Relegation - Merged

[brummybloke]

Apart from 60 mins against Norwich at VP is there a game we've dominated and won this season?

We requires two Keane wonder goals to beat Wolves, we hit Chelsea on the break at their place and Fulham we relied on a last minute fumble. So that's three of our seven wins that have been down to individual brilliance or luck rather than actually fully deserving it.

Any thoughts?

it is rare that a team will totally dominate another in the top division so expecting it time after timer i would say is very high expectations.

i would also say that most games are won on individual brilliance, a bit of luck or a scruffy goal so again i think your expectations are incredibly high

it doesnt mean you are wrong, but all i care about firstly is the results and secondly how we play

if the result does not go our way then i at least want us to have played decent

it cant happen each week and under this shower of shit it has happened very very rarely.

manager and his assistant take FULL responsibility

odd how after any win he says its down to his tactics and skill yet every shit result it is down to someone elses fault nothing to do with him

weak leadership, weak manager, weak tactics and his only saving grace is apparently he is a nice man? no he isnt he is a snivelling leech. if he had any decency he would have walked at christmas time to give a new person a fighting chance.

instead he keeps sucking the life out of the club, the fans, the bank account.

[brummybloke]

I was thinking about this a lot last night. I'm not sure relegation would be that bad if it meant getting rid of mcleish.

I think we'd come straight back up. Firstly if Lerner ever wanted to get his money back from selling the club he'd have to get it back in the prem so he'd have to spend money. I think the players we'd keep and the kids plus the ability to sign better players than anyone else in the league would be enough to see us bounce straight back up.

It hasn't caused newcastle major problems and maybe it would allow us to completely rebuild with a new approach. My only worry is who the **** head lerner would appoint.

I don't want it to happen, it pisses me off that for the last two seasons we have to worry about it but i'm just trying to think of positives with mcleish away from this club.

the problem there is newcastle still got 40k per game, which meant they still had decent revenue, they also had someone who was still putting money into the club.

we dont get 40k now unless it is one of 5 teams so we wouldnt have the money to do a 'newcastle'.

if we get relegated ( which it appears is what lerner wants judging by the shit decisions he has been making over the last 18 months) i dont see a way back for quite some time, there is also no cost cutting either

players on 30k are not going to leave if they are average players, players in the last year of their contracts will be gone no matter what.

you think bent will still be here? given? and even if they are, how will we pay their wages with 75% money coming in?

relegation = a total disaster for this club, something which could have been avoided quite easily by anyone with even half a brain.

[philgetaway]

Relegation would be the worse thing that could happen. You cant plan to 'do a Newcastle'.

Theres only so much planning you can do in Football, you just have to take your chances when they arrive, i.e. when sitting top of the league in January, buy and push for a title. When 10 points clear of 5th, don't buy Heskey.

Lets see where Newcastle finish next year shall we? Lets see where Swansea and Norwich finish next year when their players think/believe they're premiership players and stop playing every game like a cup final. Lets see how many away ends Norwich sell out in the second season, when they think theyre an established prem side again - less team support.

At the end of this season Heskey, Cueller, Ireland and a few others will go. If we still need to reduce wages after that we are totally screwed.

From the 1st June we will be an open canvas for a manager to mould the squad how he wants (granted on a limited budget). We can do this in the prem not the championship.

I dont trust Mccleish to do this. THe links with 6"9 Centre Forwards are worrying.

[VillaGoMarching]

Would be the death of us, Certain players wouldn't go into that league, and i doubt any player has a relegation clause for wages. We'd be ****. and Lerner would probably give Mcleish the chance to bring us back up, only problem is he's got no clue, no plan for the future, at the moment we're like a drifting ship in the ocean, no power, no engine, no rudder.

[dudevillaisnice]

If we get relegated (which looks likely) we won't come up at first time of asking in my opinion.

[Big_John_10]

if we get relegated ( which it appears is what lerner wants judging by the shit decisions he has been making over the last 18 months) i dont see a way back for quite some time, there is also no cost cutting either

players on 30k are not going to leave if they are average players, players in the last year of their contracts will be gone no matter what.

you think bent will still be here? given? and even if they are, how will we pay their wages with 75% money coming in?

We would lose some good players but i think most of the kids would perform well in the championship and the squad players we kept would also be good enough.

We would still be able to attract better players than any other team in the league. And lerner would have to spend. The guy is an idiot but even he knows that in order to get some of the money back he needs to sell us as a premiership club.

