Isa Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Newcastle and Swansea are also below us. So by your logic we have better a midfield then them also? Hull are above us, so they clearly have a superior midfield to us? Moronic argument... As the use of the phrase "on paper" when discussing footballers. Not really. 'On paper' is used to mean they are judged overall as opposed to just current form. Manchester United have a better squad then Southampton on paper despite being behind then in the table for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Newcastle and Swansea are also below us. So by your logic we have better a midfield then them also? Hull are above us, so they clearly have a superior midfield to us? Moronic argument... Ironic considering your profile pic but hey thats another story. My point here is you constantly state we have one of the worst midfields, you then name Sunderland and list down their midfielders to try and do a bit of point-scoring, now explain if you can how their midfield is 'superior' to ours? So would you take any of their midfielders and put them into ours? Like I said our midfield isn't the greatest but your making it sound like we have a Championship midfield. Well I don't really see what my avatar has to do with anything firstly? Secondly, you've clearly missed the part where I said 'possibly' and 'on paper' in regards to Sunderland which means that they were not one of the teams mentioned who I thought were definitely superior to ours. Even if we dismissed Sunderland, there are many other teams on my list, thus in my eyes making our midfield one of the worst in the division. Sunderland are certainly the most disputable team on my list but I still included them on my list as I felt the argument could be made (as stated above) that they have better midfield options then us. My argument is not whether our midfield is good, is whether its one of the worst, which is clearly not the case. The problem in itself isn't the midfield anyway, its the fact we play two strikers on the wings which is where our creativity should come from. If you go through the midfields of the other sides, they are hardly creating huge amounts or scoring goals. Why is this 'clearly not the case'? Because we're 10th after 7 games played? Positions at this stage of the season mean very little. Certainly not enough to make cast-iron judgements. Halfway through the season maybe but not now. What makes your original argument more laughable is that if we were in the bottom three now you'd be one of the first to remind us how early in the season it is and how we shouldn't rush to any conclusions. Finally, there is no set position as to where creativity should come from but usually any team playing 4-3-3 has at least one of those midfielders who is expected to contribute offensively and be involved in most attacks. We aren't in the bottom 3 so why would I need to remind you how early in the season it is? The fact is we have played Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City oh and that team Newcastle who have a far supeior midfield to us, and we are mid-table. No doubt if we were in the bottom 3, you would be banging on about how bad we are, how bad our midfield is, how we are rubbish. Not once have I stated that our midfield is Barcelona esque, I am clearly pointing out it is far from one of the worst midfields in this division. Generally we are on par with a lot of clubs, but you seem to have a downer about the club anyway so really no point debating with someone with his eyes shuts, or possibly never gets to games, instead makes stupid statements on VT. You go on about creativity from the midfield 3, in those teams you mention who scores 5 to 10 goals plus and creates chances in that Sunderland midfield. What about in that great WBA team? The formation we play our creativity needs to come from those that play in those front 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Newcastle and Swansea are also below us. So by your logic we have better a midfield then them also? Hull are above us, so they clearly have a superior midfield to us? Moronic argument... As the use of the phrase "on paper" when discussing footballers. Not really. 'On paper' is used to mean they are judged overall as opposed to just current form. Manchester United have a better squad then Southampton on paper despite being behind then in the table for example. Answer me this then hypothetically, who in Sunderlands or even Fulham's side would actually improve our midfield, 'On Paper' as thats how you seem to judge football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 The point is that you are concluding that because we have had a respectable start after 7 games that somehow proves we must therefore not have one of the worst midfields in the division. Jumping on a respectable start after 7 games is no different to jumping on a bad start after 7 games. Secondly, you clearly don't understand how 4-3-3 works if you believe there is no onus on the midfield to provide any creativity. Just because the general way we play it is to pass to one of the forward three and hope they come up with something, that doesn't mean it is the way that most teams play it. We play it with a counter-attacking mindset which is why it is more effective away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) Where did I say there is no onus on the midfield 3? What I am saying which you fail to understand the majority of creativity comes from those behind the main striker. I haven't concluded anything based on 7 games, in fact i am arguing the point we do not have one of the worst midfields in this league, and still you are failing to answer who from Sunderland or Fulham would you have that are any better than what we have in midfield. On your second point you state I don't understand how a formation works, do you work for a football club or have honours or coaching badges to claim knowing how formations work or is it your experience of Football Manager. None of us understand how formations work, we have an opinion and thats all. Edited October 8, 2013 by SikhInTrinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Although they are nothing special, it could be argued that the likes of Parker, Sidwell, Gardner, Larsson and Ki