General Transfer speculation thread with guff from Twitter

[CI]

Please lord not the Milner shit again

[Morpheus]

However while having a poor manager doesn't help, i believe there was a lot more contributing to those performances such as difficulties with certain players who didn't give a toss about the club which was reflected in their performances. Those players were also guaranteed their place due to lack of investment and of course injuries which didn't help either.

Never said the players were blameless, but it is the managers job to motivate them and McLeish clearly didn't do that.

But the over riding issue for me which is still current is that our squad simply isn't good enough. You only have to look at our first team at the moment to see that. The legacy left by previous managers (buying too many shit players on inflated wages and having to sell our better players due to wage issues and lack of success) has i believe resulted in our performances last season and our flirtation with relegation.

Never said our squad was good enough either, I was just contesting this notion that it's so bad we'll be in danger of relegation next season.

You mention a forward line of Bent, Gabby, N'Zogbia and Ireland which shouldn't struggle to score goals. On paper you are correct. On paper!

It was McLeish that set us up in such a negative way. He's the main culprit for the lack of goals. Even somebody like Bruce got a lot of goals out of Bent, yet McLeish just played him as a target man and got the cloggers in defence to hoof the ball up to him. You can't deny that McLeish's negative tactics hindered our attacking players.

Gabby hasn't been the same player for quite some time now. His attitude for me hasn't been right and whether its due to injuries or too much time in the gym he has also lost a bit of his main attribute, pace. Not the same player.

I agree there, but he's still a decent player to have in the team.

N'Zogbia to date has been a poor acquisition. He was a big fish in a small pond at Wigan and again his form has been well below of what has been expected. You could blame the previous manager for that but since his pre season performances are already reflecting his performances last season then the name seems to be bigger than the quality!

Poor management. Every time he looked to be coming into something you could call form McLeish would bench him for Heskey. Not entirely McLeish's fault, but he's not blameless either.

Ireland is another one of those players who flatters to deceive. Yes he probably was our best player last season with McLeish getting him to play better, but he shone in a very poor midfield which wasn't hard to do and in his time with us has he ever taken a game by the scruff of the neck and won it for us? Thats why there's so much debate about him whether he is indeed worth the wages and if we should sell him to fund a more effective player on lower wages? Looks good on paper due to his reputation with City but the reality is something quite different.

Same as Gabby really. How can you expect a naturally attacking player to shine in a team that's set up to be ultra-defensive?

Bent is the one quality player we have left and i agree he was misused under McLeish's tenure but again i believe there were several reasons for that. His supply was cut when both Downing and Young were sold and their replacements Albrighton and N'Zogbia were simply not up to the job.

He doesn't need players like Young and Downing to score lots of goals. He was misused by McLeish, just like most of our other players.

We also lost Petrov, the heart and protector of our midfield and therefore it is my opinion that Bent had to be played in a slightly more withdrawn role to try and protect the gaping hole through our centre. Since both our wingers were not contributing much going forward they were given a more defensive role by McLeish to stop us conceding which obviously didn't suit them.

We lost Petrov in March. We were shit all season. You said yourself that our attacking players were set up to be defensive which didn't suit them yet you're still defending McLeish?

If you remember when we signed Keane how we became more offensive and no-one could disagree that our performances improved when he was in the team because the system was then changed to accommodate him.

We honestly weren't that great. Wolves we were good (but that was Wolves and were it not for Keane we probably would've lost), QPR we were dire. Ok we came back from two goals down but you could clearly see that we were set up to just defend in the beginning. That was the problem with McLeish - he is a reactive, not a proactive manager. He doesn't take the game to opponents. He'd rather just sit back and try and nick a 1-0. Only when his teams have conceded a couple of goals do the players finally attack. Even when Keane was here we were still dire to watch and ultra-negative.

Where have i said i overrate McLeish? I have said he was a poor manager but i have tried to be fair to him in that there were other factors which contributed to last season.

I never said you said you overrate McLeish, I just said you overrate him. To say that we ended up in about the right position last season would indicate that you think he did a fair job, which is miles from the truth.

Lambert is trying to dismantle the present team because they are simply not good enough. He would have seen how poor our team was in the last game of the season against his own side who you say are inferior. The old adage remains. You finish where you deserve in the table and we finished below Norwich last season for a reason. They were better than us and proved it!

He's not dismantling. He's just trying to improve the weaker area which is the defence. McLeish on the other hand just played a turgid, defensive brand of football despite the fact that our strengths clearly laid in attack.

