Zatman Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 i was actually replying to TRS-T who said England were a big team as they are one of few European teams to win World Cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 22, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2012 Ah, my humble apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Apparently Muller, Podolski and Gomez have all been rested for tonight's game. I hope they come unstuck, I really do (only for England's sake, otherwise I'd quite like to see them win it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 No Problem but for me England along with Portugal, Russia and up to 5 years ago Spain were in a group of nations that are light-heavyweights who have potential but really should be regulars at top end of tournament. facts are except 1990 all England best performance in tournaments were at home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 The reason why I say Portugal deserve to be classed as one of the top nations of Europe is because there is still this "oh didnt they do well" attitude towards them. In the same way people talk about african or asian teams when they do well in world cups. That kind of comment would of been acceptable in 2000, but after what they have done in the past 12 years, we should not have that kind of attitude towards them anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I'd class Russia, Greece, Turkey, Croatia, Czech Republic, USA, Mexico, Ivory Coast, Ghana, South Korea, Japan, Uruguay etc as light-heavyweights. Argentina and Brazil heavyweights along with the aforementioned 7 from Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packoman Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Uruguay are currently ranked 2nd in the FIFA rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 England have definitely underachieved especially in the last 10 years with the players available. I think England being an international power house, as i translate it is more to do with the money in our football, and the amount of interest we generate because of the Premier League rather than how good the England team is. Are England the 5th best team in the world probably not (might be 3rd after the tournament), but we are certainly top 6 in Europe, i just think Spain and Germany are so far above the rest of us we think we're shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 22, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2012 Another good gauge of a heavyweight is how they are regarded within finals competitions. England and Portugal have been known to limp through qualification for tournaments but as soon as they make it, even outside their own betting market, they usually become one of the favourites to win the thing. Russia is a decent shout though. They would be the top side outside the usual 7 within Europe and I predict with a decent coach this next generation of Belgians will be another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Not sure on England. I just don't ever really fancy us to beat anyone better than ourselves. When was the last time we came out on top against a really good side during an international tournament. Argentina 2002? They were very poor that year, so perhaps you could say Holland 1996? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 22, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2012 Well the Italy game will be fascinating. Two 'heavyweights' who are both dark horses behind ze Chermans and Spanish for the tourney outright. I wonder will Italy stick with their 3-5-2 or put 4 at the back to stifle a potential aerial attack. Their formation will tell us how much they respect the English threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Not sure on England. I just don't ever really fancy us to beat anyone better than ourselves. When was the last time we came out on top against a really good side during an international tournament. Argentina 2002? They were very poor that year, so perhaps you could say Holland 1996? At the same time we dont lose many either. You look at our tournaments since 96 and how we went out. Euro 96. Semi finals penalties WC 98. Second round penalties Euro 2000, we were shite group stages WC 2002, Quarter final, 2-1 loss to eventual winners Brazil Euro 2004, Quarter final penalties WC 2006, Quarter final penalties Euro 2008 DNQ WC 2010 second round drubbing by Germany. So in the last 7 tournaments we've qualified for we've lost 5 games, and 2 of them were in Euro 2000 when we were shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 i think if portugal win it with madrid winning the league and messi winning just the cup then it'll be close, i still prefer messi, i think he's a better player and id still argue that last night summed ronaldo up, 2 flashes of absolute brilliance with the goal and hitting the post alongside around 12 other shots (some of them ridiculous) a couple of stupid free kicks that he smashes nowhere near goal (he's almost as tedious as "beckham territory") at least 2 10 minute periods where things werent going his way and he looked switched off and that classic ronaldo moment of his skipping across the pitch waving his arms swearing because a pass was slightly over hit he's a grade A **** rocket polisher and thats why any day of the week id vote for messi This is what makes him great though, the willingness to do everything another player wouldn't dream of. Numerous attempts on goal from insane angles, but the man scores the most goals alongside Messi. And he is the one player on earth who scores the most beautiful goals. Messi too scores great goals, but they are