Ashley Westwood

[Papillon]

 

 

 

Eh? You seem to to criticising him for trying an ambitious pass and that he should have played the simple pass in the 1st half of your post before saying he spends too much time playing the simple pass in the 2nd half of your post. You can't have it both ways.

 

 

So when Westwood tries it, it's an "ambitious pass". When Bannan does it, it's a "hollywood ball".

 

The reason Westwood is making those kind of passes is because Bannan is not in the team and someone has to do the creative work, because Delph is too busy passing 40 yards back to Guzan to do it. Fact is, Westwood isn't as good as Bannan at creative spreading the play.

 

 

What is your mission with Barry Bannan?

 

What is very obvious to the objective eye is that he is not a very good player, and even offensively he is way below average even though you advocate the opposite. I am not a big fan of Westwood, by that I mean that he has gotten a lot of positive reviews this season on here even though IMO he has been very lacklustre at times and just OK most of the time, but I can also see his value in the future. Barry Bannan has had his chance and it's the same over and over. When he gets the ball and tries to be creative he either lofts it into the box just to get rid of the ball, when he tries short passes when pressed he often just sprays it into occupied territory or makes it hard for the player who finally gets it. There is no clever pass into space, no assist, no goal, not anything. He has taken many set-pieces this season but his tally of assists is way down like I expected it to be, same with goals. His biggest mistake is that he often tries to shoot from distance, and like I mentioned earlier, it seems like he does sometimes just to get rid of the ball or pass the responsibility over to somebody else. He shoots from 40 yards out and it is never anywhere near going in. In other words, he contributes almost nothing when it comes to attacking play. Back to the defensive side of things, he is not a forechecker, he doesn't tackle well and he lacks pace. My main impression is that he is easy to play around and he is always chasing the ball instead of anticipating where it is going to be, leaving him with late tackles or pulling a shirt to come back into it.

 

He just.... isn't good enough for this level. Sure he can dope around in midfield for us now and then, but we find ourselves where we are mainly because of players like him. Players who are just there on the pitch in the starting XI, but you can bet your ass the other team are looking back with optimism when they see our teamsheet. We cannot have players who are afraid of having the ball in possession.

[KennyPowers]

There are times when I've thought Bannan could turn out to be a quality player although he would always have needed accommodating somewhat with player(s) next to him to do the defensive work. 

 

The best I can describe Bannan though, he seems to lack concentration on the pitch and he doesn't appear to care too much.  

[Stevo985]

 

 

 

Eh? You seem to to criticising him for trying an ambitious pass and that he should have played the simple pass in the 1st half of your post before saying he spends too much time playing the simple pass in the 2nd half of your post. You can't have it both ways.

 

 

So when Westwood tries it, it's an "ambitious pass". When Bannan does it, it's a "hollywood ball".

 

The reason Westwood is making those kind of passes is because Bannan is not in the team and someone has to do the creative work, because Delph is too busy passing 40 yards back to Guzan to do it. Fact is, Westwood isn't as good as Bannan at creative spreading the play.

 

Ironically, I actually think Bannan's best games for us this season have come when there's someone else in the team to do that creative work for him.

 

Back when Ireland was playing, bannan was just doing the simple stuff that Westwood does more of now, and he looked way better for it.

 

When Bannan is the creative one in the team is when he struggles, imo. It appears that when the pressure is on him to pull the strings is when he tries to be too ambitious and plays balls beyond his capability.

 

If he learns to reel in those passes and play a simpler game he'll be a much better player

[Con]

 

 

 

 

Eh? You seem to to criticising him for trying an ambitious pass and that he should have played the simple pass in the 1st half of your post before saying he spends too much time playing the simple pass in the 2nd half of your post. You can't have it both ways.

 

 

So when Westwood tries it, it's an "ambitious pass". When Bannan does it, it's a "hollywood ball".

 

The reason Westwood is making those kind of passes is because Bannan is not in the team and someone has to do the creative work, because Delph is too busy passing 40 yards back to Guzan to do it. Fact is, Westwood isn't as good as Bannan at creative spreading the play.

 

Ironically, I actually think Bannan's best games for us this season have come when there's someone else in the team to do that creative work for him.

 

Back when Ireland was playing, bannan was just doing the simple stuff that Westwood does more of now, and he looked way better for it.

 

When Bannan is the creative one in the team is when he struggles, imo. It appears that when the pressure is on him to pull the strings is when he tries to be too ambitious and plays balls beyond his capability.

 

If he learns to reel in those passes and play a simpler game he'll be a much better player

 

 

Ireland has started for 1 Premier League win.

 

Bannan has started for 6 Premier League wins.

 

I don't agree with you.

 

You've just inverted what I said about Westwood in an effort to be clever, but you didn't check the stats first.

[Stevo985]

 

 

 

 

 

Eh? You seem to to criticising him for trying an ambitious pass and that he should have played the simple pass in the 1st half of your post before saying he spends too much time playing the simple pass in the 2nd half of your post. You can't have it both ways.

 

 

So when Westwood tries it, it's an "ambitious pass". When Bannan does it, it's a "hollywood ball".

