TrentVilla Posted December 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 10, 2012 I personally think we will end the season with more points than we did last season under McLeish. I also think the club will be in a significantly better state than it was at the end of the season due to the players Lambert is signing compared to the utter tosh that McLeish signed. So while we are on less points and while the number of goals scored is poor I am (although not entirely happy or satisfied with how things are going) prepared to wait and see what happens in January and the second half of the season. While things are far from great I think there are reasons to hope/believe things will improve which is very different to how I felt 12 months ago under a manager who was only ever going to do more harm than good. I understand peoples frustrations, especially over goals scored and the Bent situation but I just struggle to view Lambert's reign as being worse than what went before. Given the mess he inherited and what I believe are fairly obvious financial constraints I think he is doing a decent job. Our squad was thread bare when he arrived and he has bolstered it yet spent less than O'Neill spent on two players for Sunderland. In the wider context of the circumstances at the club I think he is doing okay and due to what he has done so far and previously in his career I'm still fully behind him even if I don't agree with all his decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 10, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2012 Well one and a half actually So you didn't have a point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I personally think we will end the season with more points than we did last season under McLeish. I also think the club will be in a significantly better state than it was at the end of the season due to the players Lambert is signing compared to the utter tosh that McLeish signed. So while we are on less points and while the number of goals scored is poor I am (although not entirely happy or satisfied with how things are going) prepared to wait and see what happens in January and the second half of the season. While things are far from great I think there are reasons to hope/believe things will improve which is very different to how I felt 12 months ago under a manager who was only ever going to do more harm than good. I understand peoples frustrations, especially over goals scored and the Bent situation but I just struggle to view Lambert's reign as being worse than what went before. Given the mess he inherited and what I believe are fairly obvious financial constraints I think he is doing a decent job. Our squad was thread bare when he arrived and he has bolstered it yet spent less than O'Neill spent on two players for Sunderland. In the wider context of the circumstances at the club I think he is doing okay and due to what he has done so far and previously in his career I'm still fully behind him even if I don't agree with all his decisions. You could say McLeish inherited a poor/weak squad (and he did), but he didn't get off as lightly as Lambert is. The so called 'better football' we're watching, apparently boils down to passing the ball, inefectively 10 yards either side of the halfway line without hurting the opposition. Brilliant!, Can anyone claim (without bullshitting) that if McLeish had been in charge of those 3 woeful performances against QPR, Reading and Stoke that he wouldn't have been booed out of the city ? What's good enough for one is surely good enough for the other. I was fairly happy with Lambert (although OGS was my first choice) but i'm seeing VERY little to make me positive right now. In fact i don't feel anymore confident that I did when I walked out of Upton Park on the opening day scratching my head at what i'd just saw. It's not August anymore, we're virtually HALF WAY through the season and we have less points than last year, are the worst goalscorers in the league and are now reduced to claiming a 0-0 bore fest at home to Stoke, in which I recall their keeper making one half arsed save, is a 'good result' How times and expectations have changed. Masterful PR work from Faulkner & Lerner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 So you didn't have a point? I'd have thought the point was quite obvious. Without Captain Vlaar (in the main) the defence appears to have 'tightened' (against pretty poor opposition granted) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 10, 2012 You could say McLeish inherited a poor/weak squad (and he did), but he didn't get off as lightly as Lambert is. The so called 'better football' we're watching, apparently boils down to passing the ball, inefectively 10 yards either side of the halfway line without hurting the opposition. Brilliant!, Can anyone claim (without bullshitting) that if McLeish had been in charge of those 3 woeful performances against QPR, Reading and Stoke that he wouldn't have been booed out of the city ? What's good enough for one is surely good enough for the other. I was fairly happy with Lambert (although OGS was my first choice) but i'm seeing VERY little to make me positive right now. In fact i don't feel anymore confident that I did when I walked out of Upton Park on the opening day scratching my head at what i'd just saw. It's not August anymore, we're virtually HALF WAY through the season and we have less points than last year, are the worst goalscorers in the league and are now reduced to claiming a 0-0 bore fest at home to