I think we would be straight back up.

[brummybloke]

if we get relegated ( which it appears is what lerner wants judging by the shit decisions he has been making over the last 18 months) i dont see a way back for quite some time, there is also no cost cutting either

players on 30k are not going to leave if they are average players, players in the last year of their contracts will be gone no matter what.

you think bent will still be here? given? and even if they are, how will we pay their wages with 75% money coming in?

We would lose some good players but i think most of the kids would perform well in the championship and the squad players we kept would also be good enough.

We would still be able to attract better players than any other team in the league. And lerner would have to spend. The guy is an idiot but even he knows that in order to get some of the money back he needs to sell us as a premiership club.

I think we would be straight back up.

i admire your optimisim, however we would be stuck with the ginger prince, the reason being " we want a manager with championship experience"

nothing will have changed for the good, everything would have changed for the worse.

[savosleftboot]

Key games for survival are Bolton, Sunderland & Stoke at home, Norwich, WBA away. 5-7 points from those should keep us up. Would rule out a point at Anfield or home to Spurs who have wobbled a bit.

[NurembergVillan]

Apart from 60 mins against Norwich at VP is there a game we've dominated and won this season?

We requires two Keane wonder goals to beat Wolves, we hit Chelsea on the break at their place and Fulham we relied on a last minute fumble. So that's three of our seven wins that have been down to individual brilliance or luck rather than actually fully deserving it.

Any thoughts?

it is rare that a team will totally dominate another in the top division so expecting it time after timer i would say is very high expectations.

i would also say that most games are won on individual brilliance, a bit of luck or a scruffy goal so again i think your expectations are incredibly high

Ok, I'll rephrase it. How many games have we fully deserved to win. The examples there were more 'phew' than 'wow' at the performance.

I can't think of many occasions where I've thought 'we created a host of chances, their keeper had a blinder' or 'they didn't threaten us much'. We've been scraping our points together more than truly deserving them.

It's been a year since we've come out of a game looking like 'a good side'.

[steve-67]

The problem is, we have championship standard players. Bannan, Herd, Lichaj, Gardner, Wiemann etc are also not ready for the rigours of week in week out Premiership football. The more experienced players like Ireland, N'Zogbia don't look too bothered. Collins, Heskey, Warnock and Hutton are very poor players. We've lost Petrov in very unfortunate circumstances and Dunne, Bent, Clark to injuries. Leaving only a couple of players actually good enough to play at this standard of football. If Villa drop in to the bottom three during this season, I sincerely think they'll lack the fight needed to get back out of it. Given that McLeish also seems to lack the ability to properly motivate his team. I am a concerned fan. If it doesn't happen this season then I think we'll start as favourites for relegation alongside any of the teams who get promoted.

[Big_John_10]

if we get relegated ( which it appears is what lerner wants judging by the shit decisions he has been making over the last 18 months) i dont see a way back for quite some time, there is also no cost cutting either

players on 30k are not going to leave if they are average players, players in the last year of their contracts will be gone no matter what.

you think bent will still be here? given? and even if they are, how will we pay their wages with 75% money coming in?

We would lose some good players but i think most of the kids would perform well in the championship and the squad players we kept would also be good enough.

We would still be able to attract better players than any other team in the league. And lerner would have to spend. The guy is an idiot but even he knows that in order to get some of the money back he needs to sell us as a premiership club.

I think we would be straight back up.

i admire your optimisim, however we would be stuck with the ginger prince, the reason being " we want a manager with championship experience"

nothing will have changed for the good, everything would have changed for the worse.

It would shocking if we were left with mcleish if we went down.

[McGregor1888]

Apart from 60 mins against Norwich at VP is there a game we've dominated and won this season?

We requires two Keane wonder goals to beat Wolves, we hit Chelsea on the break at their place and Fulham we relied on a last minute fumble. So that's three of our seven wins that have been down to individual brilliance or luck rather than actually fully deserving it.

Any thoughts?

it is rare that a team will totally dominate another in the top division so expecting it time after timer i would say is very high expectations.

i would also say that most games are won on individual brilliance, a bit of luck or a scruffy goal so again i think your expectations are incredibly high

Ok, I'll rephrase it. How many games have we fully deserved to win. The examples there were more 'phew' than 'wow' at the performance.

I can't think of many occasions where I've thought 'we created a host of chances, their keeper had a blinder' or 'they didn't threaten us much'. We've been scraping our points together more than truly deserving them.