would improve our midfield. As also you seem to have misunderstood, if you go back to my original list, you'll see I said 'possibly Fulham and Sunderland' which means that I am not certain they have better midfielders but that the argument can be made for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Although they are nothing special, it could be argued that the likes of Parker, Sidwell, Gardner, Larsson and Ki would improve our midfield. As also you seem to have misunderstood, if you go back to my original list, you'll see I said 'possibly Fulham and Sunderland' which means that I am not certain they have better midfielders but that the argument can be made for that. Trolololololololololololololololololoololol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) Edited October 8, 2013 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 A testament to how poor I consider our midfield to be that I'd even dare to make such a comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) when Cattermole is in your list then your argument is lost He's hardly any worse then Sylla though is he? Both good off the ball and not particularly good on it. Sorry got to laugh at this. I won't even ask how you think that list of midfielders are any better than what we have. Edited October 8, 2013 by SikhInTrinity 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 when Cattermole is in your list then your argument is lost He's hardly any worse then Sylla though is he? Both good off the ball and not particularly good on it. Sorry got to laugh at this. I won't even ask how you think that list of midfielders are any better than what we have. Well mainly because I don't consider Westwood to be the new Michael Carrick or Sylla to be the new Yaya Toure. All of our midfielders other then Delph are mediocre at best in my opinion Anyway, let's return to this around Christmas which will be a much better barometer of how good our midfield is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 when Cattermole is in your list then your argument is lost He's hardly any worse then Sylla though is he? Both good off the ball and not particularly good on it. Sorry got to laugh at this. I won't even ask how you think that list of midfielders are any better than what we have. Well mainly because I don't consider Westwood to be the new Michael Carrick or Sylla to be the new Yaya Toure. All of our midfielders other then Delph are mediocre at best in my opinion Anyway, let's return to this around Christmas which will be a much better barometer of how good our midfield is... But the list from Sunderland aren't mediocre, but as you say we will visit this back in Xmas and no doubt you will revel if our team isn't doing well in pointing to the midfield being the worst as you would have done now if we were in the bottom 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 when Cattermole is in your list then your argument is lost He's hardly any worse then Sylla though is he? Both good off the ball and not particularly good on it. Sorry got to laugh at this. I won't even ask how you think that list of midfielders are any better than what we have. Well mainly because I don't consider Westwood to be the new Michael Carrick or Sylla to be the new Yaya Toure. All of our midfielders other then Delph are mediocre at best in my opinion Anyway, let's return to this around Christmas which will be a much better barometer of how good our midfield is... But the list from Sunderland aren't mediocre, but as you say we will visit this back in Xmas and no doubt you will revel if our team isn't doing well in pointing to the midfield being the worst as you would have done now if we were in the bottom 3. And I'll also eat my words if the team and the midfield are doing well then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermon Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 In my opinion I do think our midfield is slightly poor. Westwood, KEA, Sylla don't have enough. They won't dictate the midfield nor will they spark any great deal of creativity. I acknowledge what theyve done thus far but in order to push I think our midfield needs to be injected with some more quality or as Jamie Redknapp would say "stardust" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 In my opinion I do think our midfield is slightly poor. Westwood, KEA, Sylla don't have enough. They won't dictate the midfield nor will they spark any great deal of creativity. I acknowledge what theyve done thus far but in order to push I think our midfield needs to be injected with some more quality or as Jamie Redknapp would say "stardust" please dont quote jamie redknapp. it will ruin any point your trying to make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTTERDAM1982 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Alongside Hoddle you played Roberts, alongside Cowans you played Bremner, alongside Zidane you played Deschamps.Sylla is our "water carrier", and hes good at it, we need to find the footballer to play alongside him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I like Westwood and appreciate what he offers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) All of our midfielders other then Delph are mediocre at best in my opinion Edited October 8, 2013 by praisedmambo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Delph stands out head and shoulders above the rest of our midfielders, and I find the others a rather unexciting, uninspiring lot. El Ahmadi shows occasional flashes, but that's it. Now I may be missing something, but I think they are really only good squad players, and we really need to spend decent money on an attacking mid and a defensive mid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I like Westwood and appreciate what he offers... Which is true to an extent. I do appreciate what he offers on the ball and have always said that he would be great if we were a possession team. That doesn't change the fact that he is a mediocre player much like Leon Britton is. Also it should be beared in mind that I had to be more diplomatic with my rhetoric back then as Westwood was untouchable in most people's eyes at the beginning of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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