All-Purpose Religion Thread

[PussEKatt]

What about cults such as the Church of Scientology and dare I say it Jehova witnesses?

They are the worst of the lot.What about that mess at Waco Texas.

Adult`s that join cults must be one sandwich short of a picnic.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

What about cults such as the Church of Scientology and dare I say it Jehova witnesses?

It's a bit like comparing bullets of different sizes, they effectively all kill you but with different names. They are all as bad as each other, the fact that more than 1 exists tells us what we need to know about Bod...I mean god.

[mjmooney]

I agree with the above.Relegion should be an option and not forced upon anyone.Unfortunately, there are a few relegions where their faith is the be all and end all of everything,and their whole life revolves around it.

It's too late then, kids are brainwashed by their so called parents long before they enter school. To prey on the young and defenseless like this is horrible but expected as they are the only humans on the planet that will believe them, sad but true. Are we not all guilty by letting this happen every day to kids around us?

We literally cannot stop that, nor should we try, it's going too far.

What we can do is teach kids to think for themselves once they enter the school system. It won't always be effective, but it will in many cases.

To borrow the godbotherers' language for a moment, from there on it's a battle for childrens' souls (read: minds).

[LoughboroughLion]

If the religious ideas are learnt and balanced against the beliefs of say, Richard Dawkins and other points of view, I think it can be very useful.

Atheism is the lack of belief (in god(s)). I guess the atheist part of your course was a little light if you came away thinking that Dawkins' atheism is a belief.

My reference to Richard Dawkins was regarding his writings on things such as miracles and religious expirience. I accept he is an atheist, but not sure where that came into my original post? My point being if students learn the religious teachings on subjects such as miracles and their meanings, but then this is compared to the views of other philosopher who completely disagree with miracles happening, it can be beneficial to creating a good rounded opinion that the students can form for themselves.

[legov]

they are the only humans on the planet that will believe them

Sorry Neil, but that's just not true.

Plenty of converts to the Abrahamic religions, particularly in this part oof the world.

[Rodders]

**** hated re in school

I just got a bit casual with the gcse and talking about the easter bunny and santa claus in typical sarcastic 15 year old kid way, plus a few ott statements like saying those who insist on teaching one doctrine ought to be shot.

Still got a C somehow, although that's tempered by the RE teacher had never given anything lower than a B before I came along. :trophy:

he was a decent sort, religious bias aside though, and later on I was a bit guilty I'd smudged his records somewhat, but it was SUCH a boring class and having spent the whole school life at schools where there's religious assemblies in the morning and even occasional sunday services - complete with sunday uniform :vomit: x a googleplex - that was me in full on rebellion mode. Which is admittedly rather weak, relatively speaking.

[regular_john]

What about cults such as the Church of Scientology and dare I say it Jehova witnesses?

What's the difference between a cult and a religion? Numbers? Tax exempt status?

[HolteEndRob]

The world would be a much better place if there was none of this religion bullshit. Once you die, you die, that's it! Gone forever! The world revolved for a long time before you were here and it will continue to do so when you're gone. Religion was created to try to stop people being scared to die and to try and convince them to be good.

Do you think these terrorists would still want to do bad shit if they knew there were no virgins waiting for them? Would there even be things such as terrorism if there was no religion? I know I'm rambling but I can't be the only one on here that thinks like that, surely? I probably could have worded thing better too!

For the record, if you are religious then that's fine. Religion is not for me at all but I never discourage anyone else from their personal beliefs.

[LoughboroughLion]

The world would be a much better place if there was none of this religion bullshit.

Religion was created to try to stop people being scared to die and to try and convince them to be good.

I disagree with your top statement, because of your second. For me, this is one of the reasons I am positive about the presence of religion. I can't talk for other religions, but Christianity (on the whole) teaches a good set of values, that if we all lived by, we would be a little better off.

[StanBalaban]

The world would be a much better place if there was none of this religion bullshit.

Religion was created to try to stop people being scared to die and to try and convince them to be good.

I disagree with your top statement, because of your second. For me, this is one of the reasons I am positive about the presence of religion. I can't talk for other religions, but Christianity (on the whole) teaches a good set of values, that if we all lived by, we would be a little better off.

That's not true though is it. Cherry-picked Christianity teaches a good set of values, but as human beings we have the ability to do just that - cherry pick the good from the irrelevant, outdated and sometimes brutal parts of the religion.

Surely that demonstrates that you don't need the religion in order to have the values.

[LoughboroughLion]

We can pick the values we wish to live by, I agree with you StanBalaban. But would people live by them if not promoted by religion. While some are outdated, such as those found in Leviticus, the foundation of our laws are mostly present in the scriptures of Christianity. If those scriptures never existed and didn't influence us, would our moral compasses differ? It's an interesting one, and we won't find out. I suppose in one way, if you look at those civilisations never influenced by western philosophy, you can see they contain different values. Better or worse ones? We could discuss all day long.

[StanBalaban]

You kind of ask and answer your own question about the moral compass in a way. You point out that certain passages in the Bible are outdated, and in Leviticus in particular, prejudicial and sometimes brutal. Yet it is our inherent given ability as a human beings that has taught us to ignore these passages, so in effect, we're using our moral compasses to dissect the 'teachings'. In modern times you could argue that the moral compass exists partly inspite of religious mantra, as opposed to because of it.

In regards to promoting a decent way of life, does it need to be a religion to do that? If people agree that it was created to control the mass populous, then why does the faith in the word of god still exist.

Can parents not teach right from wrong to their kids without having to resort to joining a cult?