It's been a year since we've come out of a game looking like 'a good side'.

All of this is classic losing mentality thinking.

I'm sure fans of other clubs could say: "How many games this season have we actually deserved to win?" I'm sure fans of other clubs have come out of games thinking:"If it wasn't for a moment of brilliance from player x we would never have won that."

Villa are no different from any other club and we can win, pull out wins and fight and scrap just like any other club. Stop thinking that we are some kind of special case of supreme shitness (which is nonsense). Stop thinking we are the only club in the league that flukes wins and has points that are totally undeserved. Like I say, this is classic negative thinking and loser mentality stuff.

Instead of dwelling on how rubbish and hopeless you believe Villa to be, simply get positive. Lift the lads - we have a very young squad at the moment - lift them, help them play to their potential...and just watch. These lads will win matches, earn points and scrap and fight. See the bigger picture - it's time for support. I have every confidence in our players.

[McGregor1888]

The problem is, we have championship standard players. Bannan, Herd, Lichaj, Gardner, Wiemann etc are also not ready for the rigours of week in week out Premiership football. The more experienced players like Ireland, N'Zogbia don't look too bothered. Collins, Heskey, Warnock and Hutton are very poor players. We've lost Petrov in very unfortunate circumstances and Dunne, Bent, Clark to injuries. Leaving only a couple of players actually good enough to play at this standard of football. If Villa drop in to the bottom three during this season, I sincerely think they'll lack the fight needed to get back out of it. Given that McLeish also seems to lack the ability to properly motivate his team. I am a concerned fan. If it doesn't happen this season then I think we'll start as favourites for relegation alongside any of the teams who get promoted.

Championship standard players? It's a miracle they've earned the points they've earned in the premier League then! The youngsters you mention are all very highly rated young lads within the game. Collins, Heskey, Warnock and Hutton are "very poor players"...well, they're all internationals too so they must have something about them.

I disagree with what you are saying. We have Premiership standard players who simply - for a whole variety of reasons - have had a very disjointed, haphazard season plagued by injury and lows in form. Get behind the lads and help them rediscover their form.

[sne]

Apart from 60 mins against Norwich at VP is there a game we've dominated and won this season?

We requires two Keane wonder goals to beat Wolves, we hit Chelsea on the break at their place and Fulham we relied on a last minute fumble. So that's three of our seven wins that have been down to individual brilliance or luck rather than actually fully deserving it.

Any thoughts?

it is rare that a team will totally dominate another in the top division so expecting it time after timer i would say is very high expectations.

i would also say that most games are won on individual brilliance, a bit of luck or a scruffy goal so again i think your expectations are incredibly high

Ok, I'll rephrase it. How many games have we fully deserved to win. The examples there were more 'phew' than 'wow' at the performance.

I can't think of many occasions where I've thought 'we created a host of chances, their keeper had a blinder' or 'they didn't threaten us much'. We've been scraping our points together more than truly deserving them.

It's been a year since we've come out of a game looking like 'a good side'.

All of this is classic losing mentality thinking.

I'm sure fans of other clubs could say: "How many games this season have we actually deserved to win?" I'm sure fans of other clubs have come out of games thinking:"If it wasn't for a moment of brilliance from player x we would never have won that."

Villa are no different from any other club and we can win, pull out wins and fight and scrap just like any other club. Stop thinking that we are some kind of special case of supreme shitness (which is nonsense). Stop thinking we are the only club in the league that flukes wins and has points that are totally undeserved. Like I say, this is classic negative thinking and loser mentality stuff.

Instead of dwelling on how rubbish and hopeless you believe Villa to be, simply get positive. Lift the lads - we have a very young squad at the moment - lift them, help them play to their potential...and just watch. These lads will win matches, earn points and scrap and fight. See the bigger picture - it's time for support. I have every confidence in our players.

Are you by any chance related to any of the people who played in the orchestra when the Titanic went down?

[KHV]

Most premier league players have relegation release clauses in their contracts. you can be sure most of our experienced players have this clause. if we go down it would be a disaster as we would lose about 8 players. if you throw in petrov, cuellar and heskey then we would need to replace 11 players if we went down. we would be ****.