Stoke, in which I recall their keeper making one half arsed save, is a 'good result' How times and expectations have changed. Masterful PR work from Faulkner & Lerner Lambert is getting time from the fans for 1 important reason. They can see what he is trying to achieve with the club. I'm actually relieved and impressed that the fans are enlightened enough not to already be on his back. I would have expected them to be fickle as they usually are. But no, I'm impressed that they're still on-board. McLeish never gave me the impression that he had any vision whatsoever. He did with us what he had done everywhere else. Anti-football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 10, 2012 You could say McLeish inherited a poor/weak squad (and he did), but he didn't get off as lightly as Lambert is. No argument from me he did but it was significantly stronger than the one that Lambert inherited from him. Add to the fact that McLeish made it worse by wasting what money he had on the likes of Hutton, Jenas, Given and N'Zogbia. There is no comparison to be made that is favourable to McLeish, he had a better squad to start with but signed utter rubbish. At least the majority of Lambert's signings have been decent and won't see us pissing money up a wall that we will never get back. The so called 'better football' we're watching, apparently boils down to passing the ball, inefectively 10 yards either side of the halfway line without hurting the opposition. Brilliant!. The football is better to watch in my opinion, just think back to Spurs away last season for example. Think of teams with 6 defenders and Heskey in midfield. You are welcome to your views, it is after all subjective, but personally I struggle to imagine how anyone can argue the football isn't better this season than last. Can anyone claim (without bullshitting) that if McLeish had been in charge of those 3 woeful performances against QPR, Reading and Stoke that he wouldn't have been booed out of the city ? He probably would have been but what does that prove? The circumstances are entirely different and I'm not talking about where McLeish came from. His and Lambert's spells as manager are viewed very differently by a lot of people for reasons I've already mentioned therefore a lot of peoples reactions to results are also different as are expectations after two terrible seasons and the reduction in the quality in our squad. What's good enough for one is surely good enough for the other. I was fairly happy with Lambert (although OGS was my first choice) but i'm seeing VERY little to make me positive right now. In fact i don't feel anymore confident that I did when I walked out of Upton Park on the opening day scratching my head at what i'd just saw. No they are totally different as I've already mentioned but I'm not going to labour a point you obviously are never going to agree on. Out of interest what was it about OGS that made him your first choice? Lambert wouldn't have been my first choice either by the way I wanted Rodgers. I do though believe he is improving things though I accept progress is slow. It's not August anymore, we're virtually HALF WAY through the season and we have less points than last year, are the worst goalscorers in the league and are now reduced to claiming a 0-0 bore fest at home to Stoke, in which I recall their keeper making one half arsed save, is a 'good result' I'm not going to disagree with you on any of the above but as I previously stated I still think we will end the season better off than we were 12 months ago. As you say, we are half way (almost) there is still a lot of football to be played. How times and expectations have changed. Masterful PR work from Faulkner & Lerner Now on those pair I think we would agree far more but that is another thread, all I will say though is that you won't find many people more critical of Lerner than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 10, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2012 I'd have thought the point was quite obvious. Without Captain Vlaar (in the main) the defence appears to have 'tightened' (against pretty poor opposition granted) Except he played in half of the games. So I guess that proves...I dunno.... the defence is made up of more than one man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 You could say McLeish inherited a poor/weak squad (and he did), but he didn't get off as lightly as Lambert is. The so called 'better football' we're watching, apparently boils down to passing the ball, inefectively 10 yards either side of the halfway line without hurting the opposition. Brilliant! if you can't see how holding onto the ball and passing it around is the first step to better football, then you're a lost cause lambert can't just show up one day and say "right lads, we're going to pass the ball around, cut the defence open and score at will", the players need to get used to actually having the ball at their feet for prolonged periods. once you've got that there, you can start on triangles (which we're starting to see come into our game a lot more), and from there the incisiveness will start to creep in as new players are signed you start with the basics, and we've been lacking the basics in terms of passing and movement for as long as i can remember 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I'm chuffed you agree with a manger that's got us in a worse situation than his predecessor, and made us about as toothless as Les Dawson. He certainly looks like he knows what he's doing But i'm sure