, perhaps, have an elected panel that meets with the board - on the basis of some form of consultation agreement - to at least discuss and find out what is the plan for the future and to put forward possible (alternative) solutions.

The fans, in the end, can vote with their feet if the club is not (in their opinion) doing the right things, and that situation is not far different from power held over business by trades unions in some countries.

If board/union consultation can work (e.g. in Germany) why can't board/fans consultation work? At least it would restore some notion of 'club' - as it was in those early months of 1969.

If the 'club' spirit were to be restored, all things become possible (as in 1969). True democracy always works.

There's no point in putting our heads in the sand, i.m.o. Remember Neville Chamberlain?!! (Perhaps not!).

[Richard]

In response to me I guess

No.

which means that you have in fact "missed the point by a mile"

then it doesn't fit the agenda / crusade you have been on for a while.

Interesting use of a label for what actually is an alternate opinion.

[LancsVillan]

In response to me I guess

No.

which means that you have in fact "missed the point by a mile"

then it doesn't fit the agenda / crusade you have been on for a while.

Interesting use of a label for what actually is an alternate opinion.

Ooh forgive me.... My point in reply and opinion ate still valid though.

[Denis_B]

On and on we go arguing when in reality we are all after the same thing - a successful football club, or at least one we THINK/BELIEVE will be successful.

The problem is RL has spectacularly shot himself in the foot again. We complain about lack of communication from the club because almost as soon as he bought out DE he sent in General K as his mouthpiece to open up that dialogue and keep us informed.

Now that was all well and good when things in the camp were rosey but now things have gone tits up (for whatever reason) the drawbridge is pulled up and we are totally kept in the dark.

RL hasn't even bothered to be at games, again some sort of reason might have been proffered but it hasn't been.

PF can only talk it seems once a year to the press and in between writes to ST holders and ignores the rest of us.

I honestly believe that this move by DE of getting in this man was a seriously massive movement forward but at John says we are really back where we started. At least under Doug as a shareholder I could slag him and his board of to their faces once a year - I can't even do that now

[blandy]

The approach to the communications really interests me.

For a few years under Eliis most of us said that he never communicated iwth the fans, that when he did it was condescending we never knew what our direction was or why, and we longed for the time when a decent owner would communicate properly and professionally with the fanbase.

Then we had lerner and in the initial stages he communicated well and everyone said how wonderful it was and refreshing that our owners were communicating with the fans and taking on board the fan in the decisions they made, we even had a board member on message boards interacting with fans and pointing them to Nicky Keye and wasn't that wonderful too. It was hailed as the way to go.

Now the communications are the same or worse actually than the Ellis years and yet people say that is OK and what should we expect anyway from an owner.

I just wish people would be consistent and criticise where it is due rather than support , seemingly, blindly

For my part, I felt that Ellis didn't communicate with us, he "communicated" at us - condescending as you say. We got, in latter years once we became a Plc the annual report for shareholders and the odd thing from Mark Ansell. It was mostly full of bunkum Doh! Did they really say that? :: VillaTalk :: and I said so. I had absolutely no time for the way Ellis ran the club. We're nowhere near that situation now. Years and years of blundering incompetence was how it seemed to me.

Anyway, where we are now, you're right, RL started off brilliantly in terms of just about everything he did. Comms included. It's changed now though. The letters we got from RL/PF were not particularly inspiring to say the least. They weren't written in "our" language. The old shareholders reports were by definition partly about finance, but the letters from Randy and Paul seemed also to be about finance, yet we're not a Plc anymore. There should, IMO, have been more about football and less about aims to be in the top 20 for turnover and so on. We're now fans, not shareholders.

Gen K cleared off the boards after the club got some stick for managerial appointments and and he rightly got some stick for telling us one thing when the exact opposite happened shortly after.

Where we are now in terms of trust and communication is not where we should be, in either direction.

We've seen player sales, unpopular managerial choices, and some dull and unchallenging football on the pitch, while prices have risen in a recession.

They bombard us with texts and e mails about tickets and merchandise, yet they say nothing to inspire us or make us want to spend our hard earned/ill-gotten cash. They do nothing to inspire us to spend our money on the club.

In my view it would really be of benefit all round if there was a clear message coming from the club. That's not the same as telling us confidential details, or revealing things they shouldn't. They need to communicate from the top. The lower level folk do a good job person to person, but it needs and overall umbrella message. Without that message and re-assurance people judge by actions and also start to speculate, and that creates more doubt amongst the fans as to where we're headed. questions get asked - "is Randy looking to sell, or is Randy looking to asset strip, or has he lost interest, or what?"

The Gen K message board stuff probably ran its course, but having been used to the board being able to listen to whatever rubbish/good comment we sent their way, it's now deathly quiet all round.

It'll only take a simple interview to sort it. It's overdue.

But RL is far from being another Ellis, happily.

[CI]

Wonder if he's flown back to Cleveland or if he's sticking around for 90 mins of wall to wall entertainment tomorrow

[John_Lerwill]

...The Gen K message board stuff probably ran its course, but having been used to the board being able to listen to whatever rubbish/good comment we sent their way, it's now deathly quiet all round.