 

The reason Westwood is making those kind of passes is because Bannan is not in the team and someone has to do the creative work, because Delph is too busy passing 40 yards back to Guzan to do it. Fact is, Westwood isn't as good as Bannan at creative spreading the play.

 

Ironically, I actually think Bannan's best games for us this season have come when there's someone else in the team to do that creative work for him.

 

Back when Ireland was playing, bannan was just doing the simple stuff that Westwood does more of now, and he looked way better for it.

 

When Bannan is the creative one in the team is when he struggles, imo. It appears that when the pressure is on him to pull the strings is when he tries to be too ambitious and plays balls beyond his capability.

 

If he learns to reel in those passes and play a simpler game he'll be a much better player

 

 

Ireland has started for 1 Premier League win.

 

Bannan has started for 6 Premier League wins.

 

I don't agree with you.

 

You've just inverted what I said about Westwood in an effort to be clever, but you didn't check the stats first.

 

What on Earth are you talking about? What does them starting games we've won remotely have to do with my point?

I'm not sure you could have missed the point any more than you have.

 

I wasn't commenting on Ireland's ability at all, let alone in comparison to Bannan. Ireland is shit. Worse than Bannan.

 

All I was saying was that in my opinion, Barry Bannan plays better when he isn't the one who has to do all the creating. I used an instant I remember when Ireland was in the team as an example. Ireland may well have been absolute dog turd in that game for all I know. All I remember was that because he was in the team, Bannan seemed to play a simpler game, because he didn't have to be relied upon to do the creating, and looked a better player for it. (and FWIW I made this point at the time in the Bannan thread, so I wasn't just inverting what you said about Westwood)

 

In a way, I was complimenting Bannan. Maybe if you removed your head from his arse and actually read what I wrote you'd realise that I was giving credit to your golden boy.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Stevo985

[Zatman]

i like Bannan I think their is a decent player in there somehow but FFS Con get a grip on his talent. 

[GarethRDR]

FFS Con get a grip on his talent. 

I think Con would love to get a grip on his "talent".

 

[Con]

That's what I said about Westwood. You've inverted it and said it about Bannan.

 

Ireland has rarely played with Bannan on the pitch, and when they've played together Villa doesn't win much.  You can have no grounds for any analysis whatsoever that Bannan plays well with Ireland.

 

When it's Bannan and Westwood, Bannan is responsible for the more creative passes. That is why Westwood's passing accuracy stats have plummeted from high 90%s to low 80%s since Delph has come in.

 

He's going for the 'hollywood balls' - as you guys call them - Bannan would otherwise be going for. He's not as good at picking a pass as Bannan and I don't think he's comfortable doing that.

[GarethRDR]

You can have no grounds for any analysis whatsoever that Bannan plays well with Ireland.

I'd imagine Stevo, having watched such events unfold with his own two eyes, is then capable of using his brain to form an analysis.  Football cannot be reduced to math alone.  

 

If it could, teams wouldn't sink millions into scouts; they'd be trying to resurrect Pythagoras.

[Stevo985]

That's what I said about Westwood. You've inverted it and said it about Bannan.

 

Ireland has rarely played with Bannan on the pitch, and when they've played together Villa doesn't win much.  You can have no grounds for any analysis whatsoever that Bannan plays well with Ireland.

 

When it's Bannan and Westwood, Bannan is responsible for the more creative passes. That is why Westwood's passing accuracy stats have plummeted from high 90%s to low 80%s since Delph has come in.

 

He's going for the 'hollywood balls' - as you guys call them - Bannan would otherwise be going for. He's not as good at picking a pass as Bannan and I don't think he's comfortable doing that.

You're actually impossible.

I haven't inverted it. Your post reminded me of what i'd said about Bannan months ago. I'm sure I could dig out the exact post if I have to. So unless I time travelled, I haven't just inverted what you said. I was actually capable of forming my own opinion.

 

AGAIN (I assume when stuff isn't numbers you struggle to read it), I mentioned Ireland because it was ONE example that I remember. The point is more general. I'm NOT saying Bannan plays better when he plays with Ireland, specifically. I'm saying that IN MY OPINION Bannan plays better when he plays a more reserved role and isn't under pressure to be the sole creative force going forward. A game where Ireland played is ONE (one. I'll write it again, one) example that I remember.

 

Your final 2 sentences are irrelevant to my point. I wasn't talking about Westwood (which admittedly makes this off topic so I apologise)

[Con]

Bannan's whole game revolves around creativity, that is, picking passes. Saying he's not good at that is like saying Delph is lazy. You're dissing his key selling point and I can't believe you don't know you are doing so.

 

If Bannan can't pass imaginatively, which is his game, you're saying he's useless. Which of course you are.

 

Westwood isn't in the team to 'pick a pass'. He's a get-and-giver who can pass a bit too, but it's not his main game, and when it becomes his main game the rest of his game suffers - as it has against Stoke (which we nearly drew except for goal out of nothing), Fulham and Man Utd (admittedly he wasn't great against Liverpool either).