We also beat Norwich 3-2 last November you know. One game doesn't prove anything. That 2-0 defeat to Norwich was just a standard gutless McLeish performance. It indicates the most glaringly obvious thing - McLeish is a terrible manager that's good for absolutely nothing. It certainly doesn't indicate that Norwich's squad is better than ours. It clearly isn't.

Yes, they were better than us because they had a much better manager! I don't know why you find this so hard to get your head round. We did not finish 16th because we had the fifth worst squad in the division - we finished 16th because McLeish is an absolutely hopeless manager.

We'll be fine.

I read that a few times last season and we all know what happened!

That was under McLeish though, one of the worst managers in the history of Villa if not the Premier League.

and bad and all as he was, we were ultimately still fine

Only just. If Randy hadn't sacked the word removed we would've been dead certain for relegation this season.

Its not as definitive as that managers should be able to motivate players. There are other factors to consider, the main one being if you have a split dressing room with problematic players they might not want to be motivated no matter what the manager does. McLeish did hint that there were problems within the squad. He couldn't drop those players due to financial restrictions and not having experienced replacements. Players should also be professional enough to motivate themselves into decent levels of performance. Pride should be motivation alone! I think its very narrow minded to just blame the manager for the levels of performance last season as there quite obviously other factors to consider.

You are ignoring my point on why we were set up so negatively. Bruce got the best out of Bent due to the correct service and i have already clearly explained why that didn't happen with us last season. Please be mindful within our previous debate one of the mods asked us to stop debating the same point over and over again as it was boring which i agree with!

As far as Gabby goes then we're agreed that he is not as potent, so your previous point about us being able to score more goals is invalid!

N'Zogbia is repeating the same form in pre season as he was last season and i refer you to the above point concerning Gabby!

If you read my post again concerning Ireland you will see that i stated he was our best player last season and WAS ABLE to to play his natural game even though my main point was, is his effectiveness and performances worth the wages?

I totally disagree about your assumption concerning Keane that when he was in the team we dire to watch and ultra negative. Did you actually watch the games he played in? We changed our system to accommodate him and played some very attractive football as our passing was more to feet than hoof. We weren't Barca but our performances did improve and thats my point!

No i said we finished where we did due to having a poor squad of players. I never stated, or implied that McLeish did a good job and here we have another example Mantis of you trying to put words into other poster's mouths when they quite obviously haven't been stated in the posts. This is quite annoying and something you should get away from. Debate on what has been stated not what you think is being implied!

Lambert's not only changing the defence Mantis is he? He's also purchased a midfielder as well so he is not just concentrating on defence. Another point in your debate which is invalid.

Norwich are currently a better team than us because they finished higher up the table. I note you have stated that we beat Norwich when we first played them so by your own logic that makes McLeish a better manager than Lambert, certainly earlier in the season. Doesn't really work that Mantis does it?

Anyway Mantis i'm going to love you and leave you at that. I don't want to keep going over the same points until the mods clip both our wings.

[Tayls]

I think we should brace ourselves for a few hidings until lambert has had the time and cash he badly needs.

The villa job is a really difficult one.

Agreed. Though I don't think we will be signing anymore this summer. Next year could be a gooden though.

We will finish between 10th and 15th I recon.

[Dr_Pangloss]

10th-12th is a sensible expectation, anything higher is retarded.

Lambert needs the time and space to do his thing, lot's of restructuring is needed and things won't happen over night. We have the right man in charge for the job IMO.

[quizme]

So the Kenwyne Jones talk has (as expected) stopped.

[KSV]

I'm still shocked after the seasons we just had.. we've spent less than the Ellis era. I can see 5 million more spent and that's it. Even mcleish got more last season. I hope we have late signings.. just can't see it.. very disappointed so far. Come on randy back lambert...

[Czechlad]

I think we will definitely sign more players before Sept 1st. We have plenty of time. We might get lucky and get a player before the West ham match. We should be able to beat west ham in our current state. Even though they have been linked with all these players, they have only made one signing so far.

[Mantis]

Its not as definitive as that managers should be able to motivate players. There are other factors to consider, the main one being if you have a split dressing room with problematic players they might not want to be motivated no matter what the manager does. McLeish did hint that there were problems within the squad. He couldn't drop those players due to financial restrictions and not having experienced replacements. Players should also be professional enough to motivate themselves into decent levels of performance. Pride should be motivation alone! I think its very narrow minded to just blame the manager for the levels of performance last season as there quite obviously other factors to consider.

