Big_John_10 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 If we were currently sitting in the top 8 I'd find suggesting lambert is the 4th best manager in the league laughable. To suggest it after our worst prem start and sitting in 18th after a third of the season is just amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 There's better managers on a whole, but suited for us in our current position, I don't think they would be many. I think Wenger, and Moyes could do the top to bottom rebuilding job. Others are may be too old, not motivated to do all that restructuring, or too 'cheque book' for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 23, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 23, 2012 If we were currently sitting in the top 8 I'd find suggesting lambert is the 4th best manager in the league laughable. To suggest it after our worst prem start and sitting in 18th after a third of the season is just amazing. That's sort of negating anything else he's ever done though. Now I'm not saying Lambert is the 4th best in the league. He isn't (yet) imo. But if we assume Moyes is in the top 4 or 5 in the league, and if Everton had had their worst start to a premier League, would that suddenly make Moyes NOT in that group of managers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 No because you take into account everything Moyes had done in the past. And back to back promotions from league 1 and championship don't come close to matching the achievements of some managers in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefa3011 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Hang on, until this season David Moyes has started every Premier League season he's been at Everton poorly, hasn't he? But yeah, let's write off our young manager after just 12 games. Great idea If the board have thought so short term like some of our fans in recent years, it's no wonder we're up shit creek without a paddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 23, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 23, 2012 No because you take into account everything Moyes had done in the past. And back to back promotions from league 1 and championship don't come close to matching the achievements of some managers in the league. That's great. But your previous post implied you were basing it purely off his last 12 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 The problems run deeper than simply who the manager is, but seeing as it is the only side of the club we get a good look at, it will inevitably be the most scrutinised, so it is hard to claim X is the problem when we know very little about any other potential causes. On the whole I'm fine with Lambert as I think he has the right ideas but it will take time and a great deal of patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Pretty lame of Lambert to once again criticise the penalty decisions after the City game, after being banned for the weekend. Trying to get another game or two? Also, the second penalty was a clear handball and a penalty, nothing we can argue against. Some are given, some are not, it was a penalty. None of our players are really arguing against it either, especially Bannan who knows he has let his team down. And the first one? Soft as hell, but looking from the referee's angle I think he gives it for the tug on Kompany from Clark, not the handball from whoever it was even if that is the concensus. Kompany is held back a bit and cannot put his head on the ball, even though his position is great. Clark is holding his right sleeve just as he is about to head the ball and the ref has a clear view of it. Soft, yes, but nothing I would call a total disgrace. All in all we were hard done by, but it is not like they dived for a penalty or we got a red card that was never a red etc. Lambert probably the one who has made a big deal out of something that was not, an attempt to cover a total of 8 goals in the back of the net over two games against the best teams in the league? I mean, he has said his players have done their absolute best in these games but we have let in 8 goals. I would be very, very afraid if that was our best effort. Not trying to dig at Lambert here, I just believe people should receive criticism when deserved and praise when that is appropriate. So far his post-match interviews have been a bit like a man who knows his future is uncertain because his results have been so terrible. I really hope we turn it around soon, just can't take another battle for relegation, especially from lying under the relegation line all the way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 23, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 23, 2012 And the first one? Soft as hell, but looking from the referee's angle I think he gives it for the tug on Kompany from Clark, not the handball from whoever it was even if that is the concensus. Kompany is held back a bit and cannot put his head on the ball, even though his position is great. Clark is holding his right sleeve just as he is about to head the ball and the ref has a clear view of it. You couldn't be more wrong. The ref gives nothing. He only gives a penalty after consulting with his linesman, who's flagged for a penalty, and clearly motions that it's for a handball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 What a lot of bollocks that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 You couldn't be more wrong. The ref gives nothing. He only gives a penalty after consulting with his linesman, who's flagged for a penalty, and clearly motions that it's for a handball. 