we'll stay up without scoring ... So you think McLeish was a better manager than Lambert? You're on your own there I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 if you can't see how holding onto the ball and passing it around is the first step to better football, then you're a lost cause lambert can't just show up one day and say "right lads, we're going to pass the ball around, cut the defence open and score at will", the players need to get used to actually having the ball at their feet for prolonged periods. once you've got that there, you can start on triangles (which we're starting to see come into our game a lot more), and from there the incisiveness will start to creep in as new players are signed you start with the basics, and we've been lacking the basics in terms of passing and movement for as long as i can remember Do you remember Tony Mowbray's West Brom a few seasons back? He played a very similar style to how we played on the weekend. A lot of neat triangles on the half way line but no cutting edge going forward. They went down that year but won a lot of praise for their style of play. We need to get some sort of cutting edge in the side, I have a bad feeling we are going to be right back down there after the next three games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 10, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2012 I completely agree with the above. I was one of those ciriticising the praise of Mowbray's West Brom, because winning football is good football. Not passing it around and losing. However, I do think that cutting edge will come with lambert's style. If we go down, then he will be to blame and the style will be a big part of that. But we won't. imo of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 10, 2012 Yeah I remember Mowbray's side. That shows that you can go down playing nice football. But then there are plenty more examples where teams win playing nice football and don't go down. We just have to believe that as Stevo says, the cutting edge will come. I think it will. And Merse said something at the weekend that I've been saying for a while. If we stay up this season we'll be a cracking side next year with the kids all a year older and more experienced plus familiar with each other. Although I suspect we'll be replacing Benteke in the summer. Clubs like us aren't allowed to own players that good for any length of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 10, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2012 I also hope Westwood, as he's not a Hollywood player, will go unnoticed for a few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockStockVilla Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I feel like with the 5-3-2 Lambert has seemed to fancy lately, it could eventually lead to goals. If we can get Bennett back and he/Lowton show ability to get forward well, I really think this is the best system for Bent/Benteke to play in together. If the two wingbacks can send in crosses to Benteke to score off and knockdown for Bent, we could be very dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 If the two wingbacks can send in crosses to Benteke to score off and knockdown for Bent, we could be very dangerous. Bent will be gone in January Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockStockVilla Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Bent will be gone in January Well, if you're Bent's agent, I will take your word for it. Until then, he is a player in our squad who we can try and utilize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Lambert is getting time from the fans for 1 important reason. They can see what he is trying to achieve with the club. I'm actually relieved and impressed that the fans are enlightened enough not to already be on his back. I would have expected them to be fickle as they usually are. But no, I'm impressed that they're still on-board. McLeish never gave me the impression that he had any vision whatsoever. He did with us what he had done everywhere else. Anti-football. Agreed completely. When McLeish came in he made it pretty clear he was all about more of the same. He kept the same unimaginative and failed transfer policy. He immediately let all the bad eggs back in and worst of all was the ultra-negative hoofball that he insists his teams play. Even at the beginning of the season when were doing ok in terms of results the performance were by and large poor. Lambert's the complete opposite. He's come in with a fresh approach to transfers and he's tried to actually get us passing the ball which is something we have lacked the ability to do at even a basic level for years. Although we aren't scoring that many awe are getting quite a few chances, we just can't put them away at the moment. There's a very good reason why Lambert is getting more patience than McLeish got, although personally I think the fans as a whole were too lenient with McLeish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Bent will be gone in January ITK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Well, if you're Bent's agent, I will take your word for it. Until then, he is a player in our squad who we can try and utilize. I'll take a bet that we won't see "Benteke knocking it down for Bent to score" anytime soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 ITK? No but I'll have a tenner on it with you if you are convinced differently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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