It'll only take a simple interview to sort it. It's overdue.

But RL is far from being another Ellis, happily.

I'm with you all the way ... except saying that Doug was worse is not really getting anywhere, Peter, I'm sorry to say.

Richard, I thought, was succinct in saying that we had a bad communications situation before, and now we have it again. What was wrong with the meaning of Richard's message? It's the state of the situation that Richard was trying to get at.

May I suggest that all who agree that we have a bad communications situation now and that we also had one up to 2006 should k.i.s.s. and just agree on that? :winkold:

[Bazdavies79]

I just wish people would be consistent and criticise where it is due rather than support , seemingly, blindly

Who are these people? I think you're misunderstanding the arguments in this thread. Well, either that or I am.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Now the communications are the same or worse actually than the Ellis years and yet people say that is OK and what should we expect anyway from an owner.

I just wish people would be consistent and criticise where it is due rather than support , seemingly, blindly

Now the communications are the same or worse than the Ellis years, I wish people would be consistent and organise a protest. You know, like they used to.

[Denis_B]

I wish people would be consistent and organise a protest. You know, like they used to.

Probably because they can't be arsed anymore

[John_Lerwill]

I wish people would be consistent and organise a protest. You know, like they used to.

Probably because they can't be arsed anymore

fwiw, Denis, I'll give my take on this ...

I think a lot of people were so carried away with the euphoria of the first 3 or 4 years of RL's 'reign' that they're now bemused as to what's happening. They're probably expecting a phoenix-like resurgence by RL that will prove that the first 4 years were not a mirage.

Perhaps the league situation - if it's a poor one - at the end of this season, and if there's further deterioration in the playing staff (e.g. Bent leaving), may cause people to wake up and start wondering what can be done.

On the other hand, the world situation is becoming so serious I wonder whether what's happening down at t' Villa might seem like small fry by next summer.

[Denis_B]

As I said John people can't be arsed, for many reasons, the ones you allude are also a factor but many are just tired of it all.

[thetrees]

Unfortunately, and I doubt whether anyone thought it at the time, including me, the worst thing that happened to Randy Lerner and Aston Villa was Martin O'Neill. Had a manager with some tactical nous been appointed, someone who was more capable in the transfer market, particularly given the riches afforded to him, we would probably be in a totally different position now. And for that Randy Lerner would still be lauded by the faithful.

So a bad businessman he may be, but his worst decision, rubber stamping the appointment of his first manager, is one that we would all have taken.

So we are all bad businessmen.

[Mantis]

Unfortunately, and I doubt whether anyone thought it at the time, including me, the worst thing that happened to Randy Lerner and Aston Villa was Martin O'Neill. Had a manager with some tactical nous been appointed, someone who was more capable in the transfer market, particularly given the riches afforded to him, we would probably be in a totally different position now. And for that Randy Lerner would still be lauded by the faithful.

So a bad businessman he may be, but his worst decision, rubber stamping the appointment of his first manager, is one that we would all have taken.

So we are all bad businessmen.

You'll get slaughtered for saying that, but I agree.

[John_Lerwill]

As I said John people can't be arsed, for many reasons, the ones you allude are also a factor but many are just tired of it all.

Agreed ... certainly the old hands are. But you'd think that there is spirit in the younger generations if it gets bad enough.

[tinker]

Demonstration....the worlds about to implode and we expect fan's to demonstrate about football when they can't be arsed to demonstrate about life (all but a few hundred setting tents up)

Lerner threw money at the villa, Ellis never, he gave us hope, heaven forbid (worse move ever) I.M.H.O.

We had more fan to owner communication than any team in the league.........through the General.

People really need to get a grip, there are 453 teams worse off then us atm, we aint Man City or Chelsea but then again we aint the Blues either, 28,000 fans last night, all happy today, time for a bitch slap....

[Mantis]

the worlds about to implode

First I've heard of this.

[CI]

Ellis drew a transparent salary

RAL ltd levies less than clear "management charges"

[PauloBarnesi]

Unfortunately, and I doubt whether anyone thought it at the time, including me, the worst thing that happened to Randy Lerner and Aston Villa was Martin O'Neill. Had a manager with some tactical nous been appointed, someone who was more capable in the transfer market, particularly given the riches afforded to him, we would probably be in a totally different position now. And for that Randy Lerner would still be lauded by the faithful.

So a bad businessman he may be, but his worst decision, rubber stamping the appointment of his first manager, is one that we would all have taken.

So we are all bad businessmen.

I think the worse/bad decision(s) was when MON left; selling Milner, buying Ireland and appointing Houllier.

[Risso]

I agree in the main part John. If I was lucky enough to be in charge I would do things differently, however, I am not going to lambast the club, one that don't forget we all love and want success for, for looking to work within our finances even if.they have me daily statements on how we are doing.

As I said and others agreed, the club are in a no win position.

The decision to work within our means would be laudable if it was a planned strategy for future success, rather than an emergency response to the fact that Lerner completely lost control of the finances at the club, such that there is now seemingly no way back.