[Brumerican]

but Christianity (on the whole) teaches a good set of values, that if we all lived by, we would be a little better off.

:?

Doing "good" because you were told to isn't really good at all.

If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.

Albert Einstein

Religious morality is on very shaky ground IMO and it always bemuses me that it is held up as some moral standard . It is based on fear , greed and obedience yet is lauded as a positive ideal .

A non believer who does "good" because they have worked out for themselves that it makes the world a better place has a far greater grasp of morality than any believer who is following orders or seeks heaven/fears hell.

I mean really....Do you have to be told that killing each other is a bad thing ?

It's insane when you think about it .

[StanBalaban]

If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.

Albert Einstein

Religious morality is on very shaky ground IMO and it always bemuses me that it is held up as some moral standard . It is based on fear , greed and obedience yet is lauded as a positive ideal .

A non believer who does "good" because they have worked out for themselves that it makes the world a better place has a far greater grasp of morality than any believer who is following orders or seeks heaven/fears hell.

I mean really....Do you have to be told that killing each other is a bad thing ?

It's insane when you think about it .

Couldn't agree more.

[HolteEndRob]

If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.

Albert Einstein

Religious morality is on very shaky ground IMO and it always bemuses me that it is held up as some moral standard . It is based on fear , greed and obedience yet is lauded as a positive ideal .

A non believer who does "good" because they have worked out for themselves that it makes the world a better place has a far greater grasp of morality than any believer who is following orders or seeks heaven/fears hell.

I mean really....Do you have to be told that killing each other is a bad thing ?

It's insane when you think about it .

Couldn't agree more.

Same here.

[LoughboroughLion]

I mean really....Do you have to be told that killing each other is a bad thing? It's insane when you think about it .

And what has influenced you when you refer to it as 'insane', your parents, society, or possibly religion to some extent, whether you realise it or not? To use the example of Darrow and the case that saw him successfully defend two young men against the death penalty. He said they were 'compelled' to murder. In that circumstance, it is argued that the two young men believed murder to be acceptable. But you saying the concept of murder is insane shows how the human mind can create a separate set of morals for different people.

For this reason I see a set of core values very useful to society,whether that be religion or something completely different.

[Brumerican]

I mean really....Do you have to be told that killing each other is a bad thing? It's insane when you think about it .

And what has influenced you when you refer to it as 'insane', your parents, society, or possibly religion to some extent, whether you realise it or not? To use the example of Darrow and the case that saw him successfully defend two young men against the death penalty. He said they were 'compelled' to murder. In that circumstance, it is argued that the two young men believed murder to be acceptable. But you saying the concept of murder is insane shows how the human mind can create a separate set of morals for different people.

For this reason I see a set of core values very useful to society,whether that be religion or something completely different.

I didn't say that the concept of murder is insane. I said that having to be told that murder is "bad" is insane .

[LoughboroughLion]

For what it's worth, I actually agree with most of the above tbh, I don't believe in the vast majority of Christianity, and particularly Catholicism, because it's far too influenced by man and not a 'superior being', as suggested. That said, I disagree with the writings of people like Marx and Freud who suggest it has been developed to suppress people, and that it is 'neurosis of the mind'. But nor to I agree with the Pope, that it should be followed word for word. I think the answer lies somewhere in the middlebrow the two, and religion is useful for some to a certain extent.

[chrisp65]

I went all Methodist Socialist Vegetarian around about 1984.

Hence the Methodist propoganda earlier in the thread?

Come on, bit of an open secret which side of the fence I'm on, that's hardly detective work. At least I've never tried to push lettuce on anyone.

Agree with the banning of 'faith' schools. The idea of needing to pretend to be Catholic or whatever to access decent education is just wrong.

Pick n mix the bits you like from life religion and politics, rationalise out the out dated bits or bits that don't suit your lifestyle and crack on.

[Brumerican]

For what it's worth, I actually agree with most of the above tbh, I don't believe in the vast majority of Christianity, and particularly Catholicism, because it's far too influenced by man and not a 'superior being', as suggested. That said, I disagree with the writings of people like Marx and Freud who suggest it has been developed to suppress people, and that it is 'neurosis of the mind'. But nor to I agree with the Pope, that it should be followed word for word. I think the answer lies somewhere in the middlebrow the two, and religion is useful for some to a certain extent.

I agree that religion certainly had its use and does indeed provide a form of comfort for those who find reality a bit too cold and uncomfortable.

You can't deny though that it has been used to control the masses over the centuries . It teaches that being poor and obedient is a virtue and what better way is there to stop the poor from robbing the rich than 24 hour omniscient CCTV . Religion was the ultimate crime deterrent and it was free . It's actually a work of genius in that respect .

As for religions being influenced far too much by man instead of the "supreme being" well I feel a little bemused by this. In what world would you describe someone who condones rape, commits planet wide genocide , is homophobic , sexist and is schizophrenic at best , as being "supreme" ???? :?

There is some good insightful teachings in the bible but these things existed before Christianity . The golden rule (Treat people how you in turn wish to be treated ) can be found in asian writings long before the bible was being written .

Just because there is "good" in the holy books it doesn't automatically follow that religion is good . In fact if you have to lie to yourself in order to be good then for me that can only be a negative thing .

Religion has had positive effects on humanity for sure but the negatives far outweigh them . It is divisive nonsense that isn't based on any real evidence . It is a huge hurdle to humanity becoming one with each other and it stifles intelligence . It's limited "usefulness" just isn't strong enough a justification for hanging on to it IMO.