[steve-67]

The problem is, we have championship standard players. Bannan, Herd, Lichaj, Gardner, Wiemann etc are also not ready for the rigours of week in week out Premiership football. The more experienced players like Ireland, N'Zogbia don't look too bothered. Collins, Heskey, Warnock and Hutton are very poor players. We've lost Petrov in very unfortunate circumstances and Dunne, Bent, Clark to injuries. Leaving only a couple of players actually good enough to play at this standard of football. If Villa drop in to the bottom three during this season, I sincerely think they'll lack the fight needed to get back out of it. Given that McLeish also seems to lack the ability to properly motivate his team. I am a concerned fan. If it doesn't happen this season then I think we'll start as favourites for relegation alongside any of the teams who get promoted.

Championship standard players? It's a miracle they've earned the points they've earned in the premier League then! The youngsters you mention are all very highly rated young lads within the game. Collins, Heskey, Warnock and Hutton are "very poor players"...well, they're all internationals too so they must have something about them.

I disagree with what you are saying. We have Premiership standard players who simply - for a whole variety of reasons - have had a very disjointed, haphazard season plagued by injury and lows in form. Get behind the lads and help them rediscover their form.

They are poor players, those in bold above. Just because they are internationals doesn't make them world beaters! We'll have to agree to disagree. I's also like you to read my post again. The emphasis is that McLeish cannot motivate his players, whether they are highly rated, ex-internationals or whatever. Villa lack the stomach for a fight, much of this comes from the Manager. The players who are highly rated are also not ready for a relegation fight.

I am absolutely behind the players, even though I don't rate them as highly as you. As for rediscovering their form, I'm not certain that many of them had any form to rediscover. Again, this comes down to my opinion about how good they are in the first place. You can be as optimistic as you like about the future, but you also need to look at the here and the now.

[danceoftheshamen]

As i feared we got "revenged" by Chelsea.. Sad how we actually lost the game twice mind you :?

This is all as i feared it would be.. those sides below us just had to find a bit of form at some point whilst we just seem to go from disaster to disaster.. Now we have lost our captain too.

I can honestly not remember such a horrid 2 season spell as a Villa fan in over 35 years of supporting them. It really has been soul destroying watching the slow death being played out before us & being able to do nothing about it as the clowns in charge make shocking decision after shocking decision.

So we enter the last phase.. All we can do is try our damndest to support the players to the 2 wins & couple of draws we need.. It can still be done but i do worry for us.. My 35 years of experience has me feeling this could be a relegation... It just feels all wrong

1. We have injuries or illness, many to the spine of our team

Dunne, Petrov & Bent, These are big players for us & all are out for the season.

2. We have apparanlty disinterested players

Nzog, Gabby, Warnock, Heskey, Ireland

3. We have other injuries with Clark & Hutton etc

4. We have vastly inexperienced players in most of the rest.

5. We have a manager who just seems to bring the worst out of our players & fans alilke.

6. We have an owner who has gone awol along with his sidekick Krulak.. Weird this as i thought military personnel had a "when the going gets tough" attitude not a "bury your head in the sand" one! It has now become clear why in Krulak's case..They clearly knew this was coming! Funny i never had Americans down as cowards.

We have some really critical games now obviously.. We can beat Bolton, Norwich & West Brom although all 3 will be equally loseable.. We can get draws aginst Stoke & Sunderland though we clearly have got nowhere near "enough" to get anything from the Liverpool, Man U or Spurs games in my opinion.. they are just too strong for our currently avaliable squad.

I guess the only crumbs of comfort are that we have played a couple of those "unwinnable" games & now have just 2 or 3 if you include Spurs left. then we have games against a few sides with little to play for in Sunderland, Norwich & WBA although the Baggies game will clearly be tough being a local derby etc.

That leaves Bolton.. Talk about a must win game!

We as fans can indeed do our bit.. We have a choice.. We can either meekly accept the inevitable or we can go generate some passion at Villa Park which may, just may infect the players. My fear is that passion may just have been quelled by the dull sterile football we have had to endure this season.

[Daweii]

Disinterested and Ireland? Are you kidding me? He's the only player in our side right now that week in week out plays like he loves the club. He's our best player and without him we wouldn't even have the option of drawing games right now.

[steve-67]

Disinterested and Ireland? Are you kidding me? He's the only player in our side right now that week in week out plays like he loves the club. He's our best player and without him we wouldn't even have the option of drawing games right now.

Yes, a bit harsh perhaps. I am happy to admit this. I hope he has the stomach for a fight as he'll need it. He's playing well.

[sne]

Lerner and Krulak have gone MIA, if and when they do show up they should be court-martialed for desertion.