I'm not solely blaming the manager. You're not even reading my posts properly. Of course there are other factors to consider, but that doesn't mean that McLeish didn't do a piss poor job at motivating the team. He also didn't even make an effort to overhaul the defence. In fact he made it worse. Yes there were restrictions but these are vastly overstated.

You are ignoring my point on why we were set up so negatively. Bruce got the best out of Bent due to the correct service and i have already clearly explained why that didn't happen with us last season. Please be mindful within our previous debate one of the mods asked us to stop debating the same point over and over again as it was boring which i agree with!

Bent didn't have that many good players around him at the mighty Sunderland. There was absolutely no reason for us to be set up so negatively. I can't believe you're defending it! Fair enough if we had a good defence but we didn't. Our defence was and still is our weakest area. One of the very few games where we did attack (coincidentally against Norwich in November) we actually played pretty well and won. Whenever he set us up negatively we often lost and rarely ever got close to winning.

As far as Gabby goes then we're agreed that he is not as potent, so your previous point about us being able to score more goals is invalid!

You seem to have missed the part where I said he's still a good player to have around the squad. He actually looked very good in McLeish's first couple of months.

N'Zogbia is repeating the same form in pre season as he was last season and i refer you to the above point concerning Gabby!

Well let's wait until the actual season shall we?

Oh, and who bought N'Zogbia for nigh on £10m? St Alex.

If you read my post again concerning Ireland you will see that i stated he was our best player last season and WAS ABLE to to play his natural game even though my main point was, is his effectiveness and performances worth the wages?

I do agree that he isn't worth the wages (yet) but you're completely missing the point - a front four of Gabby, Ireland, N'Zogbia and Bent should not be scoring the SECOND LEAST amount of goals in the division.

I totally disagree about your assumption concerning Keane that when he was in the team we dire to watch and ultra negative. Did you actually watch the games he played in? We changed our system to accommodate him and played some very attractive football as our passing was more to feet than hoof. We weren't Barca but our performances did improve and thats my point!

Lol attractive football? Don't know who you were watching. We were still exceedingly shit and negative, just slightly less so.

No i said we finished where we did due to having a poor squad of players. I never stated, or implied that McLeish did a good job and here we have another example Mantis of you trying to put words into other poster's mouths when they quite obviously haven't been stated in the posts. This is quite annoying and something you should get away from. Debate on what has been stated not what you think is being implied!

You said yourself where we finished was about right for the squad we had (which is rubbish by the way). That means that you think McLeish did a fair job. I'm not putting words into your mouth at all, I'm just grasping the implications of your words which you haven't really done. Either you think we finished where we did because the squad was poor and there was nothing McLeish could do (which would also mean that McLeish did a fair job) or you think we underachieved and finished in a poor position for the squad we had (which would mean that McLeish did a poor job).

Lambert's not only changing the defence Mantis is he? He's also purchased a midfielder as well so he is not just concentrating on defence. Another point in your debate which is invalid.

I never said he was focusing solely on the defence, I just said he's trying to improve the defence. Another part of my post which you have not read correctly and have resorted to childish jibes.

Norwich are currently a better team than us because they finished higher up the table. I note you have stated that we beat Norwich when we first played them so by your own logic that makes McLeish a better manager than Lambert, certainly earlier in the season. Doesn't really work that Mantis does it?

Finishing above someone does not automatically mean you have a better squad. Managers play a big part and some managers can get the best out of a limited squad (e.g. Lambert) where as others fail miserably and end up finishing below teams despite some of the teams above them having worse squads (e.g. McLeish).

No, that wouldn't necessarily make McLeish a better manager because there's more to football than just one game! Your logic is completely insane. Norwich finished above us last season despite having a poorer squad because they had a better manager. What is so hard to comprehend about that?

It's astounding that after how poorly McLeish did people are still willing to defend him. Would even go as far as to say he's overrated on here sometimes.

[jim]

Please lord not the Milner shit again

This.

Even if he was to become available he wouldn't come back and will have far better options.

[jacketspuds]

Why would Lambert come here if he had just £6m or so to spend? I have to hope that Lambert is just taking his time and assessing who he wants both coming in and leaving.

Why spend £3m on an unknown RB if the budget was only double that?

[TrentVilla]

Because he needed a RB and that was the one he wanted or the best he could afford.