always very similar. Some free-kicks and shots here and there, but Ronaldo will always deliver rockets from free-kicks every season, backheels, bicycle-kicks etc. Just look at the goal against Arsenal in the Champions League, the one against Porto, I could go on and on. Grade A rocket polisher you say? How much of that is based on pure envy ? People would say the same thing about Messi, but he looks like an 8 year old dwarf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Not sure on England. I just don't ever really fancy us to beat anyone better than ourselves. When was the last time we came out on top against a really good side during an international tournament. Argentina 2002? They were very poor that year, so perhaps you could say Holland 1996? At the same time we dont lose many either. You look at our tournaments since 96 and how we went out. Euro 96. Semi finals penalties - WC 98. Second round penalties Euro 2000, we were shite group stages WC 2002, Quarter final, 2-1 loss to eventual winners Brazil Euro 2004, Quarter final penalties WC 2006, Quarter final penalties Euro 2008 DNQ WC 2010 second round drubbing by Germany. So in the last 7 tournaments we've qualified for we've lost 5 games, and 2 of them were in Euro 2000 when we were shite. That's a good response actually. Perhaps if we were good at penalties, we'd actually have achieved something. Either way though, I'd still say Holland were the last top side that we actually managed to beat in a tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Not sure on England. I just don't ever really fancy us to beat anyone better than ourselves. When was the last time we came out on top against a really good side during an international tournament. Argentina 2002? They were very poor that year, so perhaps you could say Holland 1996? At the same time we dont lose many either. You look at our tournaments since 96 and how we went out. Euro 96. Semi finals penalties - WC 98. Second round penalties Euro 2000, we were shite group stages WC 2002, Quarter final, 2-1 loss to eventual winners Brazil Euro 2004, Quarter final penalties WC 2006, Quarter final penalties Euro 2008 DNQ WC 2010 second round drubbing by Germany. So in the last 7 tournaments we've qualified for we've lost 5 games, and 2 of them were in Euro 2000 when we were shite. That's a good response actually. Perhaps if we were good at penalties, we'd actually have achieved something. Either way though, I'd still say Holland were the last top side that we actually managed to beat in a tournament. And we've lost to Brazil, Germany and France in games other than in Euro 2000. We deserve a bit of luck, but only 96 and 2004 do i think we could have gone on to win if we were successful at penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Messi is better to watch I think, but Ronaldo's goals for the most part are far better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 We have beaten Germany, France, Spain, Portugal and Argentina more times than they have beaten us. Not too shabby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Uruguay are currently ranked 2nd in the FIFA rankings. I know and I know that they have won 2 World Cups. But I don't regard Uruguay in the same regard as Brazil & Argentina. Perhaps a bit harsh but Uruguay are a small country and if you look at the last 5 World Cups, Uruguay have only been present at 2 of them. Definitely 3rd in South America though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 22, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2012 Yeah Uruguay is having a purple period. Their pool of players would struggle to keep them at that level all the time. They're damn good to watch at the moment though. I like when countries have golden generations and shake up the establishment for a while. Albeit to a lesser degree, I expect Iceland to do that now. Their U21s from a few years back are now seniors and certainly won't be the pushover that they've been for a long time. Sigurdsson is the most well known of the new crop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copey11 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I think England is certainly historically a heavyweight, but needs to be very careful in the coming years as I think there is a gap widening between them and some of the other heavyweights, and a gap closing between them and some of the light heavyweights referred to above. Right now England is playing a style that more closely resembles that of the light heavyweights, while the other Euro powers are certainly moving to a more dynamic style. Even Italy has at least paid lip service to becoming a more possession attacking style than in years past. Klinsman is definitely trying to move the US in that direction, primarily in order to give the younger generations (under 16) a more dynamic model to follow than the old American fitness and try real hard Bradley/Arena days. The young English generation really needs to perform in the next years. If England doesn't have some success soon they will be looking like a tier 1B footballing nation. And the ability to possess the ball and attack more is certainly the way to go about it (I think Capello was trying to get the team playing a more dynamic way, just didn't have the horses). The good news is that the younger English players can do this. Wilshere, Cleverley, Sturridge, Welbeck, Young, Johnson, Walker, Smalling, Jones, etc. all have ball skills, pace, and an attacking mentality. Note: possession and attacking football does not necessarily mean current Spanish style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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