100% this. You see the lino tap his hand on his forearm indicating handball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 23, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 23, 2012 And the lino moving his arm indicating it and clearly mouthing "handball" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Thought of something interesting. You know how City do this tunnel cam video - they usually upload it onto youtube for everyone to see the players in the tunnel before the game at half time and at the final whistle. Do you think we might be able to see Lambert getting at the ref's possibly down the tunnel after the final whistle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 The first penalty was given for an alleged handball. The decision was a disgrace and there is no debating this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Although the penalty decision was frustrating, not to mention incorrect, my main concern is the way our team completely capitulated following the decision. Maybe Man City got a huge boost from it but we just seemed to give in, which is concerning. My other concern at the moment is how a lot of our 2nd half performances seem to take a massive nose dive when compared to the 1st. Villa 2 - 3 Man Utd (1-0 HT) Tottenham 2 - 0 Villa (0-0 HT) Southampton 4 - 1 Villa (0-1 HT) Man City 5 - 0 Villa (1-0 HT) Yes we're inexperienced, and 3 of the 4 examples are teams that should be beating us, but apart from the Man Utd game I thought we were noticably poorer in the 2nd half. We are desperate for more experience across the team, and I just hope Lambert is given the funds to do that in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I agree, if you ignore someone who is expressing their opinion rationally, but not everyone does that (positive and negative). The person on my ignore list is just a wind up merchant. That's right. The people I have ignored are because their same old arguments are tiresome. I have no problem with people being negative or realistic. It all fuels a good debate, which is never a bad thing! However, some people are so pathetic with their arguments. Can you imagine an opposition goal being solely blamed on a player who played a sloppy pass, to a player who then fouled the opposition, resulting in a free kick, resulting in a cross... to a goal? HA! Can you imagine even IMAGINING having a reasonable debate with someone who would post such drivel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Although the penalty decision was frustrating, not to mention incorrect, my main concern is the way our team completely capitulated following the decision. Maybe Man City got a huge boost from it but we just seemed to give in, which is concerning. My other concern at the moment is how a lot of our 2nd half performances seem to take a massive nose dive when compared to the 1st. Villa 2 - 3 Man Utd (1-0 HT) Tottenham 2 - 0 Villa (0-0 HT) Southampton 4 - 1 Villa (0-1 HT) Man City 5 - 0 Villa (1-0 HT) Yes we're inexperienced, and 3 of the 4 examples are teams that should be beating us, but apart from the Man Utd game I thought we were noticably poorer in the 2nd half. We are desperate for more experience across the team, and I just hope Lambert is given the funds to do that in January. The reason we are so crap in the second half is because we never have possesion of the football. Everybody runs around loads in the first half to compensate for the glaringly obvious lack of talent at the club. After about 15 mins of the sceond half everybody is knackered and we get totally over run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 The reason we are so crap in the second half is because we never have possesion of the football. Everybody runs around loads in the first half to compensate for the glaringly obvious lack of talent at the club. After about 15 mins of the sceond half everybody is knackered and we get totally over run. I don't think there is a lack of talent at the club. The likes of Bannan, Westwood and Ireland are very good at keeping the ball. However, our defence is a panicky bunch of girls who's main aim is still to kick the ball anywhere when in possession as if it's some kind of explosive device. We cannot build from the back because our defenders simply don't want the ball. We also clearly lack a big DM to protect the back 4, which may also be the reason why there is so much chaos in our back 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 There's better managers on a whole, but suited for us in our current position, I don't think they would be many. I think Wenger, and Moyes could do the top to bottom rebuilding job. Others are may be too old, not motivated to do all that restructuring, or too 'cheque book' for the job. I guess that would rule out quite a few managers for our club. So if Lambert was sacked we need another manager who is just out of his managerial dipers, will be given limited funding to turn a club around and yet expect to be fully motivated that he can do the job asked of him under those conditions. I guess we'll be sticking with Lambert for the forseeable future even if relegated. I see Redknapp is still being called overated on here. Interesting to see where they finish at the end of the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 If the board have thought so short term like some of our fans in recent years, it's no wonder we're up shit creek without a paddle. Not sure whether its 'short term' thinking or just poor managerial choices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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