[Stevo985]

Which is why I said it was ironic.

 

Because I actually think he's better when he doesn't force the things that you think he's good at.

 

Notice I said force. All I'm saying is when the creativity revolves around Bannan, I feel he tries too hard to find that pass. When he reels that in a bit and he's not relied upon to be the sole creative force I believe he's better.

 

I'm not saying he's better when he doesn't do any creating whatsoever. I'm saying he's better when he's not trying to force the issue because, I assumed at the time, he doesn't feel like he HAS to do it. He can just do it when the pass is actually on rather than booting it into the box every time.

 

I don't know how I could put it in any simpler terms. If you miss the point for the third time then I don't know what else I can do to help.

 

 

FWIW I agree with your last point about Westwood. And again, that has nothing to do with what I was saying.

[PaulC]

 

That's what I said about Westwood. You've inverted it and said it about Bannan.

 

Ireland has rarely played with Bannan on the pitch, and when they've played together Villa doesn't win much.  You can have no grounds for any analysis whatsoever that Bannan plays well with Ireland.

 

When it's Bannan and Westwood, Bannan is responsible for the more creative passes. That is why Westwood's passing accuracy stats have plummeted from high 90%s to low 80%s since Delph has come in.

 

He's going for the 'hollywood balls' - as you guys call them - Bannan would otherwise be going for. He's not as good at picking a pass as Bannan and I don't think he's comfortable doing that.

You're actually impossible.

I haven't inverted it. Your post reminded me of what i'd said about Bannan months ago. I'm sure I could dig out the exact post if I have to. So unless I time travelled, I haven't just inverted what you said. I was actually capable of forming my own opinion.

 

AGAIN (I assume when stuff isn't numbers you struggle to read it), I mentioned Ireland because it was ONE example that I remember. The point is more general. I'm NOT saying Bannan plays better when he plays with Ireland, specifically. I'm saying that IN MY OPINION Bannan plays better when he plays a more reserved role and isn't under pressure to be the sole creative force going forward. A game where Ireland played is ONE (one. I'll write it again, one) example that I remember.

 

Your final 2 sentences are irrelevant to my point. I wasn't talking about Westwood (which admittedly makes this off topic so I apologise)

 

 

 

I prefer Bannan in a more attacking role actually. When he came on against Newcastle at home he played further forward and made a difference. I want to see him the most advanced of the midfield players because as Con says his game is about creativity and he's more likely than anybody else we have to make that telling pass.

[Stevo985]

Bannan's whole game revolves around creativity, that is, picking passes. 

 

 

 

 

 his game is about creativity and he's more likely than anybody else we have to make that telling pass.

 

Yet, stat fans, only 1 assist in 18 appearances.

[PaulC]

Stats suggest Brad Guzan is the worst goalkeeper in our history but we all know that is far from the truth.

[Stevo985]

Stats suggest Brad Guzan is the worst goalkeeper in our history but we all know that is far from the truth.

Well

 

1. That's sort of my point. There's more to Bannan's game than you can measure with stats, both positive and negative. As there is with any player. Try telling Con that, though.

 

2. The stats don't say Guzan is the worst keeper in our history.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Stevo985

[villan_007]

Bannan's whole game revolves around creativity, that is, picking passes. Saying he's not good at that is like saying Delph is lazy. You're dissing his key selling point and I can't believe you don't know you are doing so.

 

If Bannan can't pass imaginatively, which is his game, you're saying he's useless. Which of course you are.

 

Westwood isn't in the team to 'pick a pass'. He's a get-and-giver who can pass a bit too, but it's not his main game, and when it becomes his main game the rest of his game suffers - as it has against Stoke (which we nearly drew except for goal out of nothing), Fulham and Man Utd (admittedly he wasn't great against Liverpool either).

 

Apart from the stunning pass for the goal but lets purely focus on the negatives

[Con]

 

Bannan's whole game revolves around creativity, that is, picking passes. Saying he's not good at that is like saying Delph is lazy. You're dissing his key selling point and I can't believe you don't know you are doing so.

 

If Bannan can't pass imaginatively, which is his game, you're saying he's useless. Which of course you are.

 

Westwood isn't in the team to 'pick a pass'. He's a get-and-giver who can pass a bit too, but it's not his main game, and when it becomes his main game the rest of his game suffers - as it has against Stoke (which we nearly drew except for goal out of nothing), Fulham and Man Utd (admittedly he wasn't great against Liverpool either).

 

Apart from the stunning pass for the goal but lets purely focus on the negatives

 

 

It was a hoof up-field and, if I remember right, he had more than one to aim at if it went wrong.

 

Haven't said he can't pass, he is a Carrick type of player! Carrick is not a Scholes either.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Con

[markavfc40]

I see the drivel about Bannan has found its way into yet another thread. Barring injuries he has already played his last game for us but I can't wait until he is **** off to another club so I don't have to keep reading the same shite about him.

[briny_ear]

This thread has indeed travelled far from its home but it's been worth it for the superb ripostes for Stevo, although how he has the patience I'm not sure.