I've no idea how much Lambert has to spend this summer but given all the noises coming out of the club via McLeish towards the end of the season it would be rather surprising if he has a substantial budget to play with.

We will have to wait and see I guess but I don't think just because we got Lambert it automatically means he has a large transfer budget at his disposal.

[Pilchard]

Why would Lambert come here if he had just £6m or so to spend?

This is the only thing giving me any hope that the squad will be improved. We were lied to by Krulak and Falkner last year, and as each day goes by it feels like Falkner was bullshitting this summer.

Just give us the truth - if that's or lot then tell us. (and start to look to sell up).

The squad isn't premier league quality and the teams around us are much better this season.

[Foxy1]

Because he needed a RB and that was the one he wanted or the best he could afford.

I've no idea how much Lambert has to spend this summer but given all the noises coming out of the club via McLeish towards the end of the season it would be rather surprising if he has a substantial budget to play with.

We will have to wait and see I guess but I don't think just because we got Lambert it automatically means he has a large transfer budget at his disposal.

But you have to wonder why Lambert took the job if the financial constraints are really that tight.

[Tayls]

Why would Lambert come here if he had just £6m or so to spend? I have to hope that Lambert is just taking his time and assessing who he wants both coming in and leaving.

Why spend £3m on an unknown RB if the budget was only double that?

He hasn't had 6 million, he's had about £8.5million and a freebie in Holman. (though not his choice)

He wouldn't have just come here based on the summer transfer kitty available. What about the fact this is an opportunity to manage Aston Villa, a step up from where he was before, and I'm assuming, a better salary than what he was on previously.

[sonic_bouma]

Because he needed a RB and that was the one he wanted or the best he could afford.

I've no idea how much Lambert has to spend this summer but given all the noises coming out of the club via McLeish towards the end of the season it would be rather surprising if he has a substantial budget to play with.

We will have to wait and see I guess but I don't think just because we got Lambert it automatically means he has a large transfer budget at his disposal.

But you have to wonder why Lambert took the job if the financial constraints are really that tight.

you don't really have to wonder that much....

he has a good track records of working on a shoestring and getting players to over perform....

we are a massive club compared to Norwich and maybe he fancied his chances of pushing us further up the table with little money...whatever way you look at it we are a step up....

maybe Randy has said he can have 5m this year, get us up the table and you'll get more next year...we just don't know do we....

all these people saying "Lambert wouldn't have come here if he didn't have money to spend" are being very naive IMO and underestimating how much of a huge managerial move it was for PL to come here

[Mantis]

Think people just need to relax and be patient.

[sonic_bouma]

Why would Lambert come here if he had just £6m or so to spend? I have to hope that Lambert is just taking his time and assessing who he wants both coming in and leaving.

Why spend £3m on an unknown RB if the budget was only double that?

He hasn't had 6 million, he's had about £8.5million and a freebie in Holman. (though not his choice)

He wouldn't have just come here based on the summer transfer kitty available. What about the fact this is an opportunity to manage Aston Villa, a step up from where he was before, and I'm assuming, a better salary than what he was on previously.

exactly...

why does Moyes stay at Everton year after year with bugger all money? surely he would want to move wouldn't he?

No, its because he is a perfect fit for that club and he recognises he is good at what he does...

i think PL is very simialr in this regard

[jim]

Because he needed a RB and that was the one he wanted or the best he could afford.

I've no idea how much Lambert has to spend this summer but given all the noises coming out of the club via McLeish towards the end of the season it would be rather surprising if he has a substantial budget to play with.

We will have to wait and see I guess but I don't think just because we got Lambert it automatically means he has a large transfer budget at his disposal.

But you have to wonder why Lambert took the job if the financial constraints are really that tight.

Could be the size if his contract?

[PandaMac]

Think people just need to relax and be patient.

This. I mean the window hasn't shut yet and the season's not begun.

[jacketspuds]

Why would Lambert come here if he had just £6m or so to spend? I have to hope that Lambert is just taking his time and assessing who he wants both coming in and leaving.

Why spend £3m on an unknown RB if the budget was only double that?

He hasn't had 6 million, he's had about £8.5million and a freebie in Holman. (though not his choice)

He wouldn't have just come here based on the summer transfer kitty available. What about the fact this is an opportunity to manage Aston Villa, a step up from where he was before, and I'm assuming, a better salary than what he was on previously.

Probably closer to 6m as he has also sold Collins for 2m. Anyway, my fingers are crossed that we see more players come in as we certainly need it.